Looking for relief of guilt

Mar 29, 2017
576
Hunter 30t 9805 littlecreek
I got a response on earlier post about power boats always want to pass sailboats over there bow because it's human nature. That's all well and fine but if they could be taught how nice it is on sailboat to be passed to stern ie free energy to push us forward. But anyhow I feel guilty for tearing up someone's boat proving my point the other weekend. I sail laser ,hobie cat and keel boats but on this day it was the cat. Sailing back mid channel here comes a pontoon boat out of a cove. I know he sees me because I here throttle increase. Now I'm halfway across this cove and on a good run. But in response to throttle up I turn down to pickup speed and close the gap. I see it's a young man and when close enough I remind him of rules. Or pretty much don't freekin hit me. Now I'm running out of water and getting nervous but then I here a pop and engine rev up. Feeling vindictive I tac away leaving young man on point. I hope it was a rental. Because I think I saw a rainbow on the water.
 
Jan 22, 2008
296
Islander Freeport, 41 Ketch Longmont, CO
Well, and not to start a big argument but, the key part of the rules of the road is that all skippers are responsible for taking all action necessary to avoid a collision, as the stand-on vessel when discussing this event, do leave out the part about turning down to pick up speed and closing the gap. You do have the right of way as a sailboat but, forcing the issue would cause the admiralty to find you partially at fault if there was a collision.

We all agree that many Power boaters don't know the rules of the road, if they are ignorant of those then they most likely don't know how to tell they are or are not on a collision course with another object. As knowledgeable and responsible sail boaters we need to realize this and do our part to educate as well as avoid putting ourselves into situations where they can do us harm. Unfortunately, they are often a much larger beast and moving with significant inertia and so will cause significant harm to both vessel and man when they do collide.

Fair winds,
 
  • Like
Likes: NotCook
Oct 1, 2007
1,856
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
From my experience, if I am the stand on vessel I never assume the burdened vessel knows or cares about the RoR, sail or power. So if I see a crossing developing early, I try to make maneuvers clarifying the situation so the burdened can keep doing what he is doing and we will have a safe crossing. I have been burned so many times by guys who wait way too long to send a signal that they understand they are burdened.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,041
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Isn't it just plain obnoxious to deliberately pursue a confrontation just to prove a point (wrongfully)? So basically a sailor gets into a pissing match with the driver of a pontoon boat, ignoring basic courtesy & even navigation rules, simply because the driver of a pontoon boat intended to speed up to pass in front of a sailboat. Pathetic … continue to feel ashamed, I say. :cool:
Next time, do better! We are all redeemable! :biggrin:
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,856
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Isn't it just plain obnoxious to deliberately pursue a confrontation just to prove a point (wrongfully)? So basically a sailor gets into a pissing match with the driver of a pontoon boat, ignoring basic courtesy & even navigation rules, simply because the driver of a pontoon boat intended to speed up to pass in front of a sailboat. Pathetic … continue to feel ashamed, I say. :cool:
Next time, do better! We are all redeemable! :biggrin:
One other thing I avoid is pissing someone off. In this day you never know when the angry guy might produce a weapon and shoot at you.
 
Dec 28, 2015
1,837
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
I'll exonerate your guilt. He knew less of the rules then you do.......and it was a party barge so......
 
Last edited:
Jan 7, 2011
4,723
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
A couple of Hail Mary’s and a Bloody Mary and you should be good (no offense to all of the good Catholics who read this).

Greg
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
When on a swift motor vessel, bypassing (well) ahead of a sailboat, you are passing him in the one place he can't possibly hit you from! Any other place and it is possible that the driver of the sailboat could, put himself in harm's way. And really I could care less if you want to surf my wake.
I find that ignorance especially apparent in the ditch. I used to deliver 6 gold plated sport fishermen up and down the coast every year, spring and fall Fla to NY or north. Most had the power to easily cruise at 35 knots, and outside the no wake zones (very few and far between back then) perfectly legal. Then I'll run up on a sailboat dawdling along at 5 knots. From a mile or so back I'll give the proper whistle signals and slowly decrease speed until I'm doing around 5 knots when I get to his stern. That's about as slow as I can go without using the trolling knobs, or bumping one engine or the other in and out of gear (really hard on those sorts of engines) and minimum wake.
Normally, not even a glance back, but if so, it's usually rather hate-filled. "Gee dude, it's not my fault I can make it from Miami to Norfolk in 4 days, sorry." Anyway, on he continues at 5 knots and there I am stuck behind him because I don't want to be rude and speed up and make a wake! 5 minutes, 10 and now I'm getting a bit frustrated. I call on the radio; nada.
Finally, if he won't slow down to make this more pleasant for himself, I've gotta speed up and get on my way. I pull as far away from him as I can get in the ditch and run her up to about 7.5 or 8 knots, obviously throwing A LOT more wake. He gets thrown around like a cork and most often my patience and attempt at courtesy is met with a middle finger, unbeknownst to him all at his fault. Had he slowed to idle for just a minute I could have slipped by at minimum wake and we all would have been happy. And I'm sure it resulted in another "rude motorboat captain" story in the next anchorage or marina. By late afternoon, it's really hard to slow down at all, because I know I'll be met with the same vitriol as I was by the first guy, so might just as well go by at speed.
I have encountered people like the OP several times over my career and sadly they rarely realize in time that I won't risk the lives of my passengers or the wellbeing of the vessel I'm commanding, so things usually turn out very poorly for them in a confined channel.
No matter what the rules say, common sense and a tiny bit of courtesy go a long way to making it so we can all use the water without incidents as posted above.
 
Aug 2, 2009
637
Catalina 315 Muskegon
" But in response to throttle up I turn down to pickup speed and close the gap. I see it's a young man and when close enough I remind him of rules."

Sounds like you were the stand on vessel, but you changed course instead of maintaining course and speed. Not sure what you're looking for here.
 
  • Like
Likes: jwing
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
I think he was looking for righteous vindication. He will have to hold himself accountable to doing better. Penance will help with the guilt.
 

jwing

.
Jun 5, 2014
503
ODay Mariner Guntersville
Well, and not to start a big argument but, the key part of the rules of the road is that all skippers are responsible for taking all action necessary to avoid a collision, as the stand-on vessel when discussing this event, do leave out the part about turning down to pick up speed and closing the gap. You do have the right of way as a sailboat but, forcing the issue would cause the admiralty to find you partially at fault if there was a collision.
This is a great example of the sailboat's-right-of-way fallacy. In this situation, as we understand it, the sailor's position was the stand-on vessel; his obligation was to maintain his course. The sailor did not have a right-of-way, he was not the right in altering his course in a way that closed the gap between the boats. It is time to give up the notion that sailboats have the right of way over motorboats.
 

jwing

.
Jun 5, 2014
503
ODay Mariner Guntersville
From my experience, if I am the stand on vessel I never assume the burdened vessel knows or cares about the RoR, sail or power. So if I see a crossing developing early, I try to make maneuvers clarifying the situation so the burdened can keep doing what he is doing and we will have a safe crossing. I have been burned so many times by guys who wait way too long to send a signal that they understand they are burdened.
Yes, if the stand-on vessel makes an obvious evasive maneuver before the give-way vessel adjusts, that is perfectly reasonable.

By the way, what is the signal that denotes an understanding of being the burdened vessel?
 
Last edited:
Oct 1, 2007
1,856
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Yes, if the stand-on vessel makes an obvious evasive maneuver before the give-way vessel adjusts, that is perfectly reasonable.

By the way, what is the signal that denotes an understanding of being the burdened vessel?
When I am burdened I alter course slightly to open up the crossing to make it clear to the the stand on that I will give way. For commercial vessels I hail them on 16 and 13 to make them aware I will give way, or to discuss the meeting such as "....see you on one whistle..."
 
  • Like
Likes: jwing
Aug 12, 2014
213
Universal Marine Montego 25 San Pedro, CA
We sail in a major commercial and recreational port (Port of Los Angeles) and this kind of stuff happens so frequently that personally, the only rule from my perspective even including other sailboats is that I am responsible for avoiding collisions at all costs.

Only when dealing with sailboats or professionally-run boats like the harbor pilots, fire boats, or tugs not towing anything and even then only in very straightforward crossing or overtaking situations, do I even consider the RoR. Especially in a 25-footer, I almost without exception give way, slow down etc. and I try to be very obvious about doing so.

My personal 2 cents. I'd think that it would be very situational in the Midwest or east coast where you could be in a channel, shoaled and/or shallow water, etc. I recognize the water isn't as vast and deep everywhere as it is where we are, or as busy in terms of commercial activity in the harbor and immediate vicinity outside of the LA Gate )(breakwater).