Looking For Mast Wiring Junction Box

[Windborne]

Good day all. I own a 1988 Newport 30 MKIII. I am trying to diagnose a problem with my Raymarine ST60 wind instrument. Long story short it works intermittently. I've tested the controller head on a friend's boat and it appears to work. I've tested the transducer per Raymarine's website and voltages appear within tolerance. Transducer wiring at the controller head has been checked and new spade connectors installed. So I am left wanting to examine the connections between the wires coming down the mast and running inside the boat. Thus my search for the elusive junction box.

The vessel has a deck stepped mast. There is no external conduit where wires are routed through the deck. Photos attached show the top of the compression post with a cast metal bracket attached to a molded fiberglass channel inside which, according to the original owner's manual, wires run to to the mast. There is no other obvious access panel. The bracket is about an inch in height, 2" across port/starboard and 3-1/4" fore/aft. It seems to me the junction box should be inside there.

Today I attempted to remove the bracket. I loosened lower and cap shrouds to ease the downward load of the mast and removed the screws. I could only get the bracket to budge by tapping it with a hammer firmly. Working slowing I got it to move about 1/4" before getting cold feet and backtracked. I became concerned about breaking the bracket or getting it out and not being able to get it back in. I saw no indication of an opening behind it but then I didn't move it out too far.

Does anyone know about the Newport 30 specifically or seen this kind of arrangement? I don't know what the junction box looks like or it's size but it doesn't look like there's much room behind that bracket if any.

Thanks for reading. Thoughts and expertise appreciated.

Len
Windborne
Newport 30 MKIII

 

[capta]

Sorry, I can't help you with your specific question, but we are brothers, in a way. Our St-60 does the same thing for no apparent reason, whenever it pleases. No rhyme, reason or logic to the fault.

 

[dlochner]

Try removing a ceiling panel. These are just cosmetic and not structural. Sorry can’t tell you how they’re attached.

 

[SG]

I thought the connection to the ST60 instruments have "home runs" without connections all the way to the CPU. Why do you think there is a junction box?

Do you have a junction box for your anchor and steaming lights?

 

[jssailem]

Isn't more likely that there is a plug together connection in the mast. You get to it when you lift the mast. You can test the connection with out lifting the mast and pulling the connection with an ohm meter and test for resistance. If it reads 1 you got a good connection.. If you need to lift the mast and pull the wires out you can likely find a marina that has a crane just for that purpose. But I would look as the simpler issue. Connections at the mast head. Connections at the display. The display, before I pulled the mast to check connections.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Isn't more likely that there is a plug together connection in the mast. You get to it when you lift the mast.

I agree. I have a deck stepped mast and all the wiring has to pass thru the roof into the mast where the connections are made. If you didn't have connectors in the mast, you wouldn't be able to remove the mast without cutting the cables. If the connectors were inside the boat, you wouldn't be able to remove the mast unless the hole that passes thru is large enough to pass connectors, in which case you would probably have a flood of water passing thru the mast into the boat every time it rains. You probably have wires and cables sealed up tight, which means the connectors have to be above deck and inside the mast.

 

[capta]

We have a deck stepped mizzen and there is a tube that goes through the deck up about 4" into the mast. All the wires run down this tube and through the compression post to terminal blocks at it's base, on a floor frame. There are two radars, a windgen, a hailer and a couple of antennas connected this way.
If my connections were inside the mast, and I had to stick my hand inside it while it was on a crane, I'd only do that once! I would immediately rewire it so all the wires could be disconnected BEFORE the mast was lifted.

 

[jssailem]

Not every boat is so prepared. Mine was not.
I ran the wires down from inside the mast through the mast step.

Then sown the exposed side of the compression post with a block to provide a way of releasing the wires should I need to remove the mast.

and installed a chase to cover the wires made by my friend @LeslieTroyer

 

[dlochner]

As others have said, the actual wire connections are probably inside the mast. Some masts have an access panel that allows the connections to be installed or removed without taking the mast off the deck.

The wires leading from the mast step to the instruments or DC panel could be anywhere and may not be accessible. This is what I was thinking when I mentioned earlier to remove the ceiling panel to see what's there. Another spot that will be impossible to access is the space between the fiberglass headliner and the deck. The wires there might be buried in the putty used to mate the headliner to the deck.

Nice wiring job on @jssailem' s mast and @LeslieTroyer's chase.

 

[SG]

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/replace-junction-box-st60-wind-inst.114334/

 

[Scott T-Bird]

If my connections were inside the mast, and I had to stick my hand inside it while it was on a crane, I'd only do that once! I would immediately rewire it so all the wires could be disconnected BEFORE the mast was lifted.

I agree that connections are better below deck. I also don't like the thought of losing fingers. There is a better way to do it, but from the looks of Len's pictures, it seems like there is no obvious location for the connections below deck, so they must be in the mast, I think. I doubt they would be inside the liner, as that wouldn't make any sense from the standpoint of convenience. Perhaps if there were an obvious part of the liner that could be removed ...
I think the bracket and the channel should be removed for inspection and that could tell you the destination of the wires. It doesn't look like there should be any trouble removing or re-installing.

 

[JimInPB]

When I look at the pictures in the original post, I see what looks to me like a smaller square stalk of wood that is screwed to the larger cross section compression post. I am thinking that perhaps that smaller cross section piece of wood may be hollowed inside & perhaps wires, as well as their connections, may be hidden inside there.

 

[MitchK]

I have a Newport 28, with the same setup. There is no junction box. The wires are laid in place when the cabin top and liner are installed, and are no accessible except in the mast base area. On my mast, there is about a 1.5" hole in the port side of the mast near the base. Many have drilled new wiring access holes and installed junction blocks to make the connections. Generally in the head area. It is possible that there area some wires under the head liner vinyl. Doesn't hurt to take a look. If it were me, I would try and fish the wires out the side of the mast and see if there is a connector there. Then do your continuity checks from there. Here is a picture of my mast base that shows where the wires come through.

 

[dlochner]

I doubt they would be inside the liner, as that wouldn't make any sense from the standpoint of convenience.

@Scott T-Bird convenience for the boat owner? I don't think builders thought of that.

https://audioseastories.com/feature_april18/

 

[jssailem]

Yes Dave... There ought to be a Law.
And punishment “KEEL HAUL THE SUCKER”
For ignoring the LAW.

 

[capta]

@Scott T-Bird convenience for the boat owner? I don't think builders thought of that.

That discussion would be a very, very long thread.

 

[MitchK]

Inconvenient or not, the only place the wires are accessible is in the electrical panel area, and at the mast base. The wires are sandwiched between the inner and outer skins of the cabin top. On my N28, there only four wires and the coax for the VHF. If the wires for the instrument were installed at the factory, it would have been run with the mast wires. If not, there will be another hole where the wires enter the cabin. As for the wires in the mast, place a block of 4x4 beside the mast, pick the mast and sit down on the block. That way, your fingers are not under a suspended load. That is what I did when I removed my mast a month or so ago. Same process when you reinstall the mast. Sit on block, make connections, shove excess wires into bottom of mast. No body parts under suspended load.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

@Scott T-Bird convenience for the boat owner? I don't think builders thought of that.

https://audioseastories.com/feature_april18/

Well, in this case it's not just a matter of convenience. If the wire connections were placed by the manufacturer between the liner and the roof, without accessibility, how would the dealer ever step the mast when he wants to deliver the boat to a buyer? It's not exactly like it's a tank that gets permanently installed under a floor board. The connections have to be accessible either above the deck or in the cabin or the mast could never be removed. Don't tell me that manufacturers have built boats with the mast permanently fixed prior to delivery.

I'm guessing that the original poster, living in Florida, may have had his boat for years without removing the mast. When you live in the NE, some folks remove their mast every year. He just needs to find his connections. Since he can't find them inside the cabin, my first guess would be that they are inside the mast! It's ludicrous to think that the connections could be in a hidden and inaccessible location inside the cabin.

 

[jssailem]

It's ludicrous to think that the connections could be in a hidden and inaccessible location inside the cabin.

So true.

 

[MitchK]

I'm not saying there is a junction box hidden in the liner. I am saying that there is only two places where the wires to the mast are accessible. In the electrical panel area, and inside the mast. I am positive he will find his connections inside of his mast at the bottom. On mine, I found the wires were installed and brought out into the mast base when the inner and outer skins were bonded, and the mast wiring connections are inside the mast at the base. Now I only have mine and three others if the same make that I looked at for reference. A number of others have had the owners for whatever reason run new wires and install a terminal strip inside the cabin someplace. Hopefully that clears up what I was attempting to say.