Looking at my first boat.

Bad Obsession · Jun 8, 2011

Catalina 22 is a good boat. Also take a look at a Hunter 22. I had one of them and it was a great boat (cruised it across the Chesapeake Bay).

There are several boats in that size.

You may also want to look at and consider a Catalina 25. Some of them are swing keeps and trailerable.

OldCat · Jun 8, 2011

Bobsled said:
Does anyone have any advice for me about a Catalina? Is it a good trailerable boat? How do they handle / is it a boat that can be sailed single handedly pretty easily? I know they have been around for a while, so I am hoping parts and upgrades are relatively easy to come by.

I have a Catalina 22 Sport. Easy to tow, reasonably easy to set up, probably no different than other typical 22 foot boats. Folks who trailer all the time can give you estimates of setup time after you get over the learning curve.

Parts and upgrades are easy to get: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?category=6 .

Easy to sail single handed if you have a tiller tamer, again typical for almost any boat in the size range. Especially easy if you lead lines aft, though I sailed mine for a year before I did that and still single handed the boat fine. I like having a furler and lines aft, but sailors sail single handed without this stuff all the time.

They sail well and are easy to balance in light to moderate winds - always fun to pass bigger, faster boats :dance:. Swing keels go to weather well as long as you keep the boat moving so the keel generates lift. The boat will develop significant weather helm in heavier winds, consider reefing the main sail first, or drop it all together since the boat sails well, even upwind, on only a Genoa. With some experience the weather helm is not hard to control as the wind pipes up.

"Must Have" rigging: 4:1+ Boom vang because the traveller is very short. Adjustable boom downhaul (the boom slides in the mast), unless you have a halyard winch for the main sail (then just tie the boom down). A 4:1+ outhaul with the standard bolt rope foot main sail. "Nice to have:" Oops - on edit, you really need: Head sail sheet winches. Nice to have: For hank on head sails: either a halyard winch for luff tension, or I think you could rig a downhaul with some purchase (I have a furler, so I don't know as much about this). Nice to have: An adjustable backstay.

Swing keel: the winch MUST be the clutch type for safety. Normal trailer winches are UNSAFE for the keel since the handle can be driven backwards. On any swing keel boat: the condition of the winch, cable, bearing blocks and the rest of the mechanism is CRITICAL since if the keel drops it can leave a hole in the boat. The hose where the cable goes also must be in good condition. Most of this is not hard to replace, except at the bearing block end. Adjust boat price for condition and cost of replacement parts.

If you are new to sailing, you need a reliable 4-6hp outboard, a good idea even if experienced. For their purpose, they are generally well made.

Join us here: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59

OC

edited because I put the "nice to have" in the wrong place

Scott T-Bird · Jun 8, 2011

FWIW, if you don't know what you are getting into, you may find trailering a sailboat a huge drawback to sailing. Set-up and take down is no picnic and if you have a wife and kids who aren't as enthusiastic about all the grunt work, you will wish they stayed at home rather than suffer with the boredom and inpatience of rigging a sail boat every time you want to go sailing. If you are alone, that may even be a bigger problem in terms of logistics and time.

With today's prices, and your location, I would recommend looking for a slightly larger boat in the 27' to 29' range, with a shoal draft keel. You can find many more options with head room, more space, comfort, and safer sailing (more protection in rough weather). I would bet that the price differences would be almost insignificant in purchase price. Maintenenance and docking is another story, though ... quite a bit more expensive. Don't worry about parts ... you can get everything you need without having to go brand specific. All the hardware comes from hardware outfits anyway. The only thing specific to your boat may be a type of mast or boom, but you can even get replacements for those types of things anyway (cha-ching!)

There are MANY Catalina 22's on our lake, but I am so happy to have a slightly larger boat. If I was in an area with large expanses of water such as your location, I would never consider a smaller sail boat (unless a beach cat or racing dinghy or something on the wet and wild side.

John Nantz · Jun 8, 2011

Trailer Boat Rigging Set-Up

Recommend you go to a boat launch and watch people set up their trailerable boats to see and learn about problems and hopefully learn a few tricks in the process.

The difficulty of raising or lowering the mast tends to increase dramatically with the height of the rig. For example, the Catalina 25 comes with a "standard" and a "tall" rig. When I talked to a group of C-25 owners who were returning from a cruise that was one of the comments. The guys with the standard rig said their's were easier to set than the tall rig boats. One of the tall-rigged boats commented about his difficulty. Now there may be some work-arounds or learning curve issues, but this is what you need to find out about, no matter which boat you go with.

Another thought, you didn't mention anything about your experience, like if you have taken sailing lessons, crewed on sailboats, or whatever. Info like this is helpful for providing input.

Without any sailing experience I'd highly recommend getting something like a 11 or 12 foot boat to learn on. There is nothing like being close to the water to get a good feel of how the sail, wind, boat, and waves interact, and maybe even learn a bit about maintenance in the process.

Scott T-Bird · Jun 8, 2011

Those are all good thoughts ... here are a few to counter. If you want to eventually move-up, you are better off learning the systems that are more similar to a larger boat. That's a reason why I chose a boat with a small diesel engine rather than an outboard. The plumbing and electrical systems that I have are providing a valuable learning experience.

The lessons of sailing are relatively easy to learn compared to the boat systems themselves. Your experiences with a smaller boat may not translate as well to a larger boat if everything is totally different. That's a reason why I would go with the 27' to 29' range.

The idea of visiting other locations is a strong point in favor of trailering. If you choose well (a larger boat), you should have very little need to get overwhelmed by haul-out charges or other maintenance items. The slip fees are a different story, though.

Good luck and fair winds! I'm sure you will figure out the best choice for you!

Bad Obsession · Jun 8, 2011

Go as big as you can afford. You won't regret it. I single hand a catalina 30 and, to me, it is a toy. A good autopilot gets you a long way.

try www.yachtworld.com and put in what you are searching for in your area. You may come up with a lot of hits.

Slade · Jun 8, 2011

Go take a look at this: http://sailingtexas.com/201101/scompac19124.html

You said you don't want to spend for a slip yet. None needed with this one. You want to go on bigger water. This will do it. Easier to rig..smaller usually easier. You won't get way over your head on this one. Not a performance boat..but not a slug either.
Lots of options. I traveled over 600 miles on Thanksgiving to get my boat. Fun adventure.

Most of all...have fun.

Check out this sister site..lots of folks in smaller boats having a ball. http://www.trailersailor.com/

Joe · Jun 8, 2011

Stick with the smaller boat, in the best condition and try to stay below your budget.... so you'll have a cushion for the inevitable break downs or desired upgrades you will encounter. A 22 footer like the catalina is PERFECT for single handing and gunkholing around a lake or coastal area. Stick with a major brand at this level because if you keep it in good condition you'll probably get your money back if you decide to sell. The Catalina factory supports all their boat models, whether you are the original owner, or not.... whether the boat is still in production or not. You'll be able to acquire parts quite easliy...... and there is a very active international Catalina 22 owners group. www.catalina22.org.

Clark · Jun 8, 2011

I'd agree with most of what was said. The C22 is a great starter boat for the price range you're in. I would strongly recommend against trying to trailer a C25. EVERYTHING is 2x as heavy as the 22 and it takes a serious vehicle to tow it. I helped a dock neighbor lower the mast on his and that thing weighs a ton (to be fair, he did not have a gin-pole setup). I used to own a Hunter 22 and it had a nicer interior than the C22 but was several hundred pounds heavier.

Also, for the years you are looking at, pick the nicest - not necessarily the newest.

Best of Luck!

Mulf · Jun 8, 2011

My two cents.........

Based on what you have described I would go with a centerboard style 22' Catalina or Hunter. I learned to sail on a Sunfish, went up to a 16' daysailor when the first two boys came along, and to an O'Day 222 when the third and fourth arrived. The O'Day 222 is a keel centerboard design, and while we based it on the Barnegat Bay we also trailered it on summer vacations to Lake Champlain or Lake George or Cooperstown NY. Don't get me wrong, it was a great boat, had enough heft for saiing in a lot of conditions, and was ok for an overnight or weekend trip. Two adults and four kinds under 10 was cozy but memorable. However, it was a production to trailor. Even after we got the routine down, it was a minimum 1/2 hour to set up and launch or to breakdown for travel. And that's with help. I could raise the mast myself, but just barely. You also needed a good deep ramp to float the boat off of or onto the trailer. I believe if you go with the 22 Catalina or Hunter they will sit lower and launch easier, the mast will be lighter, etc. Yes, bigger is nicer, but there are tradeoff's. If you want to trailer, and maybe single hand, get one that will be easy to do so. We all get 2' foot itis (or in my case 12' foot itis as after the 22 came a 29 and then a 41) and there's a time for that. Don't buy more than fits your stated objectives. Happy Sailing, Mulf

dscribner · Jun 8, 2011

Bobsled,

We bought a Lancer 25, didn't know how to sail, didn't have a trailer, didn't have a truck to tow it with. Though it sounds moronic, we did think everything out before we cut the check. One of the best decisions of our lives. Stick with the trailerable boat. I know where Scott is coming from and he makes a good point but you'll spend upwards of $4000 per year if your rent a slip and have the boat hauled and stored by a marina. Our Lancer is on the large size of trailerable, but my wife and I can step the mast, set the boom and main and get her wet in less than 30 minutes. (the boat, not the wife). You stumble at first then you learn the ropes (or lines in this case) and speed things up. We can launch in 40" of water. I recommend a book "The Complete Trailer Sailor" by Brian Gilbert. The name says it all. Plus in the back he has all kinds of informations, specs, photos and the like of 50 or so trailerables from 15' to 26'. It might help your to decide. Keep in mind: There isn't a boat out there that isn't loved and hated by knowledgeable people and for very goos reasons.

seadaddler · Jun 8, 2011

Go for It

Sounds like the Catalina 22 is perfect as your first sailboat to get started sailing and once you get into it you will decide if you and your family like it and if you want to go bigger at a later time.
My friends had catalina 22 for many fun filled years and should be cheaper to maintane too so have fun and go for it now while you can and relieve that stress with sailing.
I started with a sun fish and than a 16 Hobie and a 26 HUNTER,29 Hunter and now a 36 Hunter and you will love sailing a 22.
Nick

Bob McL · Jun 8, 2011

Everybody has likes and dislikes when it comes to boats. I bought a 1976 Venture/MacGregor 25 and love it. Built my own mast raising system and got a different trailer with dual axles. I go from lakes in Arizona to the coastal ocean in California and can travel at speeds that will get a ticket when pulling the boat. Buy what you FEEL comfortable with and move to a larger boat when the time comes . . . you'll know when.

dscribner · Jun 9, 2011

Bobsled,

The thing that you'll find with many trailerables is a lack of headroom. Please, anybody with more info, chime in here. The Mac 25 is no exception, but I'm pretty sure they're the ones that make a pop top model that elevates about 18" to give 6'-0 of clearance. This is in "anchor mode" only. The rest of the time is stoopsville. My Lancer 25, on the other hand, has about 5'-10 of headroom at all times. The floor of the cabin in deep inside the shoal keel. But, that isn't without it's drawbacks.

If you're in decent heath, and have a truck to tow with, don't be afraid of bigger. I mentioned how adept we are at stepping the mast. I'm 5'-8 and a desk jockey. My wife is 5'-9 and a wuss. And I have stepped it by myself several times. Also, if you bought a water ballasted boat (again, not without trade offs) the towing weight would be 1000 lbs lighter than a lead ballasted boat.

Bob McL · Jun 9, 2011

The Mac 25 has a pop top and iron swing keel. The older 26's have water ballast, but also have a pop top. And yes, I would love the headroom of the Lancer 25, but I do ok. Just part of the many sailboat trade-offs.

Ol Dave · Jun 9, 2011

Bobsled, here's the deal on the Mac 25. It is an entry level boat developed by Roger MacGregor, who used to work for Ford Motors. He made several compromises to make the boat appeal to the greatest number of potential customers. He started with weight. He made it light enough and narrow enough to be towed with a family size car. Some of the other differences are:

It has way more room than the Catalina 22 and is therefore more comforatble, both inside and out. It has a private enclosed head. Not important to me, but my wife loved that feature. The Catalina has a curtain for privacy. Both use porta-potties.

It does not have a traveler for mainsail adjustments. Probably not important today, but someday you'll want that feature.

It does have an innovation not seen on other similar small craft. The mainsail can be rolled around the boom like a windowshade so one person can reduce the amount of sail to any size you want. This is a big deal.

The Mac 25s came from the factory with expanded polystyrene in the spaces under the V-berth and the cockpit. This was supposed to make them bouyant enough to not sink. I never tried out that feature. Everyone pulled out the foam blocks to create storage space.

My Mac 25 came without jib winches, bummer.

Neither the Mac 25 or the Catalina 22 give you much deck space to use going forward. And I don't think either have a anchor locker in the bow, so you will be schlepping your anchor and rode over the cabintop.

Both can be outfitted with a Gerr Downhaul for the jib http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=785965

I could step the mast on the 25 by myself but it was much much easier and safer with two people. I added a tensioner to the forestay for the same reasons.

The keel on the Mac 25 is 600 lbs of iron. It rusts, it rusts alot. My solution was to take it off the boat in a boatyard, brush and sand it to bare metal. Then cover it in epoxy and then paint it with a barrier coat. No more problems.

Both came with a non-functioning "Galley" that was stored under the cockpit and would "slide" into the cabin to provide a sink to wash your hands and a small food preparation area. Most people threw them away.

Both had a table in the cabin that could be dropped down and converted to a bed.

Both came with a fabric and screen "enclosure" that would cover the open sides of the pop top cabin to keep bugs out.

I'm sure there's more, that's just what came to mind.
Ol' Dave