Looking at boats this weekend...

[Brian D]

First, Saturday, 10:00. 31' Pacific Seacraft Mariah. Asking $55,000, down from $65,000. Year is 1978. Photos of the boat look nice. I spoke with the broker and he tells me the owner is replacing the engine. That concerns me. But regardless, I am still going to give it a good look over. Broker also tells me the seller wants to release it this month. It has been on Yacht World for several months. Slip is transferable with boat. Boat location is 9 miles from my home.Second, Saturday, 12:00. 32' Mariner Ketch. Asking $34,900. Year is 1973. Broker tells me that the owner has two boats and needs to move this one. Says this boat has had problems with deck and hatches. Didn't go into details. The pictures of the boat look very good. The present owner has had the boat for 20 years. Took very good care of it. Slip is not transferable. Boat location is 9 miles from my home, but if there is no slip available, I will pass on this one.Third, Sunday, 10:00. 34' Hunter. Asking $32,000. Year is 1983. From the photos, the overall aesthetics are great. Boat is owned by an active duty Navy man. Brokers says some of the electronics are not working too well. He does not have details at this time. She is a look though. Slip is transferable, but the boat is in San Diego. My desire is to have my boat near my home. Boat location is 40 miles from my home.Does anyone have any observations about any of these boats? Quirks? Stories? Rumors? I'd love to hear them before I head out to see them. I know there are lots of Hunter owners here.

 

[r.w.landau]

Brian, Look at them like you don't want them!

Seriously, Brian, never go to look at a boat with excitement in your head. You will not see the boat. Go with the what do I have to fix is better. I don't care what boat you buy even if it is new, you will fix or change it.COUNT the cost!It is part of the price...r.w.landau

 

[Paul Akers]

Don't Make a Decision...

..to buy based upon your current proixmity to the boat.

 

[Waffle]

Brian is kind of right

They are all too old for me. You would be much better off with an early 1990s boat. The fiberglass tech is much better. The 1989 - 1994 Hunters are a very well build boat. Pound for pound I like them better than newer Hunters (except the 2005 models on). This to look for include a walk through transom, large Aft cabin and stern rail sit. It is better to pay an extra 10,000 or so for a nicer cleaner boat.

 

[Jared]

Very Different Boats

Those boats seem like very different boats. It may make sense to buy the boat that was made for what you are going to use it for. We have a H34 (1987) and love it. It is made for coastal cruising. It has a bunch of room in it and does well in light air, good for entertaining, etc. It is a good value for the money you pay for it. Compare with prices for other H34s becuase I bet you can get a 1983 for a good amount less than asking. Search the archives here on the problem areas to look for. The Pacific Seacraft is going to feel much smaller than the H34, but is going to be built more sturdy, nicer wood, more nicely built, more like a tank. I bet the H34 dusts the PS31 in light air near the coast, but the PS31 holds up much better in a storm in the middle of the Atlantic. I love the Pacific Seacrafts, but the H34 makes more since for us since we sail just in the Chesapeake Bay and like the room and taking friends out, etc. Don't know much about the Mariner. Hope that helps.

 

[Brian D]

My goals are not loffty...

And you guys, as always, provide sage advise. Boat proximity is important to me for a few reasons. If the boat is close I am more apt to visit and spend time on the boat during summer evenings. Just going there after work to relax has its advantages. With my current boat 50 miles away, that is not an option. But I agree, proximity is not the highest priority on my list.I have no desires to navigate the oceans of the world. Coastal crusing is more of what I will do. But I want the option of planing and going to Hawaii. May not make it there, but I don't want boat to be limiting factor in that case.Probably the highest priority is aesthetics. Traditional looking boats (PS and Mariner) appeal to my taste more so that modern (H34) looking ones.Thanks everyone.

 

[mortyd]

two boats

notice you happen to be on a catalina web site, brian? based on the price of catalina 30's of that era, these boats are staggeringly overpriced.

 

[KorculaChris]

Rule of thumb

If you decide to make an offer on any of them, never offer more than 2/3 of the asking price (less if there is mucho work to do like a soft deck or leaks) and tell the broker that your offer holds for 24 hours only. If they accept, then you have the survey done and adjust the offer downwards to reflect what the survey finds.Good luck, and keep an open mind. Remember, boats DO grow on trees, there are many more boats for sale than there are buyers.

 

[Tim R.]

Asking price not always a value factor

There is no rule of thumb of what to offer. I bought a boat last season that was priced below market value. I offered the asking price after inspecting the boat. I told the broker that the offer was for 24 hours and I would not be part of a bidding war. I got the boat for a price lower than I had budgeted. Happy buyer, broker and seller. Very happy admiral! The boat was on the market less than a week when I made my offer. The PO told me he just wanted to pay off his loan and cover the brokerage fees. I guess we get lucky sometimes.Another boat I looked at was so bad I almost offered 1/3 the asking price because it needed so much work and the PO was dreaming. This boat had been on the market for 2 years(1 year ago) and it is still for sale today.Tim R.

 

[Brian D]

The Catalina 30

Is a nice boat, and I have been tempted, but something about the boat just doesn't fit me. Not sure what it is. The C32/C34 appeal to me more so than the C30. One day I'll figure it out. Maybe I should look at some C30s and they might grow on me. As far as these three boats being pricey, I know that. I always look at a national average and work with that. The current issue of GOB has an article about purchasing a boat. I use the 2/3 rule when looking at boat prices. I am not trigger happy so getting into something I will regret is not an issue. But I didn't know about the 24 hour limit. Thanks for that. If you recall, I looked at a Yamaha 33 not too long ago. Price was right, location was right, boat was wrong for me. Good advise all around. Again, thanks.

 

[Jared]

2/3 rule?

That 2/3 rule seems a little excessive? I have heard 10% lower than asking, but not 2/3. Have other people heard of that rule of thumb? I always figured that if you are a seller and offer the boat at a reasonable price, then people should offer you a reasonable initial offer to buy it. I would tell someone to buzz off and not even counter if they offered me 33% less than asking price on a boat unless I was absolutely desperate to sell. Am I seeing this wrong, or am I just sore because I have been ripped off buying our past boats?

 

[mortyd]

two boats

let's take this tack. be it a 30, 320 or 34 i have been delighted a number of times dealing with an honorable company STILL IN BUSINESS.

 

[Ross]

When I am faced with the need or desire to

make a major purchase I take a methodical approach.First I attempt to define the qualities the the purchase must have. Then I define the characteristics that would stop the deal. In the case of a boat a very large hole in the bottom might be a deal killer. After that I determine what among these characteristics can be corrected. Then I look at my budget and decide whether or not I can afford to do this. Only then do I start actually looking at the physical item.

 

[Tim R.]

Hmmmm

So the only boats worth buying are the ones still in business? You just made a lot of brokers very unhappy! ;-)Still in business is really not relevent unless the boat carries a manufacturers warranty and most used boats do not. Catalina and Hunter do not produce the components on their boats. They farm that out to the same manufacturers that produced them for all of those "out of business" boat companies. And just because a boat mfr is out of business, it does not in the least bit signify any level of build quality. Go down to the local marina and count how many boats there are from current builders vs. past builders. Look at the age of those boats.If I had an unlimited budget, it would be hard for me to buy any of the current designs other than something like an Alerion. Now this is just my opinion so turn down the flame throwers but I just do not like the modern boat designs.Tim R.

 

[RickS]

2/3 rule?

Since we are all boat owners who apparently enjoy putting sweat equity in our boats, wouldn't you be insulted if someone offered you 33% lees than what was considered a fair price. Unless the seller is totally desparate, they should wait for the next offer. We've put to much time and money to upgrade our 1979 sailboat to be low balled. The fiberglass and woodwork are in excellent condition on our boat.

 

[Fred]

It's not your job to make the previous owner

happy. Almost every one of us, me included, has an unrealistic idea of the value of our boats.In addition to that, there are lots of boats on the market and not so many buyers these days.Offer half the asking price on ten boats and two or three of the owners will say yes. I bought a Catalina 38 in San Diego two years ago. Asking price was $39,000 and I got it for $22,000. Last year I got a Morgan Out Island 41 in Seattle, Asking $49,000 sold for $24,000.I look at hundreds of boats on the net and in news papers, and talk to dozens of brokers about their sellers, how long the boat had been on the market, etc.If a boat has been on the market for more than six months, the owner may be ready to move on. Don't be afraid to lowball.If they say no to your low offer, be sure that they have your phone number. After a week or two, owners often decide that low offer looks pretty good.

 

[mortyd]

two boats

only relevant when the boat is still under warranty? tell that to the memebers of my club with pearsons, cals, etc. when i need to call catalina and get lenore, keith, and even frank butler when i need to and they are left scratching their heads. your money, your choice. also the chances of finding a surveyor very familiar with your boat, and its known trouble spots, are far greater with a popular boat. had this question been asked of a catalina 320 and a hunter of similar size there would have already been a number of specific suggestion aimed at this questioner.

 

[Brian D]

Couple of thoughts...

Do not most owners inflate the asking price to begin with? I would say so, except if one is selling to someone they know. Then I could see the seller ask for what he/she *really* wants. Not saying that all sellers are crooks, but trying to get back what one put in is not uncommon. The article said that the majority of sellers would not be offended if the offer was two-thirds the asking price. Tim, I don't think that Mortyd was saying what you interpreted. I understand what he is saying. Catalina has been in business a long time. They survived the downward spiral of the 80's and have become a better company for it. Catalina's have earn the reputation they have. Not to say that other boats are not built as well as a Catalina. Some boat manufactures did not have a stable business plan and failed. But their boats sure are built well.Of the three, the PS31 and the Hunter have a reputation of stability. One is a blue water cruiser while the other is more of a coastal cruiser (IMHO).If, and IF, I make an offer, it will be 2/3 of the asking or a little bit lower. I don't think the present owners will be offended, they will just decline. I know that all three boat owners want to move their boats, so at this time, I have the advantage. The question is do I want to spend the time, if needed, to bring these boats up to my expectations. I understand that boating is fun, but it is also a labor of love.

 

[Terry Cox]

My low ball offer worked...

After much discussion the broker hinted at the seller's real price, so I countered with an offer much lower just to test the waters. The seller did not like the offer, but we settled on a price a bit higher, as long as the seller made some required minor repairs; three new through hulls, repaired forward cabin heat pump, etc. He was a motivated seller due to a medical situation that was forcing him out of boating. No regrets.Terry

 

[Ted]

1995?

WaffleYou posted...The 1989 - 1994 Hunters are a very well build boat. Pound for pound I like them better than newer Hunters (except the 2005 models on)...So what's wrong with the 1995 to 2004 Hunters? Many of the Hunter models were continously built from the early 90's to the late 90's. What happened in 1996?