Looking at a (new to me) boat on Saturday...

[Brian D]

It is a 1976 Yamaha 33. The owner is the original owner. I have compiled a list of questions about obvious things, i.e. when last survey, bottom paint, electronics, standing/running rigging, navagational, ect. But I am sure I will miss something that I didn't think to ask. Here is where I need your help and guidance.Could you guys list questions I should ask. Just list them and I'll compile in a .doc file to take with me. This is a private sale before being listed with a broker. I already know the broker is going to tag a 6k commission so I might be able to get the boat at a really good price. If she is in primo condition.Thanks guys/gals.

 

[mortyd]

new boat

just three hints; good survey, good survey and good survey.

 

[tom]

There is a Book

On how to do your own survey. This is your survey to decide if you want to hire someone to do a survey. The survey should be out of the water to check the hull. My surveyor missed several items that I later found to be a pain to repair. But using the book I surveyed several boats that I decided not to buy.

 

[Ken "Dancin Bear"]

I agree with Mortyd

Here is a link to tips on how to buy a boat.Read it all. Even if you are not using a broker a good survey is a must.Take the survey to someone else you know that understands sailboats for their review before you buy. Yamaha made a fine boat.Fair winds.http://www.boats.com/content/boat-articles.jsp?contentid=2786

 

[Stu Jackson]

Go to BoatUS.com

They have a checklist of what to look for in a used boat. Also google that topic. Amazing what's out there. No need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[sailortonyb]

Brokers only get 10%

Everyones personal experiences vary drastically. Mine have always been good, both buying and selling. My personal experiences have been with the owner selling, he was way higher than the value of the boat. Most brokers wont take on a dog or a way overpriced boat, it ruins their reputation. Although there are some that will from what I have heard on here.I personally dont even waste my time anymore with for sale by owner.My only point being is that dont assume you will be getting a good buy just because there is no broker involved. When you make an offer through a broker, he knows what the owner really wants and also is more skilled at bargaining than you are.So, unless you intend to spend 60K on a 33 Yamaha, the brokers fee would not be 6K.Also go to bucnet.com and NADA values to get a rough idea of what the boat is worth. Also Im glad you have such faith in the owner to tell you the truth about everything,Good Luck and as previously stated by others GET A SURVEYOR.

 

[bob G.]

Rainy Day

If possible go through it on a rainy day. Best surveyor in the world can not find deck/cabin leaks unless you are there when it rains. Now all you hve to do is get mother nature to cooperate

 

[mortyd]

new boat

two things, my surveryor ken johnson of mystic, ct., missed nothing important. he even hosed the boat thouroughly to look for leaks. second, a good surveyor will agree to pay for any evident stuff he misses; if he won't, keep looking. i'm nothing but a guy who bought a wonderful boat, and through a broker.

 

[Terry in Naples]

using a Broker

In my search earlier this year I found that calling a broker was a big waste of time. None that I called had a lot of time to spend with me. Several boats I tried to make appointments to see to find out the boat had sold, the broker was busy or could not make it that day. The broker would get back to me or The boat did not have what I wanted but when something came up they would call. NONE followed up. I had a lot of luck with FSBO,s. These owners were anxious to show their boats and most wanted to sell them and most of them told me they would take less. I was a cash buyer with a spending ceiling of only $50,000. Maybe it was just too small of a comission down here in SW Florida. I purchased a great boat from an owner and at a good price. I had a survey and now 5 months later am still very satisfied. I am a REALTOR, I deal in sales. I was very disappointed in the salesmen out there selling boats. I am sure there are good boat Brokers but do not pass on a boat because it is a FSBO. (for sale by owner)The survey is the thing not to miss.

 

[mortyd]

new boat

i also wonder who is going to tet an amateur wander about his boat "surveying."

 

[Claude Labrecque]

Here is my list

Hello Brian,This is the list I used the last time we discuss this with one of my friend and the broker. It is long but cover a lot.Hope this will be helpfull. GENERAL -How many owners ? -Since when the actual owner owns her ?-Was there a survey made at that time ? (If yes, please forward a copy)-Has there been a recent survey made on the boat ? (If yes, please forward a copy)-Blue Book ?-Is the boat free of any liens or encumbrances ?-If no, what are they ? (interest rates ?) Are they transferable ?-Has the boat ever been damaged, or has it ever been in an accident making her need repairs ?-Has the boat 's interior ever been damaged by water infiltrations ?-Any dents ? On the hull ? Keel ? Balcony ? Mast ? Anywhere else ?-Where was she sailed exactly and for how long (Salted water ? Fresh water ?)-Any major cruises ?-Life Jackets coming with the boat ? How many ?-Safety equipment ? Which ones ? Extinguishers ? How many ? When were they reviewed ?-Raincoats ? How many ?-Fenders ? What kind, what color and how many ?-Any maintenance bills, invoices, etc ?-Any good / bad stories ? HULL -Is it clean ? -Did it ever receive a compound ?-Did it turn yellowish depending on where she was sailed ?-Does the hull have or ever had osmosis ?-When was it first launched ?-Was it hauled out every year since ? For how long ?-If not, how often ? Was this documented ?-Did it ever hit bottom ? If yes, did it need repairs ? Were they made ? When ?-Any dent on the keel ?-What kind of maintenance was made on the hull ?-Antifouling ? How often ? When was last time ? How many coats ?-Epoxy Barrier coat ? (interprotec) ? How many coats ?-Paint ? When ?-Any gelcoat work done ? When ? Why ?-What is the condition of the rudder ?-Has the rudder ever been damaged ? If yes, when ? Was it repaired ? What were the damages, if any ?-How is the bildge ? Clean ?-Has the Bildge pump ever been changed ? When ?  DECK -Does the deck have or ever had moisture or humidity problems ?-What are the conditions of the joints (deck, hull, hatches) ?-Are all hatches and windows free of any leaks or did they ever have any leaks ? (I know this is a hard one, but I need to know. I do not want to insult anyone)(I am mostly thinking about the hatches)-Is all equipment in good working order ? (electronics, electrical, galley, fridge, freezer, holding tank, water system, hot water, inverter)-Have any major components been changed ? repaired ? Added ? Which ones and when ?-How many bins in the cockpit ? On the rear transom ? ELECTRICAL ? ELECTRONICS -Electrical system is original ?-Inverter is original ?-How old are the batteries ? How many of each ? What are they exactly ? Were they properly maintained ?-What kind is the battery charger ?-Is the microwave working on 12 V ? On the inverter ?-Fridge and freezer in good working order ?-Is the A/C working on 12V ? On the inverter ?-Is the A/C original or has it been installed ? When ? What kind of maintenance was done on it ?-What kind of water heater is there in the boat ? Does it only work at the dock ? Where is it located ? Is it original ? (this is important up North where we are)-No generator, solar pannel(s), wind generator ?-Dock power ? How long / clean is the line ? The plug is at the stern ? If not, where is it ?-Are the instruments original ? If not, how old are they ?-Any instruments duplicated repeated (nav table/cockpit) ? Which ones ?-Remote for the VHF in cockpit ? At the nav table ?-Are all instruments in good working order ? If not, what needs to be done ?-What charts / maps are available on the GPS ?-Is the autohelm 4000 autopilot integrated in the wheel ?-Can the autopilot follow the wind or only the compass ?-Are the instruments interconnected ?-All lights working properly ? ENGINE -What is the engine's colling system like ? What kind ? Was it maintained regularly ? What is the compression, if available ?-How often has the engine been maintained ? -Still have the maintenance schedule ? -Was it ever overhauled ? -Did it ever need repairs ? Major repairs ? Which ones ? When ? -470 hours since the beginning ?-What is the condition of the Propeller ?-What is the condition of the Propeller shaft ?-What is the condition of the stuffing box ? ANCHOR(S) -Does she have a windlass ? Is it original ? If not, when was it installed ?-How long of chain on the anchor(s) ? How long of rope ? How many anchors ? What kind ? What weight ?-Is there a hose in the anchor well ? Is there an additionnal compartment in the anchor well ? DINGHY -Is there a dinghy ? What kind and year ? -Outboard ? What kind and year ? Good working order ? -Are there any davits for the outboard ? For the dinghy, if any ? RIGGING / SAILS -Has the mast ever been damaged ? Is it in good shape ?-Has running rigging ever been changed ? Standing rigging ? When ?-Standing rigging in shape ? Is there rod rigging on this this boat ?-How old are her sails ? What brand ? -What is the condition of the sails ? Have they ever been damaged ? Repaired ? -What is the condition of theUV band on the Genoa ?-How often were the sails taken in for maintenance ? -How were the sails stored ?-How many sails ? Is there a Jennaker or any other kind of downwind sail ?-How old are the lines ? (Halyards, sheets, etc...)-Is the Profurl roller original ? If not, how old ?-What is the condition of the battens ?-Has the mainsail hailyard electric winch been fixed / repaired / added ? Is it in good working order ?-What it the condition of the Genoa track ? How long is it exactly ? Has it been chaged / repaired ? If yes, when ? -What it the condition of the Mainsail track ? How long is it exactly ? Has it been chaged / repaired ? If yes, when ?-How often has the mast been taken down ?-Are all winches working properly ? What is their condition ?-How many winch handles ?-What is the condition of the helm ?-What is the condition of the blocks ? Pulleys ?-Any spare pulleys ?-Any hooks on the boat to hook spare pulleys on ? INTERIOR -How is the interior ?-Have matresses / cushions ever been changed ? When ?-Is there a TV ? What kind ? DVD or VHS ?-Original upholstery ?-How is the wood work ? Has varnish been re-done ? When ?-What kind of maintenance was made on the wood work ?-How are the floors ? Any dents / scratches ? Was it ever re-varnished ? If yes, when ?-Are all doors opening and closing well ? At dock and under sail ?-Is the sink in the forward bedroom functionnal ? Hot and cold water ?-Speakers : possible to separate the indoor channel from the cockpit channel ?-Are there screens on every hatches ?-Toilet / shower in good working order ?-All plumbing in good working order ?-Toilet has a Y valve ? Sceptic tank ? Septic tank level gauge ?-Oven / stove in good working order ?-Where is the propane tank located ? MORE DECK & COCKPIT -Does the bimini have a full enclosure ?-Are the bimini, boom cover, pedestal cover, other covers and dodger original ? If not, how old are they ? What is the material ?-Is the bimini connector transparent ?-Are there any cockpit cushions ? How many ? Are they shaped to the cockpit ? What material ? How old are they ?-Bar-B-Cue ?-Fenders ? how many ? How old ?-Deck shower in good working order ? Any particular comments ?

 

[mortyd]

new boat

with all due respect, claude, if i were selling a reasonably good boat, you'd last maybe three minutes aboard unless i had reason to think you were a serious buyer (read substanial deposit first) and that you knew what you were doing to my boat, besides counting winch handles.

 

[Brian D]

Thanks Claude...

And everyone else.

 

[mortyd]

new boat

i respect all of you who suggest buying a boat without a professional survey and next time you're in new york i'd love to buy you a cold one, or six, and listen to your views at length; by the way, have i got a deal on a bridge.

 

[mortyd]

new boat

also, there must be zillions of forty-year-old boats in primo condition. especially the ones found in salt water.

 

[Don]

Bridge buying??????????????

Apparently no one suggested buying a boat without a survey - that's one thing on which we all agree.

 

[Brian D]

If one will notice...

That is the first thing I mentioned. I know a survey is required. As well as a sea trial. When I bought my first boat, I had a survey done. So that goes without saying on this boat. That is, if I am really interested in it.

 

[Guy D]

Your own survey

I found Don Casey's latest book,Complete Sailboat Maintenance Manual, helpful. It's five books in one, and the first one is on doing your amatuer survey.(The whole book is excellent. $60 at west marine, cheaper on line)He gives a wealth of info to help you weed out the also-rans, the idea being that you don't need to pay for a survey if you can discover defects yourself. Pay for one survey, hopefully, on the boat you didn't find any defects in. As previously mentioned, get a surveyor you're comfortable with and trust-sorta like your lawyer or doctor.I kinda thought Claude was inventorying the options list myself. No the designer coffee cups are not included!I find that an owner who volunteers, or answers when asked, about what is wrong with it is what I want. Car, truck, plane, boat, woman-there's something wrong with it someplace! The person that tells you it needs nothing, or it's perfect versus the guy who tells you how he fixed, or had fixed, the innumerable things that occur over age. Get him talking about the boat before you even go on board, he'll probably tell you about five things you would have missed. If he won't talk about his boats strengths and weaknesses is he really somebody you want to buy a boat from? The seller I'm looking for acts like he's trying to find a good home for his dog. He's parting with it, but he wants it to be treated like he treated it and appreciated like he appreciated it. Good luck.

 

[Ross]

I am astonished at the level of boat buying

experience that is displayed here. I have had 7 automobiles in the past fifty years. All of them kept for a long as I could get spares for them. I bought my boat when it was 21 years old and now it is 38 and someone will inherit it. I didn't much care what a surveyor would have said about it because I intended to refit it completely. I bought it for her shape and knew that I could make it into the boat that I wanted. If someone was interested in buying I would take them through every little nook and crannie in the whole vessel. Would it suit most people? probably not. Am I considering a sale? It isn't even a cloud on the horizon. I know many people that buy a boat in March because they want to go sailing in April. In that case you should make a survey or have one made.It is all the rage these days to have a home inspection done before you buy a house. But no matter how careful the inspector is something is always overlooked.

 

[mortyd]

new boat

i count five people so far in this response who are counseling a self-survey. i don't know where you guys are or what kind of boats you have been looking for, but where i am good boats go quickly. most of the nice boats i have seen sold have gone by word of mouth way before they ever got listed. i quickly learned as a seller tnat real buyers rarely show up without a contingency check in hand and a surveryor a few days behind. part of this education was that if a 'tire kicker' showed up, to cut right there and then. now, if i had a dog to sell....... as an aside, if this seller is willing to wait patientely until saturday to answer your queston before survey, i'd check the odor around the danish sea.