I'm looking at buying a 1972 CAL-27, and have a few questions for the experienced: Is the '72 a CAL-2, or the 'original CAL'. The boat currently has a porta-potty, but the wife would like a regular marine head. Does the '72 have the flexible holding tank I read about (on this forum), or will I have to engineer something. Is installing a marine head a major headache? I haven't gone to see the boat yet, but are there any typical CAL 27 problems I should look out for? This CAL has the L shaped galley to starboard, and also has a wheel instead of tiller. Although I sailed with my parents for 15+ years (mostly on Catalinas) this is my first 'major' boat purchase, up until now I've only owned Hobiecats. How does the CAL 27 compare to say a Catalina-27, quality, comfort, sail performance? I'll stop with the questions now! Thanks in advance for any insight! -Chris F. Raleigh, NC
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John Dawson
Cal intro
Chris, I'm not an expert on the 27 but hopefully some owners will correct any misinformation. You will do well to join the Cal-list email at Sailnet for a very active owners group. I believe the presence of a steering pedestal makes it a Cal 2-27, which was described as the cruising version of the standard Cal 27. The models were made concurrently for awhile so initially it did not denote a second generation design, but the addition of some options. As the company went thru some changes, I think the designations became more indicative of upgrades. A 1972 model therefore could be either a Cal 27 or Cal 2-27. My guess is that the boats that year came with marine heads without holding tanks. I think it likely that there is already an inlet and outlet that has been abandoned in favor of a portable head. A likely reason might be that when untreated discharges became illegal, it was easier to use a portable than to install holding tank setup. Probably the hardest thing will be to pull up the vee berth and install a tank, vent and pumpout line. I will need to do the same on a Cal 2-29. Use the Head Mistress and her book for information here. I think she does not recommend flexible tanks over rigid ones. As for problems, I believe the 27 had a metal beam under the base of the compression post. It is subject to slow corrosion and should be checked by a competent surveyor; its hard to get a good look at without a scope. The keel should be lead encased in fiberglass and is not subject to problems excepting hard groundings that damage the f'glass. If an inboard, check if the fuel tank is steel with a magnet. Numerous brands of motors were used , both gas and diesel. Since the mast is deck-stepped, check for core problems in the cabin and decks. Cals are not particularly blister prone, but 1972 is a long time. Some Cals had wood spreaders, check for rot. Oh, I remember the rigging on Cal27s was said to be inadequate, and many owners have upgraded to heavier wire. Also some weakness in the boom gooseneck. As for comparisons, I have a friend with a Cat27. I would say the Cal has more room and is equally well built. I find the Cat a bit more aesthetically pleasing. I would guess the Cal is heavier, sturdier, more geared toward cruising, and same speed or a bit faster, depending on engine weight, etc. Less of them around, if you are into racing. Both have loyal and justified following. Cat is still in business, of course. I like Cals, so take a serious look at it. John Dawson s/v 1977 Mac V-222 Lyra s/v 1973 Cal 2-29 Kefi #460
Chris, I'm not an expert on the 27 but hopefully some owners will correct any misinformation. You will do well to join the Cal-list email at Sailnet for a very active owners group. I believe the presence of a steering pedestal makes it a Cal 2-27, which was described as the cruising version of the standard Cal 27. The models were made concurrently for awhile so initially it did not denote a second generation design, but the addition of some options. As the company went thru some changes, I think the designations became more indicative of upgrades. A 1972 model therefore could be either a Cal 27 or Cal 2-27. My guess is that the boats that year came with marine heads without holding tanks. I think it likely that there is already an inlet and outlet that has been abandoned in favor of a portable head. A likely reason might be that when untreated discharges became illegal, it was easier to use a portable than to install holding tank setup. Probably the hardest thing will be to pull up the vee berth and install a tank, vent and pumpout line. I will need to do the same on a Cal 2-29. Use the Head Mistress and her book for information here. I think she does not recommend flexible tanks over rigid ones. As for problems, I believe the 27 had a metal beam under the base of the compression post. It is subject to slow corrosion and should be checked by a competent surveyor; its hard to get a good look at without a scope. The keel should be lead encased in fiberglass and is not subject to problems excepting hard groundings that damage the f'glass. If an inboard, check if the fuel tank is steel with a magnet. Numerous brands of motors were used , both gas and diesel. Since the mast is deck-stepped, check for core problems in the cabin and decks. Cals are not particularly blister prone, but 1972 is a long time. Some Cals had wood spreaders, check for rot. Oh, I remember the rigging on Cal27s was said to be inadequate, and many owners have upgraded to heavier wire. Also some weakness in the boom gooseneck. As for comparisons, I have a friend with a Cat27. I would say the Cal has more room and is equally well built. I find the Cat a bit more aesthetically pleasing. I would guess the Cal is heavier, sturdier, more geared toward cruising, and same speed or a bit faster, depending on engine weight, etc. Less of them around, if you are into racing. Both have loyal and justified following. Cat is still in business, of course. I like Cals, so take a serious look at it. John Dawson s/v 1977 Mac V-222 Lyra s/v 1973 Cal 2-29 Kefi #460
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Chris Floyd
CAL 27 (T2?) follow up questions
Thanks John for the response. I have a few follow up questions. This is my first cruiser, so please forgive me if the questions seem a bit ignorant. >>I believe the presence of a steering pedestal makes it a Cal 2-27, which was described as the cruising version of the standard Cal 27. I think I've discovered that this is a CAL 27 T/2 (but I'm still not 100% sure.) It has a cabin 'bulge' rather than the pop-top. The steering pedestal is what's confusing me, since I haven't seen any other CAL 27 photos with a wheel. >>My guess is that the boats that year came with marine heads without holding tanks. I think it likely that there is already an inlet and outlet that has been abandoned in favor of a portable head. I like the sound of that. I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best when I go see the boat (on Saturday). >>As for problems, I believe the 27 had a metal beam under the base of the compression post. Excuse my ignorance here, but I'm trying to figure out where the "base of the compression post" is. Do you mean they ran a metal beam across the boat along the top of the bulkhead (under the mast)? >>If an inboard, check if the fuel tank is steel with a magnet. I'm guessing a steel tank is bad (due to corrosion), and plastic is better? >>Numerous brands of motors were used , both gas and diesel. This ones got an inboard (not sure of the type yet). But it's listed as being a 2000 model year engine. >>Some Cals had wood spreaders, check for rot. Hmmn, how do I do this? Bosun's chair (not that I have one). >>Oh, I remember the rigging on Cal27s was said to be inadequate, and many owners have upgraded to heavier wire. Also some weakness in the boom gooseneck. To replace the rigging, I'm guessing the mast has to be pulled? Or is there some secret way of doing this without having the whole rig come down? >>I like Cals, so take a serious look at it. I definitely am. From photos the boat appears to be in excellent condition, inside and out, but a closer look is certainly needed. Which brings me to my final question, a surveyor. It sounds like I should get a surveyor out there to take a look at things and check for problems. How much does this usually cost? Thanks again in advance for any responses! -Chris Floyd
Thanks John for the response. I have a few follow up questions. This is my first cruiser, so please forgive me if the questions seem a bit ignorant. >>I believe the presence of a steering pedestal makes it a Cal 2-27, which was described as the cruising version of the standard Cal 27. I think I've discovered that this is a CAL 27 T/2 (but I'm still not 100% sure.) It has a cabin 'bulge' rather than the pop-top. The steering pedestal is what's confusing me, since I haven't seen any other CAL 27 photos with a wheel. >>My guess is that the boats that year came with marine heads without holding tanks. I think it likely that there is already an inlet and outlet that has been abandoned in favor of a portable head. I like the sound of that. I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best when I go see the boat (on Saturday). >>As for problems, I believe the 27 had a metal beam under the base of the compression post. Excuse my ignorance here, but I'm trying to figure out where the "base of the compression post" is. Do you mean they ran a metal beam across the boat along the top of the bulkhead (under the mast)? >>If an inboard, check if the fuel tank is steel with a magnet. I'm guessing a steel tank is bad (due to corrosion), and plastic is better? >>Numerous brands of motors were used , both gas and diesel. This ones got an inboard (not sure of the type yet). But it's listed as being a 2000 model year engine. >>Some Cals had wood spreaders, check for rot. Hmmn, how do I do this? Bosun's chair (not that I have one). >>Oh, I remember the rigging on Cal27s was said to be inadequate, and many owners have upgraded to heavier wire. Also some weakness in the boom gooseneck. To replace the rigging, I'm guessing the mast has to be pulled? Or is there some secret way of doing this without having the whole rig come down? >>I like Cals, so take a serious look at it. I definitely am. From photos the boat appears to be in excellent condition, inside and out, but a closer look is certainly needed. Which brings me to my final question, a surveyor. It sounds like I should get a surveyor out there to take a look at things and check for problems. How much does this usually cost? Thanks again in advance for any responses! -Chris Floyd
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John Dawson
Not the same Cal 27
Okay Chris, the bubble cabin makes it a T2, and I'm not familiar with that model so everything I said may not apply. Some accounts say there were three distinct and different Cal 27s. The poptop seems to be the original, with the bubble being a variation (racing model?), and the later 27, 2-27, 3-27 being a smaller version of the Cal29. Only one owner review in Sailnet that wasn't helpful. Link is to a review that says what list members are saying. This model doesn't have the metal beam; it was a transverse beam in the bilge that spread the mast pressure to the hull on other models. Wood spreaders would be obvious from deck; if so, make a note to have the surveyor check it out. Also you might ask Steve Seals Rigging if that model needed heavier rig, although something of that age should be rerigged anyway. Definitely would get a survey before buying, I would expect between 200-500. Its necessary to get a surveyor that is experienced, and hopefully with that brand. Read recent threads on SBO and ask Roger (Cal-list) for his summary of dealing with surveyors. I see you have fallen in with good company on Sailnet so good luck on the inspection and decision; no one can really help on that last mental step. The only thing I saw that bothered me a little was the conclusion that steel tanks were okay. The Coast Guard definitely recommends poly as the only 'lifetime' tank material, even above monel. I would think aluminum with baffles would be the alternative, not steel. The foaming is a consideration, but how much baffling is there in a small 18gal tank? And gas won't have that problem anyway. Check into it whatever boat you have. John Dawson s/v Kefi Baltimore
Okay Chris, the bubble cabin makes it a T2, and I'm not familiar with that model so everything I said may not apply. Some accounts say there were three distinct and different Cal 27s. The poptop seems to be the original, with the bubble being a variation (racing model?), and the later 27, 2-27, 3-27 being a smaller version of the Cal29. Only one owner review in Sailnet that wasn't helpful. Link is to a review that says what list members are saying. This model doesn't have the metal beam; it was a transverse beam in the bilge that spread the mast pressure to the hull on other models. Wood spreaders would be obvious from deck; if so, make a note to have the surveyor check it out. Also you might ask Steve Seals Rigging if that model needed heavier rig, although something of that age should be rerigged anyway. Definitely would get a survey before buying, I would expect between 200-500. Its necessary to get a surveyor that is experienced, and hopefully with that brand. Read recent threads on SBO and ask Roger (Cal-list) for his summary of dealing with surveyors. I see you have fallen in with good company on Sailnet so good luck on the inspection and decision; no one can really help on that last mental step. The only thing I saw that bothered me a little was the conclusion that steel tanks were okay. The Coast Guard definitely recommends poly as the only 'lifetime' tank material, even above monel. I would think aluminum with baffles would be the alternative, not steel. The foaming is a consideration, but how much baffling is there in a small 18gal tank? And gas won't have that problem anyway. Check into it whatever boat you have. John Dawson s/v Kefi Baltimore
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Jim Carroll
cal 3-27
The cal 3-27 was built from 1983-1985. The design was a blown up 25 according to Mr. Lapworth.
The cal 3-27 was built from 1983-1985. The design was a blown up 25 according to Mr. Lapworth.
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David Burnham
Looking at a Cal 27-1 TM
Is the '72 a CAL-2, or the 'original CAL'. ... IF you are looking at a bubble top on the main cabin, you probably have an Cal 27-1 TM, like the one I raced on in this year's St Johns River Mug Race. To be certain, run a tape up the forestay and if you get more than 37 feet, you've got a hot racing sailboat compared to the other Cal 27 models. The boat currently has a porta-potty, but the wife would like a regular marine head. Does the '72 have the flexible holding tank I read about (on this forum), or will I have to engineer something. Is installing a marine head a major headache? ...How easy can you get to a pump out station? It may be better to opt for a good model porta-potty. This is one area were skimping will bring you no pleasure. I haven't gone to see the boat yet, but are there any typical CAL 27 problems I should look out for? This CAL has the L shaped galley to starboard, and also has a wheel instead of tiller. ...the tiller steered boats can be a chore to steer for your lighter muscled crew in high winds and under power. However, being stuck behind a wheel when you are racing puts a lot of weight in the back of the cockpit where you don't need it. If you sail with a bimini over the cockpit when you are cruising the wheel can be a hassle to get around when you have to go forward. The best wheel has a brake that allows you to lock the rudder position when you sail short handed. Although I sailed with my parents for 15+ years (mostly on Catalinas) this is my first 'major' boat purchase, up until now I've only owned Hobiecats. How does the CAL 27 compare to say a Catalina-27, quality, comfort, sail performance? ...The quality is about the same, but Catalina put more into the cabin comfort to attract the females so they would approve of their husband's choice. Cal was more oriented to sailing performance so a Cal 27 usually has a lower PHRF rating than the same size Catalina.
Is the '72 a CAL-2, or the 'original CAL'. ... IF you are looking at a bubble top on the main cabin, you probably have an Cal 27-1 TM, like the one I raced on in this year's St Johns River Mug Race. To be certain, run a tape up the forestay and if you get more than 37 feet, you've got a hot racing sailboat compared to the other Cal 27 models. The boat currently has a porta-potty, but the wife would like a regular marine head. Does the '72 have the flexible holding tank I read about (on this forum), or will I have to engineer something. Is installing a marine head a major headache? ...How easy can you get to a pump out station? It may be better to opt for a good model porta-potty. This is one area were skimping will bring you no pleasure. I haven't gone to see the boat yet, but are there any typical CAL 27 problems I should look out for? This CAL has the L shaped galley to starboard, and also has a wheel instead of tiller. ...the tiller steered boats can be a chore to steer for your lighter muscled crew in high winds and under power. However, being stuck behind a wheel when you are racing puts a lot of weight in the back of the cockpit where you don't need it. If you sail with a bimini over the cockpit when you are cruising the wheel can be a hassle to get around when you have to go forward. The best wheel has a brake that allows you to lock the rudder position when you sail short handed. Although I sailed with my parents for 15+ years (mostly on Catalinas) this is my first 'major' boat purchase, up until now I've only owned Hobiecats. How does the CAL 27 compare to say a Catalina-27, quality, comfort, sail performance? ...The quality is about the same, but Catalina put more into the cabin comfort to attract the females so they would approve of their husband's choice. Cal was more oriented to sailing performance so a Cal 27 usually has a lower PHRF rating than the same size Catalina.
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