IVE BEEN LOOKING AT A C30 THAT Has keel delamination about a foot down from the haul on both sides an area of about a sq foot. It also appears that the rudder may be slightly bent it shows signs of minamal leaking by the port windows as near as i can tell.She has a disel that I have not heard run only to say that its in good condition.The boat has been drydocked for two seasons.With some good cleaning it would look good.It has wooden spreaders and bow sprint that need refinishing.Basic sails and rigging. The asking price is 16500.Looking around at other c30s it seemed reasonable except for what I mentioned. Iam interested in what you think.
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LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners
Catalina smile?
The keel delamination you mention sound more like the infamous Catalina smile where there is (usually) a thin crack at either the fore and/or aft end of the keel to hull joint. This is usually not structural. Leaking ports are easily fixed. The rudder could be more of a problem. IS it bent or does it just LOOK bent? Keep in mind that you'll probably want to replace those wooden spreaders right away. Anyway you look at it, get a survey but it doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. LaDonna
The keel delamination you mention sound more like the infamous Catalina smile where there is (usually) a thin crack at either the fore and/or aft end of the keel to hull joint. This is usually not structural. Leaking ports are easily fixed. The rudder could be more of a problem. IS it bent or does it just LOOK bent? Keep in mind that you'll probably want to replace those wooden spreaders right away. Anyway you look at it, get a survey but it doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. LaDonna
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Todd Osborne
Run the Engine
Sounds like a good deal, provided the engine either runs, or can be made to run. a replacement engine will cost almost half the value of the boat! All good ideas from LaDonna.
Sounds like a good deal, provided the engine either runs, or can be made to run. a replacement engine will cost almost half the value of the boat! All good ideas from LaDonna.
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Jeff Walker
Catalina Smiles :>)
I found the Tall Rigs (with bowsprits) tend to have more pronounced cracks at the keel. Probably the extra load from the forward cable. Hull blisters is your next big issue so take a close look and see if there has been lots of repair work below the water line or if blisters are visible. Drop price $3,500 if a new bottom has to be put on. Jeff
I found the Tall Rigs (with bowsprits) tend to have more pronounced cracks at the keel. Probably the extra load from the forward cable. Hull blisters is your next big issue so take a close look and see if there has been lots of repair work below the water line or if blisters are visible. Drop price $3,500 if a new bottom has to be put on. Jeff
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Steve Franklin
Engine okay?
All good answers to good questions. After I had my prepurchase survey on a 79 C30, I had a deisel mechanic come spend a couple hours with me looking over the engine, running it, etc. Not cheap at $45 an hour, but it was money WELL spent. He answered LOTS of questions and earned a berth as "my" mechanic. Unless you are familiar with deisels, I highly recommend getting an expert to look at the engine. Good luck and fair winds!!!
All good answers to good questions. After I had my prepurchase survey on a 79 C30, I had a deisel mechanic come spend a couple hours with me looking over the engine, running it, etc. Not cheap at $45 an hour, but it was money WELL spent. He answered LOTS of questions and earned a berth as "my" mechanic. Unless you are familiar with deisels, I highly recommend getting an expert to look at the engine. Good luck and fair winds!!!
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Dave
Think about value after clean-up
If the engine is good, it soulds like a very good deal. Think about it this way, once the repairs are done and you've cleaned her up, she will likely be worth MUCH more than you paid for her. Do you think they be will to lower the price to closer to $15k? Early to mid 80's C-30s are selling in the mid 20's. So, you may have the opportunity to get some instant equity...
If the engine is good, it soulds like a very good deal. Think about it this way, once the repairs are done and you've cleaned her up, she will likely be worth MUCH more than you paid for her. Do you think they be will to lower the price to closer to $15k? Early to mid 80's C-30s are selling in the mid 20's. So, you may have the opportunity to get some instant equity...
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Guest
It all comes down to the engine.
I purchased a J/30 that had the original Yanmar 15 Diesel which had not been run for a little over two years. What a nightmare. I was later told by my mechanic that a diesel that is not run at least once every six months, not to mention 2 years+, has to undergo major service. During the service, while the Yanny was in 2000 pieces, more problems were found. Had to opt for the rebuild at this point. By the time all was said and done, the discount I paid for the boat plus the money spent on the engine, and a few other things (running rigging, a new bottom, etc. etc.) I was in a worse position that I would have been by purchasing an well maintained boat. I sold it last year at a loss... Bottom line: buyer beware. Also, don't rely on a surveryor to inspect the engine. Get a diesel mechanic to take a look.
I purchased a J/30 that had the original Yanmar 15 Diesel which had not been run for a little over two years. What a nightmare. I was later told by my mechanic that a diesel that is not run at least once every six months, not to mention 2 years+, has to undergo major service. During the service, while the Yanny was in 2000 pieces, more problems were found. Had to opt for the rebuild at this point. By the time all was said and done, the discount I paid for the boat plus the money spent on the engine, and a few other things (running rigging, a new bottom, etc. etc.) I was in a worse position that I would have been by purchasing an well maintained boat. I sold it last year at a loss... Bottom line: buyer beware. Also, don't rely on a surveryor to inspect the engine. Get a diesel mechanic to take a look.
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Jerry
Check the bilge too!
Does this boat have a dry bilge? If so, great! If not, you may have my problem. Remember that this boat is a 1980 model which probably means that the keel stub is made out of wood. This means that at the bottom of the bilge there is a 1/8" layer of fiberglass atop a 1" layer of wood through which the 8 keel bolts protrude. If you have a "Catalina Smile" or evidence if delamination in the area where the keel mates with the hull that could well mean that water might be leaking in along the keel rods and softening that wooden layer. Check around your keel bolts for any softening of the area. On mine I bore down about an inch with a small drill bit in 3 areas and found the wood to be wet. Of course, if you do this while the boat is in the water be sure to seal off the small holes afterwards! Catalina has a procedure for eliminating that wood layer called the "Keel Stub Removal Procedure". To do it right is a backbreaking job which should be done while the boat is out of the water. I am just finishing mine up now and I would not wish this job on anyone. When I bought my 1984 Catalina 30 the surveyor said that the "Catalina Smile" was no big deal. True, there is no structural damage, but I would not discount other headaches which may arise. But I love my Catalina and I probably would have bought it anyway had I known at the time that I would have to take on this job(not to mention a few more). Good luck and happy saliing!
Does this boat have a dry bilge? If so, great! If not, you may have my problem. Remember that this boat is a 1980 model which probably means that the keel stub is made out of wood. This means that at the bottom of the bilge there is a 1/8" layer of fiberglass atop a 1" layer of wood through which the 8 keel bolts protrude. If you have a "Catalina Smile" or evidence if delamination in the area where the keel mates with the hull that could well mean that water might be leaking in along the keel rods and softening that wooden layer. Check around your keel bolts for any softening of the area. On mine I bore down about an inch with a small drill bit in 3 areas and found the wood to be wet. Of course, if you do this while the boat is in the water be sure to seal off the small holes afterwards! Catalina has a procedure for eliminating that wood layer called the "Keel Stub Removal Procedure". To do it right is a backbreaking job which should be done while the boat is out of the water. I am just finishing mine up now and I would not wish this job on anyone. When I bought my 1984 Catalina 30 the surveyor said that the "Catalina Smile" was no big deal. True, there is no structural damage, but I would not discount other headaches which may arise. But I love my Catalina and I probably would have bought it anyway had I known at the time that I would have to take on this job(not to mention a few more). Good luck and happy saliing!
J
John Sears - No Relation
Look Carefully
Definitely have the boat checked out by a certified, reputable boat surveyor. You'll need the survey for insurance coverage anyhow. I bought a 1980 C 30 3 seasons ago, that sounds like it was in a similar situation. It had only been dry docked for a year, but it needed some maintenance. We had a survey done and found that the engine, which looked good and I was told ran good, did not have compression in one of the cylinders. It needed to be rebuilt or replaced. We ended up putting in a new Yanmar. The boat also had signs of delamination around the keel joint, this appearantly is a common feature for sail boats, but it must be repaired as soon as you see it. Our surveyor took a moisture reading and found that there was no moisture in the keel so we repaired the opening and set sail. At the beginning of last season, we discovered that the keel was separating from the boat. It was discovered that one of the keel bolts had snapped. I can't say if the delamination of the keel should have been a warning sign, but I wouldn't rule it out either. In our case it was determined that the bolt most likely snapped while we were being towed off of a sand bar in the Barnegat Bay the previous fall. Tow Boats unfortunately always want to tow from the front, pulling or torqueing you through the bar. We think that's how the bolt snapped. So we had to have the keel reset which cost about 5k. Luckily since it was determined that the towing incident caused the bolt to snap, the repair was covered by insurance. All in all, we've been happy with the boat, but it has not been without problems. We paid $11,500 for the boat and have put a a little more than that into it getting it ship shape. The new engine alone was $7k installed.
Definitely have the boat checked out by a certified, reputable boat surveyor. You'll need the survey for insurance coverage anyhow. I bought a 1980 C 30 3 seasons ago, that sounds like it was in a similar situation. It had only been dry docked for a year, but it needed some maintenance. We had a survey done and found that the engine, which looked good and I was told ran good, did not have compression in one of the cylinders. It needed to be rebuilt or replaced. We ended up putting in a new Yanmar. The boat also had signs of delamination around the keel joint, this appearantly is a common feature for sail boats, but it must be repaired as soon as you see it. Our surveyor took a moisture reading and found that there was no moisture in the keel so we repaired the opening and set sail. At the beginning of last season, we discovered that the keel was separating from the boat. It was discovered that one of the keel bolts had snapped. I can't say if the delamination of the keel should have been a warning sign, but I wouldn't rule it out either. In our case it was determined that the bolt most likely snapped while we were being towed off of a sand bar in the Barnegat Bay the previous fall. Tow Boats unfortunately always want to tow from the front, pulling or torqueing you through the bar. We think that's how the bolt snapped. So we had to have the keel reset which cost about 5k. Luckily since it was determined that the towing incident caused the bolt to snap, the repair was covered by insurance. All in all, we've been happy with the boat, but it has not been without problems. We paid $11,500 for the boat and have put a a little more than that into it getting it ship shape. The new engine alone was $7k installed.
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