Longer oil Filter

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RAD

.
Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
Half way thru the season

I change just the filter and throw in a qt. of oil, I was on a friends 30 Catalina a few years back and noticed that his oil is very clean which I found pretty remarkable for a 22 year old MX25 and he said since it was new he would chnge just the filter mid season and thats what keeps it clean. When I bought my 32 ODay with a Westerbeke 30 in it the oil was black after every oil chnge and I'm on ny 4th season and can see a difference since doing the same.
 

RAD

.
Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
Half way thru the season

I change just the filter and throw in a qt. of oil, I was on a friends 30 Catalina a few years back and noticed that his oil is very clean which I found pretty remarkable for a 22 year old MX25 and he said since it was new he would chnge just the filter mid season and thats what keeps it clean. When I bought my 32 ODay with a Westerbeke 30 in it the oil was black after every oil chnge and I'm on ny 4th season and can see a difference since doing the same.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,723
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
So..

So after reading RAD's link it seems I'm not so off base buying OEM filters. My assertion is spot on about the amount of filter media in the Fram standard filters and the construction and backed up by this unbiased, non-industry data. It seems the Motorcraft, the same one my Ford dealer installs, sells for $3.00 and has 400 feet of filter surface area, solid construction and anti-drain valve technology while the Fram, everyone keeps talking up, also sells for $3.00 but has less than HALF the filter media at 193 square feet and also has questionable build quality and numerous reported problems according to this research and data. The other filter that stood out was the Purolator Pure One which is almost DOUBLE the price of the OEM's (Motorcraft & AC Delco and according to this research is virtually identical in construction techniques to the Motorcraft. Why buy the after market for nearly double the money when the OEM Motorcraft is virtually the same build quality??? Why do I trust and use OEM filters? Because a car manufacturer or engine manufacturer has a reputation to uphold more so than "Joe's X-Brand Oil Filter Company" does... Here's a quoted summary (not my words the researchers) of the "filters to avoid" which came out of this research: "Filters To Avoid The following list of filters have known problems. You will see well-known names here and will probably be disappointed. This is because many of these brands have stopped making their own filters and buy from a common manufacturer. Fram Extra Guard Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circuilating through my system. The oil passge to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it. Fram Double Guard Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure releif valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter. Penzoil This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version. Quaker State This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil..."
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,723
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
So..

So after reading RAD's link it seems I'm not so off base buying OEM filters. My assertion is spot on about the amount of filter media in the Fram standard filters and the construction and backed up by this unbiased, non-industry data. It seems the Motorcraft, the same one my Ford dealer installs, sells for $3.00 and has 400 feet of filter surface area, solid construction and anti-drain valve technology while the Fram, everyone keeps talking up, also sells for $3.00 but has less than HALF the filter media at 193 square feet and also has questionable build quality and numerous reported problems according to this research and data. The other filter that stood out was the Purolator Pure One which is almost DOUBLE the price of the OEM's (Motorcraft & AC Delco and according to this research is virtually identical in construction techniques to the Motorcraft. Why buy the after market for nearly double the money when the OEM Motorcraft is virtually the same build quality??? Why do I trust and use OEM filters? Because a car manufacturer or engine manufacturer has a reputation to uphold more so than "Joe's X-Brand Oil Filter Company" does... Here's a quoted summary (not my words the researchers) of the "filters to avoid" which came out of this research: "Filters To Avoid The following list of filters have known problems. You will see well-known names here and will probably be disappointed. This is because many of these brands have stopped making their own filters and buy from a common manufacturer. Fram Extra Guard Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circuilating through my system. The oil passge to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it. Fram Double Guard Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure releif valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter. Penzoil This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version. Quaker State This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil..."
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,596
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
To paraphrase Winston Churchill

Never in the course of human endeavor have so many spent so much time over such a trivial issue. Must be a sign of winter... It seems to me that most of us spend more money on wax. Saving a few bucks on a $10,000+ engine certainly appears to be a false economy.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,596
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
To paraphrase Winston Churchill

Never in the course of human endeavor have so many spent so much time over such a trivial issue. Must be a sign of winter... It seems to me that most of us spend more money on wax. Saving a few bucks on a $10,000+ engine certainly appears to be a false economy.
 
C

Capt Ron;-)

Agree!

With you in essence Don for plucking round, but if on a real cruise... I would advise getting a housing that accepts WIX filters! I ended up having to get some Racor fuel filters sent to Va'vau Tonga, but Wix are available worldwide and cheap too. Racor's are excellent filters, but have seen and known many who have Wix and no complaints from people who cruised on circumnaigations with 'em.
 
C

Capt Ron;-)

Agree!

With you in essence Don for plucking round, but if on a real cruise... I would advise getting a housing that accepts WIX filters! I ended up having to get some Racor fuel filters sent to Va'vau Tonga, but Wix are available worldwide and cheap too. Racor's are excellent filters, but have seen and known many who have Wix and no complaints from people who cruised on circumnaigations with 'em.
 
Jun 7, 2007
875
Pearson- 323- Mobile,Al
Marketing

Marketing is a great field. I remember when a friend was starting a bottled water company in the early 90s. I thought that it was isane to bottle tap water and expect people to pay $1 /for a 20 OZ bottle. Well he is now rich and sold the company. Water is basically water but marketers have developed a group of people who believe that water from the Alps or the Rockies or even the Artic is worth more money than water from a tap. Just like Coors being made with Rocky Mountain Spring water..... To each their own.
 
Jun 7, 2007
875
Pearson- 323- Mobile,Al
Marketing

Marketing is a great field. I remember when a friend was starting a bottled water company in the early 90s. I thought that it was isane to bottle tap water and expect people to pay $1 /for a 20 OZ bottle. Well he is now rich and sold the company. Water is basically water but marketers have developed a group of people who believe that water from the Alps or the Rockies or even the Artic is worth more money than water from a tap. Just like Coors being made with Rocky Mountain Spring water..... To each their own.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,723
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Don.. !!!

Quote: "It seems to me that most of us spend more money on wax. Saving a few bucks on a $10,000+ engine certainly appears to be a false economy." My sentiments exactly! Penny wise, pound foolish...
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,723
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Don.. !!!

Quote: "It seems to me that most of us spend more money on wax. Saving a few bucks on a $10,000+ engine certainly appears to be a false economy." My sentiments exactly! Penny wise, pound foolish...
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,723
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Moon...

If you have actually read the data, seen the pictures and still feel there is NO difference in oil filters, and it's all MARKETING, then go on your merry way with your blinders on. For Christ sake it was YOU who asked about using a larger filter! Use the OEM filter or one with an equivalent amount of media and construction quality and you will have MORE filtering media surface area than using a 1/2" longer Fram!!!!!! In case you missed it: OEM Motorcraft filter $3.00 = 400 Sq. inches of filter media Fram filter $3.00 = 193 Sq. inches of filter media Yup it's all marketing.......????!!! If you already KNOW the answer why ask the question????
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,723
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Moon...

If you have actually read the data, seen the pictures and still feel there is NO difference in oil filters, and it's all MARKETING, then go on your merry way with your blinders on. For Christ sake it was YOU who asked about using a larger filter! Use the OEM filter or one with an equivalent amount of media and construction quality and you will have MORE filtering media surface area than using a 1/2" longer Fram!!!!!! In case you missed it: OEM Motorcraft filter $3.00 = 400 Sq. inches of filter media Fram filter $3.00 = 193 Sq. inches of filter media Yup it's all marketing.......????!!! If you already KNOW the answer why ask the question????
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,596
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Maine Sail

These debates usually aren't worth the effort - facts are not always relevant when it comes to how some make choices... as evidenced by the bottled water example, Moonsailor makes my point
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,596
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Maine Sail

These debates usually aren't worth the effort - facts are not always relevant when it comes to how some make choices... as evidenced by the bottled water example, Moonsailor makes my point
 
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