Longer oil Filter

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CalebD

.
Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
I bet the difference is minimal

in terms of cleaning and cooling the oil but it can't hurt as long as it fits tight. I think a more important aspect might be how fast your engine can circulate all the oil through the filter so size may not matter much. I'm with you MoonSailor in that more frequent oil and filter changes is the way to go.
 

CalebD

.
Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
I bet the difference is minimal

in terms of cleaning and cooling the oil but it can't hurt as long as it fits tight. I think a more important aspect might be how fast your engine can circulate all the oil through the filter so size may not matter much. I'm with you MoonSailor in that more frequent oil and filter changes is the way to go.
 
Aug 16, 2006
281
Ericson 32 Oregon coast
Moon, that's pretty much what I've experienced

over the years. I always would keep the oil changed often over the years and that along with the increased rating of the oil itself seemed to do the trick.
 
Aug 16, 2006
281
Ericson 32 Oregon coast
Moon, that's pretty much what I've experienced

over the years. I always would keep the oil changed often over the years and that along with the increased rating of the oil itself seemed to do the trick.
 
Dec 8, 2007
478
Irwin 41 CC Ketch LaConner WA
I have 3 Dump trucks

with both twin spin on and an after cooler type filters called "Lubrifiners", which take a rag type insert which is 14 to 16" long by 6" in diamiter. You would be amazed at the amount of sludge traped by these filters. There is a petcock at the bottom and once a month we drain about a cup of sedement off between oil changes. 1) Ok we run them in the dirt a little bit a sailboat dosent 2) Ok we have a 6 gal crank case to filter not 1 or 2 but? I have never cut open a filter from my sailboat to see how bad it is eather. I will next time for my own couriosity. But I doubt the spin on has the filtering fineness to capture thease sludges anyway. My point is this . If I had room on my boat to mount a lubrifiner I would do it. All filters are not created equeal Not uncommon for Hwighway trucks to go a Million miles on an engine. Take that filter off and you can cut that in half easy. But what do I know... Edit: This wasent a debate as to NEEDING a biger filter but He was asking if it would hurt. It cant hurt only help. As long as his bigger filter of choice is not passing larger fines. :)
 
Dec 8, 2007
478
Irwin 41 CC Ketch LaConner WA
I have 3 Dump trucks

with both twin spin on and an after cooler type filters called "Lubrifiners", which take a rag type insert which is 14 to 16" long by 6" in diamiter. You would be amazed at the amount of sludge traped by these filters. There is a petcock at the bottom and once a month we drain about a cup of sedement off between oil changes. 1) Ok we run them in the dirt a little bit a sailboat dosent 2) Ok we have a 6 gal crank case to filter not 1 or 2 but? I have never cut open a filter from my sailboat to see how bad it is eather. I will next time for my own couriosity. But I doubt the spin on has the filtering fineness to capture thease sludges anyway. My point is this . If I had room on my boat to mount a lubrifiner I would do it. All filters are not created equeal Not uncommon for Hwighway trucks to go a Million miles on an engine. Take that filter off and you can cut that in half easy. But what do I know... Edit: This wasent a debate as to NEEDING a biger filter but He was asking if it would hurt. It cant hurt only help. As long as his bigger filter of choice is not passing larger fines. :)
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,722
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Well...

Well ever since I had a problem with a Volvo automobile warranty, and they tried to deny the claim, saying that because I was using a MANN filter rather than a Volvo they were going to not cover the warranty I now use exactly what the manufacturer recommends regardless of the fact that there are better filters out there. It turns out that MANN actually made the filters for Volvo, which I knew, and they confirmed to me that other than the exterior paint the only difference was price. I had my lawyer send them a copy of MANN's letter and the dealer quickly honored the warranty and repaired the car. I'd stick with what came on the engine, size wise, and just change the oil more frequently. I change the oil on my Westerbeke every 40-50 hours of use and in the fall before winter layup. I personally don't like to ever see my oil actually get black. Call it wasteful but oil is cheap and engines are not! I also change my tranny fluid every year and my closed system antifreeze too. Fortunately for my the previous owner of my boat thought the same and changed it every 50 hours give or take two or three. My engine has 2700+ hours on her and runs like new, produces almost zero smoke, compression tests like new and the oil analysis came back perfect. There is no substitute for frequent oil changes.... Use what ever brand you wish too but do change frequently...
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,722
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Well...

Well ever since I had a problem with a Volvo automobile warranty, and they tried to deny the claim, saying that because I was using a MANN filter rather than a Volvo they were going to not cover the warranty I now use exactly what the manufacturer recommends regardless of the fact that there are better filters out there. It turns out that MANN actually made the filters for Volvo, which I knew, and they confirmed to me that other than the exterior paint the only difference was price. I had my lawyer send them a copy of MANN's letter and the dealer quickly honored the warranty and repaired the car. I'd stick with what came on the engine, size wise, and just change the oil more frequently. I change the oil on my Westerbeke every 40-50 hours of use and in the fall before winter layup. I personally don't like to ever see my oil actually get black. Call it wasteful but oil is cheap and engines are not! I also change my tranny fluid every year and my closed system antifreeze too. Fortunately for my the previous owner of my boat thought the same and changed it every 50 hours give or take two or three. My engine has 2700+ hours on her and runs like new, produces almost zero smoke, compression tests like new and the oil analysis came back perfect. There is no substitute for frequent oil changes.... Use what ever brand you wish too but do change frequently...
 
Aug 16, 2006
281
Ericson 32 Oregon coast
Maine Sail. I agree. I think the truth is that

much of the argument over oil and oil filters really comes from those that really don't want to change oil. Over the years I've even heard, more than once, guys swear that the ash built up in oil is good for the engine. I do use the "official" (their brand) replacement filters, but only while under warranty. I've never had it happen but I wouldn't want to have your Volvo experience should I need to exercise the warranty.
 
Aug 16, 2006
281
Ericson 32 Oregon coast
Maine Sail. I agree. I think the truth is that

much of the argument over oil and oil filters really comes from those that really don't want to change oil. Over the years I've even heard, more than once, guys swear that the ash built up in oil is good for the engine. I do use the "official" (their brand) replacement filters, but only while under warranty. I've never had it happen but I wouldn't want to have your Volvo experience should I need to exercise the warranty.
 
W

Warren Milberg

I asked "Practical Sailor"

to compare and contrast OEM oil filters to after market filters like Fram. Obviously, none of the major diesel engine make oil filters... In any event, they stated that if an engine maker specified a specific filter for his engine or the warranty would be voided, they would have to provide you with that filter. I doubt that has ever been done. Nor do I think an engine maker could ever get away with voiding their warranty if you used a Fram or some other after market filter. If they did succeed, you would then have a great case against the after market filter maker, also a situation I can never recall happening. In many cases, PS said the aftermarket filters had larger capacities than some of the OEM filters, and they thought that to be a good thing.
 
W

Warren Milberg

I asked "Practical Sailor"

to compare and contrast OEM oil filters to after market filters like Fram. Obviously, none of the major diesel engine make oil filters... In any event, they stated that if an engine maker specified a specific filter for his engine or the warranty would be voided, they would have to provide you with that filter. I doubt that has ever been done. Nor do I think an engine maker could ever get away with voiding their warranty if you used a Fram or some other after market filter. If they did succeed, you would then have a great case against the after market filter maker, also a situation I can never recall happening. In many cases, PS said the aftermarket filters had larger capacities than some of the OEM filters, and they thought that to be a good thing.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Most are the SAME ......

The 'working' portion of these filters is the 'filter media'. Unfortunately this filter media (a resinated cellulose technical paper) is produced essentially by ONE SINGLE company in the entire world - Ahlstrom of Finland. Very few other technical (resinated) paper filter media manufacturers can compete with Ahlstrom who has essentially become a world monopoly producer of such technical filter paper. Sure there are 'some' other manufacturers of this type of filter media ... but usually dont come close to the precision and 'reproducibility' of Ahlstrom. An automotive filter 'manufacturer' in most cases is nothing more than a 'packager' ... BUYS the technical paper (from Ahlstrom and some others), pleats the paper and assembles it into various configurations, etc. So, the hububb of "this is better over another one" is simply not usually true. Large scale production of such filters is only by a very few manufacturers .... and many of the 'off-brands' (including engine manufacturer brands) are simply 'private labeled' for them at these large manufacturing plants. So, with the filter media being essentially produced by ONE worlds manufacturer ....... If an oil or fuel filter has the same amount of filter surface area .... they will be exactly EQUAL in performance. Your choice, buy a filter with a quality 'brand name' (Fram, Wix, Racor, MANN, etc. etc.) OR buy the SAME private-branded filter from probably the SAME quality manufacture but now including an EXTREME 'price markup'. (Anyone whoever owned a Volvo, etc. product will know the meaning of 'USURY' markup'). The LARGER the surface area the BETTER as the fluid flow will be slower through the filter media and not penetrate the particles so deeply into the media which will quickly 'blind' the filter, if the fluid velocity is very low then the debris will be captured on the upper surface of the media and you will get very long service life. The most important technical consideration of oil filters are: they are not 'single pass' capture mechanisms as the oil flows over and over and over again through the same filter. This is a VERY efficient means of filtration as if a particle doesnt get captured on the first pass through, by statistics, it WILL get captured during successive passes. Such filter media dont capture particles 'all at one specific particle size' .... there are big and little sized capture sites within the media .... so by statistics that small particle if it doenst get captured on the first pass it probably will find the the right sized capture site on successive passes later on. You could use compressed pubic hair in such a filter and simply wait long enough until a target particle gets captured .... eventually. The 'comparisons' that you find on the internet are mostly slick BS done by folks who simply have NO IDEA nor technical basis of what they say ... OR are probably done to slant very slick 'marketing' toward one particular 'manufacturer' (packager actually)- a Profit motive!!!!!! Same motive with engine manufacturers 'filters' .... obscene profit margins. The moral of this rant is simply buy from a reliable source (as there are 'shysters' as in every industry), buy what looks like 'quality' and put on the LARGEST (filter surface area) possible filter you can fit for best economy and technical ability. The rest is simply over-priced bullshit. Your choice. BTW - as said and posted by many other ....CHANGE THE OIL OFTEN. ;-)
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Most are the SAME ......

The 'working' portion of these filters is the 'filter media'. Unfortunately this filter media (a resinated cellulose technical paper) is produced essentially by ONE SINGLE company in the entire world - Ahlstrom of Finland. Very few other technical (resinated) paper filter media manufacturers can compete with Ahlstrom who has essentially become a world monopoly producer of such technical filter paper. Sure there are 'some' other manufacturers of this type of filter media ... but usually dont come close to the precision and 'reproducibility' of Ahlstrom. An automotive filter 'manufacturer' in most cases is nothing more than a 'packager' ... BUYS the technical paper (from Ahlstrom and some others), pleats the paper and assembles it into various configurations, etc. So, the hububb of "this is better over another one" is simply not usually true. Large scale production of such filters is only by a very few manufacturers .... and many of the 'off-brands' (including engine manufacturer brands) are simply 'private labeled' for them at these large manufacturing plants. So, with the filter media being essentially produced by ONE worlds manufacturer ....... If an oil or fuel filter has the same amount of filter surface area .... they will be exactly EQUAL in performance. Your choice, buy a filter with a quality 'brand name' (Fram, Wix, Racor, MANN, etc. etc.) OR buy the SAME private-branded filter from probably the SAME quality manufacture but now including an EXTREME 'price markup'. (Anyone whoever owned a Volvo, etc. product will know the meaning of 'USURY' markup'). The LARGER the surface area the BETTER as the fluid flow will be slower through the filter media and not penetrate the particles so deeply into the media which will quickly 'blind' the filter, if the fluid velocity is very low then the debris will be captured on the upper surface of the media and you will get very long service life. The most important technical consideration of oil filters are: they are not 'single pass' capture mechanisms as the oil flows over and over and over again through the same filter. This is a VERY efficient means of filtration as if a particle doesnt get captured on the first pass through, by statistics, it WILL get captured during successive passes. Such filter media dont capture particles 'all at one specific particle size' .... there are big and little sized capture sites within the media .... so by statistics that small particle if it doenst get captured on the first pass it probably will find the the right sized capture site on successive passes later on. You could use compressed pubic hair in such a filter and simply wait long enough until a target particle gets captured .... eventually. The 'comparisons' that you find on the internet are mostly slick BS done by folks who simply have NO IDEA nor technical basis of what they say ... OR are probably done to slant very slick 'marketing' toward one particular 'manufacturer' (packager actually)- a Profit motive!!!!!! Same motive with engine manufacturers 'filters' .... obscene profit margins. The moral of this rant is simply buy from a reliable source (as there are 'shysters' as in every industry), buy what looks like 'quality' and put on the LARGEST (filter surface area) possible filter you can fit for best economy and technical ability. The rest is simply over-priced bullshit. Your choice. BTW - as said and posted by many other ....CHANGE THE OIL OFTEN. ;-)
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
If this guy knows what he is talking about.....

If this guy knows what he is taking about, you would have to be nuts to purchase anything but the OEM filters for your boat. I personally think that trying to save $2-5 on something that you replace once a year or less does not make any sense. A new motor will cost in excess of $7000. The Yanmar motor is rated at 10,000 to 12,000 hrs IF maintained. I am not willing to try something that may be potentially inferior to save a couple of bucks, but obviously some of you do not feel the same. There are too many posts on the Internet about oil filters self destructing to even think about these type of cost savings.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
If this guy knows what he is talking about.....

If this guy knows what he is taking about, you would have to be nuts to purchase anything but the OEM filters for your boat. I personally think that trying to save $2-5 on something that you replace once a year or less does not make any sense. A new motor will cost in excess of $7000. The Yanmar motor is rated at 10,000 to 12,000 hrs IF maintained. I am not willing to try something that may be potentially inferior to save a couple of bucks, but obviously some of you do not feel the same. There are too many posts on the Internet about oil filters self destructing to even think about these type of cost savings.
 
A

Andy

Quality ALL the way down the line

If you buy off on the post that Ahlstrom of Finland makes ALL the paper, wouldn't you think that Ahlstrom sells different qualities too? And so what if it IS the same paper, did the manufacture keep the inventory in an environment that wouldn't let it degrade in some way? I agree with RichH and pay the $2 more for geniune Yanmar filters. Helps me sleep better-how much do you pay for Ambien?
 
A

Andy

Quality ALL the way down the line

If you buy off on the post that Ahlstrom of Finland makes ALL the paper, wouldn't you think that Ahlstrom sells different qualities too? And so what if it IS the same paper, did the manufacture keep the inventory in an environment that wouldn't let it degrade in some way? I agree with RichH and pay the $2 more for geniune Yanmar filters. Helps me sleep better-how much do you pay for Ambien?
 
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