Long Distance Boat Buying

[OldCat]

Given where I live - CO - I might not find the boat that I am looking for locally.Do surveyors do quick inspections? What I have in mind is something less than a full survey just to establish if a boat is worth more effort & to establish value. Something a surveyor could do when he was in that area - to save on travel fees? Schedule could be real flexible - with no purchase contract on the boat, if it took a few weeks to be convienient for the surveyor it would be OK.Normally I'd do this part myself - but my travel costs could be a bunch more than 2-3 hours of a surveyor's time.This is not to replace a regular survey after an offer - just to deal with the long distance part of the buying process.Ideas? Comments?

 

[jaysweet]

Search

Oldcat: try searching the last couple of weeks for survey and surveyor. I recall reading something from a surveyor (I believe) recently, which detailed 4 different levels of survey. It might have been in the archives, but I don't think so. I get a hit on the title "types of survey" by Gord May on 8/15/05, but for some reason, the article comes up blank when I click on it. Maybe you'll have better luck...

 

[Sherry]

Sounds like a great idea

I just bought my H30 this summer. While shopping, I considered some boats in other parts of the country. But it was so difficult to pre-qualify them enough to even determine if I wanted to go look at them. I even had one broker get really irritated with me because I asked so many questions before I would agree to come see the boat (4 hours away). He just kept saying 'that will be answered when you have the survey done'. Well, I didn't want to shell out the bucks for a full survey until I had at least the pre-qualifying questions answered. So I finally drove there and pre-surveyed it myself. For others that were farther away than I could easily drive, I had a check list of questions, and most brokers were good about answering them and sending all the pictures I requested, too. But still not as good as having an impartial third party put eyes on it.I think if you could do what you said - get a surveyor, especially if you can find one right there at the lake so you don't pay travel costs, to take a quick look with some pre-defined screening questions to be answered - it might be a real time and money saver.But ultimately, you're just going to have to see it for yourself.Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[John Nantz]

Depends on Surveyor

Many surveyors will not do a pre-survey for liability reasons. The excuses that I got were things like you could buy the boat based on the pre-survey then there could be a problem whereby they get sued, etc. One thing you don't want to do is pay to have the boat hauled, pressure washed, and have a full survey which can cost well over a thousand bucks only to find things that are show stoppers. At this point you've got a pretty big investment and to walk away really hurts so the seller in some respect has you over a barrel. Don't get yourself in that situation and keep looking until you find a surveyor who will agree to a pre-survey, something like an hours work, say, nothing in writing, and if you go forward then maybe get a partial discount on the full survey.The other option is to get the seller to agree to pay for the survey if something pre-identified is found: blisters, water in the deck, or what ever it is you specified that you don't like. Unfortunately I doubt you'll find a seller that will do that.Recommend doing the best job you can yourself, get input from the broker (seller or buyer broker), preferably in writing, before you expend money, time, and effort going to the next level. Develop check lists and learn about things that can be a problem and how they can be repaired. Network with people with sister ships to find what the good, bad, and the ugly is that they have to report about that model.What you really want to avoid is the big-ticket items (hull, deck, engine, sails, etc.) and the "little" unexpected ones (even those get a little expensive) just plan on eating those costs. And for owner add-ons, make sure they were properly done. I've seen many and owner add-on where they butchered the project but were so proud about their work you couldn't believe. Sometimes it costs more to un-do the mess they made. Owner installed speakers in the cockpit where the owner cut in large holes that compromise seaworthness and mess up the compass is a good example. Can you imagine the cost, time, and effort to patch those holes? Large holes cut in the structural grid is another.Shoping for a boat, new or used, can be a lot of work, and doing it from a distance makes it even worse. It's difficulties like this that make buying a new boat an option worth considering.Good luck in your search.

 

[Charlie Gruetzner - BeneteauOwners.net]

Long Distance Buying

You might find a few surveyors that will do a quick look see for you. I know of one here in New York that does it and if you decide to go forward with a full prepurchase survey that money is deducted from the survey price. I personally, don't offer that service especially on larger boats, since there are too many things that need to be checked and I don't feel that a cursory inspection is in the clients' best interest. I would recommend that you keep looking until something feels right and move forwardGood LuckCharlie

 

[Charlie Gruetzner - BeneteauOwners.net]

Types of Surveys

Jay, there are four types of surveys that are the most commonPrepurchase This is the most comprehensive type of inspection and is strongly advised when purchasing a new or used vessel. Conditiona and overall operation of the vessel should be examined. This covers structural integrity, elctrical systems, the propulsion system, the fuel system. other machinery, navigation equipment, cosmetic appearance, electronics and overall maintenance as well as an out of water inspection and sea trial.Insurance survey or sometimes called a condition and valuation survey is performed so that the insurance company can determine whether or not the vessel is an acceptable risk. They are interested un structural integrity and safety for its intended use. Most insurance companies require a survey on older boats (ten years) They also want to know the vessel's fair market value.An appraisal survey is to gather enough information to justify or determine the fair market value of the vessel. This normally needed for financing, estate stettlements, donations and legal cases.A damage survey is performed to assess the extent of damage, recommended repair costs. and if requessted, possible causeI hope this answers your questionCharlie

 

[OldCat]

Why?

Charlie wrote: "there are too many things that need to be checked and I don't feel that a cursory inspection is in the clients' best interest."Why? I am NOT trying to substitute the cursory exam for a full survey - I am trying to cut the cost of that first look. If the boat that I am interested is in - say New York or Los Angeles - then I need to fly out from Denver. The plane tik is $250, add 1-2 nights hotel, car rental, airport transportation to Denver or parking and the cost for me to look at it is $400+.I am more than a little leary about travelling based on a broker's description - I've seen condition statements on local boats that - shall we say - weren't accurate from a buyer's perspective?If say - at the cost of 2 hours of someone's time (which I pay for) - I get a go/no go for a deeper look - that is probably cheaper than me flying out on a broker's lie - ah, er, excuse me, difference of opinion regarding condition. I would travel to see the boat myself before an offer, but with a pre-inspect at least I'd know it wasn't a total dog first.I'd expect to have done (and pay for) a full survey prior to deal conclusion. I would not expect a discount on the full survey - as I had clearly spent extra time on the Surveyor's part for the initial consultancy. Also - might not the initial look be ahelp in setting an offering price?

 

[OldCat]

Thanx, Sherry and John

For your replies, very hepful.I tend to agree with you , John, if the boat is far away - then I need a surveyor who will agree to the pre-survey,Sherry: Which Hunter 30 - 1st or 2nd generation, do you have? These boats are 'on my list' - right about the (really) high end of what I can trailer. You seem to be at a lake - do you have a trailer? And - are you happy with the boat?Thanks Again, OldCat

 

[Sherry]

My boat

OldCat,I have a 1992 - the '2nd gen' model. So far I love it, but I haven't done much sailing since I bought it mid-July. We are having an exceptionally hot, dry, not much wind summer here. My lake is Pickwick, which is 52 miles of the Tennessee River between Wilson and Pickwick dams. The Tennessee Tombigbee Waterway runs out of my lake, giving me access to a waterway that runs thru MS and AL to Mobile Bay and the Gulf of Mexico.I do not have a trailer and, personally, wouldn't consider an H30 a trailerable boat based on width and weight. Would its beam put it in the wide load category, with special permits required for on the road? I don't know - have never considered it. You know alot more about it than I do, I'm sure. Also, I've been told that stepping the mast requires a crane - not sure how that works with trailering, especially if you plan to go to a lake without a well equipped marina. Our lake doesn't freeze (except in the very shallow creeks) in even the coldest of winters, so we leave our boats in the water year round here.As for the boat, what I really wanted to buy, primarily for budget reasons, was a Hunter 28. Alot of boat for the $$$, in my opinion. It's very well laid out and roomy. To compare it to the H30 - a couple of main differences. The v-berth in the H28 does not have a private door, and you have to climb in over the dinette settee; H30 is separate area w/door. The aft berth does have a door leading to its area; H30 does not. And the head is a bit more spacious; rather than having a shower seat that folds down over the toilet (H30), it has a separate little nook with a shower seat, which opens it up a bit. Anyway, the H28 might be a boat for you to consider if it would be more trailerable. Others also love H28.5. I personally didn't care for the interior lay-out - smaller head, much smaller aft berth. But I understand it is a faster boat.One note on the H30, if it has the original aluminimum holding tank, plan on replacing it sooner rather than later. This is a known trouble spot for the H30. Life expectancy of the tank is about 10 years. It's not a question of IF it will leak but WHEN.Anyway, I ended up with the H30 because I couldn't find an acceptable H28 anywhere near me. (There's one for sale in TN that I looked at; email me if you want info about it.) So I concluded that by the time I went to visit and bought one 500 to 1000 miles away and had it shipped here plus did whatever improvements it needed, I was close to the same amount of $ as the H30 which was available on my home lake.That's a rather lengthy answer to a short question, but I hope it helps. Good luck!Sherryp.s. I have my checklist of questions to ask to pre-qualify the boat. Email me if you're interested. I'm in the directory.

 

[Sherry]

oldcat - an option

Oldcat,I just noticed a Hunter 280 with trailer posted for sale on this site. It's in TN, but I don't know anything about it. Looks like a Nashville area code - 4 hours away from me.Thought you might be interested.Sherry