Lobster Pots

Feb 10, 2004
4,096
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
Rich: "...needless death to lobsters....". What do you think happens to them when the pot is pulled and they find themselves at a restaurant immersed in boiling water?
Well, yes of course that is the final result. I just meant that I think it is wrong to kill any animal just for the sake of killing or sport. If you are going to use the kill for food, that is acceptable and a different story. Creating an abandoned trap where lobsters starve to death vs a quick death in boiling water is not something I feel OK with.
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,048
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Rich: "...needless death to lobsters....". What do you think happens to them when the pot is pulled and they find themselves at a restaurant immersed in boiling water?
Might "wasteful" be a better descriptor?
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Years ago I used to work with a guy who worked part time as a Coastguard radio monitor. He told me that one year in Boston they ordered all lobster men to pull their pots on a particular day and then the coast guard hauled up and discarded all the rest. He said there were many abandoned traps out there. In Quincy bay you will often see an old clorox bottle or similar being used as a pot float. How many are abandoned? No one knows.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I refer to toggles as Yacht Traps. These crazy lobster men are filling up the channels and the anchorages in Maine. When were the waterways ceded to them? Suppose someone decided to place have a heart traps all over the highways to catch rabbits. Would we tolerate that? Something needs to be done.

Here in Maine there are no restrictions on where traps can be placed. The lobstermen go after the bugs where ever they are, as they are allowed to under Maine Law... They assume the risk, and accept it, when placing traps in channels etc.. The reality is that here in Maine the lobstermen were here long before pleasure boats thus the laws are still on their side. It's a lucrative industry for a State that openly discourages industry, thus no one is going to change the laws to impact the lobsterman.

A rumor some of the elder lobstermen in Maine like to tell is that back in the 70's or 80s' one of the powerful "summer folk" on MDI got their panties in a knot over trap placement. With their money and influence they got a State rep or Senator to author a bill, don't know that it was even voted on yet, limiting trap placement.

Rumor has it the State rep or Senators house burned to the ground "mysteriously". The lobstermen in Maine a crazy bunch of real McCoy cowboys and they are both powerful and deadly. They have shot & murdered one another and even occasionally sunk competitors boats. I had one of my customers run down in the Muscle Ridge when he was stand on. Did about $12,000.00 damage to his freshly Awl gripped boat and the lobsterman got a slap on the wrist.

When I was a commercial lobsterman, in my teens, I had a sawed off shotgun pulled on my by one of the notorious lobster coalitions out of Portsmouth NH. I got the message and moved my traps. I also had a gun "waived" at me by one of teh guys out of Seabrook. These guys don't mess around...

FWIW traps are not increasing. They have only shrunk since the 1980's. Lobstermen have strict trap limits depending upon the zone. Of course they move where the bugs are so at times it may seem like there are more but there are just more in a particular area than another because the bugs are there and the lobstermen follow the bugs.

Personally I tend to like it, it keeps the yahoo's away.(wink) We normally do about 1000 +/- nm per season and have not had an incident in 4 or 5 years. The move about 10 years ago, to do away with floating warp, has helped immensely with the that issue. As Rich said, the hook-knife is key. When cruising Pen Bay, where the toggles, are it remains in my fishing rod holder, on the stern push pit, for quick and easy access.

I don't have Spurs or a cutter. Too dangerous when or if you need to dive, first hand experience, as they are not a 100% guarantee.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Here's a couple of posts from a few years ago that may help:

They also limit the number of commercial licenses. What has change slightly is the lobstermen are now aided by computers and equipment that can now track the bugs better, and, they go where the bugs are. This is why some areas seem so thick and it appears there are more traps. The record catch was with the same trap limits we've had for years. It was just a great year for bugs.

As an ex-commercial lobsterman I would suggest a hook knife as your first line of defense. Sailors Solutions sells them and they WORK. The WORST thing you can do to a lobsterman is to spend time trying to free his gear from your boat while the wind or current are dragging his string across 6 or 7 other strings.

Cutting a $4.00-$10.00 pot buoy is much less costly to the fisherman than dragging his string over multiple other guys and costing them hours of work untangling plus the hundreds of feet of tangled warp..

These guys almost always run a pot buoy at either end of string and the odds both will be cut are extremely rare. Never happened to me and I fished traps at the mouth of the Piscataqua river in NH/Maine which is and was very heavily traveled.

Sailing among them is not difficult but does require more attention than most are used to, especially if you're not from Maine.

The worst thing is the floating warp that gets sucked off the beaches and back into the water after a moon tide. This warp was often discarded when lobsterman were dealing with string tangles, often caused by boaters dragging their gear across the bottom.. Thankfully floating warp has been banned but there is still plenty of it out there on shorelines that wind up back in the bays after a moon tide. If you hit it, floating warp, you'll have never seen it until it is too late and Spurs and shaft cutters DO NOT always work on these balls of poly line, nor do hook knifes....

I personally dislike line cutters and no longer use them as they are not 100% effective. I actually cut myself very badly when I had to dive on one and it was about 1cm from my main artery in my wrist. They can be VERY dangerous if they fail to cut the line and you need to dive. If you sail in Maine you should be prepared to get in the water.

When diving it's a good idea to wear a dive hood to lessen the impact of head bangs on the underside of the hull. I once tore a huge chunk of skin off my head when the hull came smashing down on it in lumpy seas. I also always dive with the knife on a lanyard and a safety line tied to a stern cleat. This is a line I can grab easily if off shore or in lots of current. Drooping a dock line from the port stern cleat to stbd stern cleat under the boat fore of the rudder, on fin keels, gives you a good place to hang onto while cutting line from the prop. This can work on full keels too but you just need to go deeper with the line.

When sailboats snag a pot on a shaft or rudder, and think they are doing a favor by trying to get it off without cutting it, they usually are only making things worse.

Today's wire traps are very light weight and dragging ten of them is no problem for a boat with sails up or one in wind and current. Often times what happens is the boat drifts, and drags the the string across a few others. This makes a HUGE, HUGE mess!!

I used to run pot buoys on both ends of my string, as most all fisherman do. Not once did I ever loose both ends at the same time. Replacing a pot buoy is FAR cheaper than loosing 300 feet of warp to a tangle and the time involved in re-rigging a string..

Toggles:

As far as toggles go the old excuse is that they are used to keep the line from tangling the bottom or a rock. This is pure BS.. This excuse is worn out and is not even close to why they actually use them. Most fisherman use them out of habit & history and because the more they use them the more pot buoys they lose due to line cuts. It is a self fulfilling/defeating idea. If they used no toggles, as they do in Casco Bay & points West of Muscongus, they would lose a lot less pot buoys. Sadly old habits die hard and fishermen are a stale & crusty old bunch whom are also very, very resistant to change. They keep using toggles so that when the main pot buoy gets cut they can still boat hook the toggle. Sadly we have not one State rep or Senator with the balls to take this subject on.

If you want to see just how much BS the "keep the line off the bottom" theory is just note how many of the toggles are still floating & laying rather flat on the surface at high tide. Based on teh argument for toggle buoy use that toggle should be 10-14 feel below the surface at high tide to keep the line off the bottom.

I have actually argued against the use of these toggles, from a boater safety standpoint, and as an ex-commercial fisherman, to my state rep and Senator, but they were both was unwilling to submit a bill to ban them. I know others who've done the same. There is zero legitimate reason for their use, they way they are currently used, and they only lead to more pot buoys being cut off. Thus, the fisherman think they are a good idea, and the viscous circle begins again..;)

Far less pot buoys are cut off in areas where they don't use them. In my thousands & thousands of pulls, without toggles, I never once had a line snag the bottom, ever. Toggles are pure BS..


Here are a few tips on how to deal with lobster pots:

#1 ALWAYS try to pass to the down current, down wind or down tide side of the pot buoy. Never intentionally pass above a lobster pot unless you absolutely know you have the room to do so. They have an uncanny way of letting you know which way is up current, wind or tide and which way is down. Follow the stick or the wake..

This one is pointing or angled towards "down tide" so you'll pass to where the stick leans or points. This is about a 1.5 knot current at the mouth of Penobscot Bay and well off Vinalhaven and Northhaven Islands. We were miles from the nearest land yet Pen Bay has HUGE amounts of water to spill & fill and he currents can run miles out to sea.. Never intentionally pass a pot like this to the up tide or up current side!!!


#2 Wear polarized sunglasses! My daughter had grabbed my Maui Jim's and got "snack goo" all over them. Rather than clean them I stupidly grabbed my "guest" pair of sunglasses, a non-polarized pair of Ray Ban's.

As you can see we almost hit this pot that was pulled under by the tidal current. My maneuver was late because I never saw it until the absolute last second. At that point I had no choice but to turn hard stbd and pass to the up-current side which as you can see could have been very dangerous. Again, wear polarized sunglasses. You will see these submerged pots well before you will with non-polarized glasses. My camera had a polarizing filter so I snapped that as we passed.


#3 Just because it's calm does not mean the pots are not still trying to tell you something. Current & tide still exists even in flat glass conditions. Note the direction of the "sticks"...


#4 It may be calm but this pot has a decent current flowing by it. Just look at the "wake" made by the buoy..


The Guy From "Away" Quote:
I passed too close to a lobster guy and he was swearing at me and really pissed off. How do I avoid pissing these guys off?
First you need to look for his or her "colors" then spot his/her pots on the water and as a courtesy. For your own safety you should remember that many of these guys are outlaw cowboys, get away from them as the boat is likely moving to the next pot that matches the displayed colors and they could care less where you are or where you're going. COLREGS don't apply to these guys, as they see it.

Lobstermen are required to display their "colors" or one of their own pot buoys mounted up high on the boat so it can be seen.
Note the pot buoy above the radome:


Note the "colors" on the port side wheel house roof:


Note the "colors" laying on the wheel house roof behind the spot light & hanging dead center also look on the water and you'll see two more of his/her pots.. stay away from them:


Pot buoy/colors located on stern end port side of wheel house roof:


When you see a lobster boat with a deck full of 3-8 traps be very cautious as they could be ready to "lay a string". Depeding upon the zone all the trap strings will always be laid in a compass course. In this area it is NW to SE. You can often spot the end string pot buoys once you line up the correct coordinates.

This guy was ready to lay a short string so I grabbed my camera to film it. We can see the sudden turn to line up and head NW. The end string buoy goes out first, already dragging behind the boat, then the fist trap and then the successive traps are automatically yanked off the stern as the boat moves in the lay direction. Finally the last end string buoy is pulled or tossed over.

DO NOT GET IN THE WAY OF A GUY LAYING A STRING!!!! HE WILL LIKELY PLOW YOU OVER.
 
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Bob S

.
Sep 27, 2007
1,797
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I've had to dive on my prop twice in 8 years. Our waters are generally in the 70's which is not bad but in Maine I can't even imagine. It can take multiple dives lasting 10+ minutes to clear a good snag.
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Read in the paper the other day that China is fast developing a taste for Maine lobsters. Expect to see about a million more pots deployed to respond to this increasing market. I guess I will give the wife a wet suit for her next birthday.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Read in the paper the other day that China is fast developing a taste for Maine lobsters. Expect to see about a million more pots deployed to respond to this increasing market. I guess I will give the wife a wet suit for her next birthday.
There won't be any more in Maine nor any additional licenses. Trap limits are 800 down from 1200 in 1998. Trap limits have been controlled since the 80's...
 
Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
Well, yes of course that is the final result. I just meant that I think it is wrong to kill any animal just for the sake of killing or sport. If you are going to use the kill for food, that is acceptable and a different story. Creating an abandoned trap where lobsters starve to death vs a quick death in boiling water is not something I feel OK with.
I believe all traps are required to have doors that fall open with time if left abandoned. Never the less lobster traps are frequently lost for other reasons. The more lobster fishing, the more lobsters there are as the traps are also feeding stations for the smaller ones who have no trouble coming and going while the really big ones can't get in so there is only short window that they are catchable.
I never understood the fear losing one trap would cause some waterman to strave. They lose traps for many reasons. Here in the Chesapeake they like to paint their floats black or dark green. Given the possible damage to my boat or serious injury to crew loss of a old trap is a non issue. Those who enjoyed MSs post above (thank you MS) might enjoy the book Lobster Gangs.
 
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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Creating an abandoned trap where lobsters starve to death vs a quick death in boiling water is not something I feel OK with.
I have seen video of lobster traps on History or Discovery channel, and it shows many lobster going in and OUT of the traps. Sort of like catching a lobster is based on the luck of the draw which lobster happens to be in the pot when you pull it up. 'Cos later on, that lobster would probably leave the pot.
 
Nov 26, 2008
1,970
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
I read that when it was discovered that lobster can easily escape a trap, Maine made that type of trap mandatory. So lobster can get in and out. One theory of the boom in lobster is that the lobstermen are feeding them with the bait inside the trap. Lobster goes in, eats, leaves. Losterman have to haul at just the right time.

As for diving on your boat...I carry a bike helmet for diving in rough water. A bobbing boat can knock you out!!

And all of you on the Chesapeake or Florida or anywhere other than Maine...you ain't seen nuthin! The most crowded fields I have ever seen on the Ches or Florida Bay have about 10% of the number of many places in Maine.
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,865
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Well, yes of course that is the final result. I just meant that I think it is wrong to kill any animal just for the sake of killing or sport. If you are going to use the kill for food, that is acceptable and a different story. Creating an abandoned trap where lobsters starve to death vs a quick death in boiling water is not something I feel OK with.
It is not a "quick death". It is a slow and painful death. Makes the starvation death look good.
P.S. I don't eat lobster.
 
Jun 23, 2013
271
Beneteau 373 Newport
First, thank you Main for the info to all who might be thinking of sailing in Maine.
Having been there, sailors from other areas may not be familiar with the toggle - DON'T sail between the two floats!
FYI on the power of the lobsterman, back in 2005 we were fortunate to be in Protland for Navy Week. If I remember correctly with the large USN ship to be visiting there was a proposal to have the trap owners remove them for the weekend - result NO WAY.
So watch out and also remember this is their livelihood and channels will have pots and working lobster boats crossing.
OH, you will enjoy your visit.
 
Jun 23, 2013
271
Beneteau 373 Newport
I'm not from Maine or a Maine lobster ( so Maineacs please correct me) but hopefully I have this correct as a sailor to this beautiful area.
Because of the huge tides there are two floats at the ends of the trap line. So at high tide only one is on the surface, but at low there will be two with the line between them.
Motoring between the floats =
 
Nov 26, 2008
1,970
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
there is a line from the trap to the first buoy, then there is a "toggle" to a second buoy. That toggle is between 10' and 25' long. I have passed between 2 buoys, over the toggle line and not snagged a line but you should never purposely do that! And at high tide, the first pot is often still at the surface. It's strong current that will pull the first buoy under .
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I had an occasion to do Aerial safety patrol in Narraganset bay when the Naval Underwater Lab was performing torpedo tests. (Chart One clearly shows the torpedo test area). The Navy would take all of the lobster pots and corral them onto a buoy clear of the test range. One more than one occasion I observed a Lobster boat cruise right into the test area and up to the buoy and begin to gather up his pots just as the test was beginning ( it was always announced well in advance) or they would just cruise right into the middle of the test as if to say...(up yours Navy boys)...always an exciting time