Living the life..

[Tim R.]

So @Tim, Q: effectively you're saying the heavier the better? I was under the impression that bigger would give the boat more stability, and lighter more agility..!? fyi, I picket the Beneteau First 50 because I loved everything about it, but then the Oceanis because I can't realistically affort the First! I've sailed with Beneteaus and Hunters and enjoyed both.

I am not saying that. I am saying that you should be considering heavier displacement boats if you plan to cross oceans. Beneteau Firsts are nice boats but I would not consider them heavy displacement. Regular Beneteaus or Oceanis models are coastal cruisers. Again, not sufficient(in my opinion) for crossing oceans. I have chartered a few Oceanis's and and have sailed on other Beneteaus.

 

[higgs]

I think you would do well to do some reading. Pardys were mentioned, but other long distance cruisers are Nigel Caulder, Don Street, Fatty Goodwin (Cruising World monthly column. I am sure others can suggest names. These people do it.

 

[John Nantz]

Learning: A long way to go

Boat type considerations: With regard to design, not all sailboats are equal and there are tradeoffs. For cruising, the generally acknowledged more comfortable boats are the ones with longer keels because they track better. A boat sailing downwind in anything other than dead downwind will wallow back and forth and a longer keel will do better for tracking and this translates to improved comfort.

A fin keel, while not as good at tracking, is generally considered faster but as author Larry Pardey (full keel skipper) points out, the hare doesn't always beat the tortoise. Bottom line, there is more to traveling by sailboat than speed.

Cost: A new sail-away boat is often closer to a kit boat than a cruiser, something more suited as a floating condo where one can cast off from the dock and go to another dock. If an anchor and rode is included it is probably good only in fairly light winds <35kts but not a really good blow.

A few years ago I looked at a Fairweather Mariner 39 that a guy from landlocked Idaho had bought to fulfill his lifelong retirement dream of sailing the oceans. He had been outfitting it and had never left San Francisco Bay. When I saw it, it was for sale due to health reasons. Come to find out, he had spent over $100,000 just for outfitting her and, still not finished, he quit keeping track.

Maintenance: This is never ending. Starting with a brand new boat, every stainless steel fastener in aluminum should be removed and protectant applied to prevent galvanic corrosion. If this isn't done, in a few years the ability to remove that fastener becomes problematic, the head will twist off and what is left will have to be drilled out and re-tapped. Running and standing rigging, and sails, needs to be periodically replaced. A cruised-on or liveaboard boat gets much more wear and tear because it is used more.

And with global warming, it appears that storms are becoming more violent.

 

[Beyond_the_Arc]

Don't forget, it's illegal to work in another country so you just can't sail into a country and pick up a part time job. Also, when talking to people about what it cost to cruise, you have to understand there is a hugh difference between just going to the Islands for 3-6 months verses going around the world for 5-7 years.

@Franklin: Your assumption re working overseas is patently incorrect--sorry for being so blunt. I have a daughter who will be working in Germany this year for a German organization, and several family members and friends who have worked for foreign concerns in foreign contries over the years. One's tax situation may be interesting and the OP is probably well advised to consider work permits, visas, etc, when contemplating such endeavors; however, many folks do it and do it successfully.

As to the second part, anecdotally, last spring we met an engaging couple from South Africa who had just come on the 'hard' to rest & re-fit their 35' boat. They'd spent the previous 5 years sailing the world with the two youngest kids (two older ones were in college), home-schooling them and working their way literally around the world. Seemed to be doing OK and they were doing most of the re-fit on their own (boat was on a slab in front of the garage while the husband worked). FWIW, the subject of pirates came up and their experience/advice was to essentially avoid the more dangerous areas of the world--and the 'afloat community' could provide sufficient suggestion as to what that entailed in almost any region.

 

[Ross]

Besides cruising books there are several excellent technical books that are worthy of your time. Cruising Sailboat Kinetics by Danny Greene N.A. is a good place to start. Hal Roth wrote several books worth owning and reading more than once. C.J. Marchaj wrote Seaworthiness- the Forgotten Factor. Dave Gerr wrote The Nature of Boats. There is a shelf full of other worthy books to find.

 

[John]

size vs. construction

Heheh! I'm definitely keen for a little duck hunting!!

I've got a very pacifist attitude, I'm easy going, however I'm not going to just surrender my floating house without a bit of a fight!

Q: how is a smaller vessel going to handle rough seas?!
Also, if I want to maybe charter a little, a little bigger is probably a little better..?! I'll look into mid-30s ft perhaps..

I am far from an expert on sail boats, but my impression is that handling rough seas is not only a matter of size (which does count), but also construction of the boat. If your budget is limited, this means that you probably cannot afford a heavily-constructed larger boat - one built for blue water cruising. In that case, I'd go for such a boat, but smaller.

On the guns issue - I agree the matter has been beaten to death, but it's also a matter of psychology. Some people could take another person's life without a second thought - or so they say. I, personally, would be able to if I had to, but it would haunt me for the rest of my life, even if I knew I'd done the right thing. If you have a "pacifist attitude", then I'd say carrying a gun is most definitely a mistake as it means you'd probably hesitate to use it. It's that split second hesitation that will get you killed.

 

[Ross]

Heheh! I'm definitely keen for a little duck hunting!!

I've got a very pacifist attitude, I'm easy going, however I'm not going to just surrender my floating house without a bit of a fight!

Q: how is a smaller vessel going to handle rough seas?!
Also, if I want to maybe charter a little, a little bigger is probably a little better..?! I'll look into mid-30s ft perhaps..

I am far from an expert on sail boats, but my impression is that handling rough seas is not only a matter of size (which does count), but also construction of the boat. If your budget is limited, this means that you probably cannot afford a heavily-constructed larger boat - one built for blue water cruising. In that case, I'd go for such a boat, but smaller." [end quote]

Donna Lange sailed around alone with three stops in a Southern Cross 28. Ken Barnes threw in the towel on his attempt in a 44 foot steel ketch after about 5000 miles. The size of the boat isn't as important as the toughness of the skipper.
http://www.donnalange.com/

Edit to change link.

 

[delstanton]

I think you are thinking both too big and too complex. I seriously suggest you read Voyaging on a Small Income by Annie Hill. Read it and read it until you get its message.

Don't go in debt to buy your boat. A 26 to 32 foot boat is more than big enough for you and any possible partners you find on your way.

With one or two persons you don't need a water maker. You can easily carry enough water in plastic jerry cans. A hand held GPS will give you your location anywhere in the world. I have a Garmin Geko (meant for HIKERS!) that normally sells for $120. It gives me accurate lat and long within 50 ft anywhere on the globe. (You might buy a spare Gecko and test both from time to time.) Do buy a sextant and learn to use it.

Everything you have on you boat can and will cause trouble and cost money. So go as simply as possible. A small gas or diesel auxiliary and one starting battery. One battery and keep on top of it, clean the terminals, check electrolyte levels and specific gravity. If you properly maintain a single battery it will be a totally reliable source of starting power. One small solar panel - 20 to 50 watts - to keep it charged. Use a simple solar charge controller and connect any 12 volt DC load (other than starter and ignition - if a gasoline engine) through that controller. It will shut off all the loads if the battery voltage drops to 10.5 to 11 volts. That is you protection against a short in your navigation light system leaving you with a totally dead battery. A handheld VHF transceiver. A propane cook stove, a small bottle will last one person about 9 month. Rather than buying a deepwater depthfinder scout the local fishing supply stores and buy a fish finder that plots the depth on an liquid crystal screen for about $250.

NO refrigerator, (at least none that you plan to use at sea) learn to live without while sailiing. Refrigerators seem to cause more trouble than any other boat system.

Minimal wiring and no shore electrical panel, Use an extension cord and a cube tap for shore power. 12 volt DC wiring only. Electrical systems on boats can be a source of continual trouble. In a used boat previous owners may have done this and that, often done poorly. Shore electrical panel and AC wiring on boats is there to make home and apartment dwellers feel secure. I would rip it all out. I would study the 12 volt DC wiring in detail and go over it with an expert on marine electrics and simplify it as much as possible. Change incandescent navigation and anchor lights to LEDs.

Keep It Simple Sweetie and you will hear other sailers having endless trouble with things you don't even HAVE and be able to quietly smile.

 

[tsmwebb]

...For cruising, the generally acknowledged more comfortable boats are the ones with longer keels because they track better. A boat sailing downwind in anything other than dead downwind will wallow back and forth and a longer keel will do better for tracking and this translates to improved comfort.

"Generally acknowledged" may be a little strong. The questions of what makes a comfortable sea boat and the advantages of short keels over long are very much debatable. AFIK, there is no evidence that full keel boats as a class track better than fin keel boats. Many people take it as axiomatic, but IME some full keeled yachts are a handful to steer and some fin keel spade rudder boats run like they're on rails. Your assertion about the relative rolling or wallowing of full keel v fin downwind also runs counter to my experience. In any case, I'd be wary of broad generalizations about designs.

--Tom.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Resources

"Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts" John Rousmaniere Norton, 1987 older book but still valuable for what to look for in all systems

"Cruising Handbook" Nigel Calder good boat requirement book for offshore yachts

Steve & Linda Dashew have also written very good books on the subject

There are many others. This question si kinda llike asking "what's the best boat for me?"; a question no one but you can answer.

Do some research and hoemwork given the variety of issues that have been addressed in writing by those who have been out there.

Oh, there's also Eric & Susan Hiscock's series of books.

The list is endless, start reading.

 

[Pocahontas]

You can allways get a work permit, in most countries they are a lot easier to obtain then in the USA. Espceially if it is limited to just a few month

 

[Franklin]

What does this mean? I just don't get this statement. Maybe it's just not worded right

He was talking about doing odd jobs as he cruises. One can't just sail into a new country and pick up a job...it's illegal in most countries for people under a tourist visa to work. So I was just trying to help him understand he can't just sail to some Island and pick up work for a couple months to fill his kitty.

 

[Franklin]

@Franklin: Your assumption re working overseas is patently incorrect--sorry for being so blunt....probably well advised to consider work permits....

Yes, a work permit is required but not always easy to get. Many places want the sailors to come in and bring in money, not take money out. Money is the reason they love seeing sailor come into port.

 

[Ross]

He will need very desirable marketable skills that are not common.