I want to live on a sailboat...any thoughts? What should I look for in general when searching for a boat as far as length and amenities...I am somewhat new to sailing, but am looking for a change of pace and lifestyle...and I can't spend more than $75000...what are my options? Any information would be highly usefull and my plans are to stay on the west coast probably san diego...thanks everyone...
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wow
Wow, That is an incredibly big question!...Well, It requires an incredibly big answer, at least...hahaha My best suggestion is to read, read, read...Go to the bookstore, and get a couple of books on the subject...Lin & Larry Pardey are a great place to start...Sail magazine has several books on the subject...If you dont prefer to read...stroll the local dock and ask around...I'm sure you will find a wealth of info, and possibly offers to help find a suitable floating home... Everything in boating is give & take...75G's will get a fair boat, but there is more to it than that...look for something in the 40G area, so you have some cushion to play with, and learn on...better yet, if you're handy, find one in the 10G range...and put the rest in the bank...you're gonna need it...But when you're done you will be much happier with the result...maybe... Sit down and decide what you need in a boat...then go read a couple of books, talk to a few folks...read some more, see what kind of boats are available...then refer to your list again...I bet it will have changed quite a bit! Learn, read, talk...every chance you get...The more you know, the more you know. (you know?) ;-) Good luck! Skip
Wow, That is an incredibly big question!...Well, It requires an incredibly big answer, at least...hahaha My best suggestion is to read, read, read...Go to the bookstore, and get a couple of books on the subject...Lin & Larry Pardey are a great place to start...Sail magazine has several books on the subject...If you dont prefer to read...stroll the local dock and ask around...I'm sure you will find a wealth of info, and possibly offers to help find a suitable floating home... Everything in boating is give & take...75G's will get a fair boat, but there is more to it than that...look for something in the 40G area, so you have some cushion to play with, and learn on...better yet, if you're handy, find one in the 10G range...and put the rest in the bank...you're gonna need it...But when you're done you will be much happier with the result...maybe... Sit down and decide what you need in a boat...then go read a couple of books, talk to a few folks...read some more, see what kind of boats are available...then refer to your list again...I bet it will have changed quite a bit! Learn, read, talk...every chance you get...The more you know, the more you know. (you know?) ;-) Good luck! Skip
In addition......
In addition to where you will be cruissing, the real question is 'when'? I say forget about reading. Its a fantasy thing. Talk to live-aboards and cruisers, they will give you better info than Lynn and Larry. Lynn and larry will tell you how to live on $5 a day. That dont mean they ever did it themselves. Some of the best info from live-aboards is when you see their lifestyle. Then you will determine not what you want, but what you DONT want in a lifestyle. Liveaboards come in all sizes and flavors. Everything from the wealthy down to the worthless derelicts. If you have $75K to spend, I would suggest you buy a nice 36 to 38 footer about 20 years old in very good condition for about 60K and have 15K to put into it immediately. No matter how good a shape its in, things will go bad from lack of use by the previous owner. This will happen in 2 to 4 months, so have the money handy. I have lived on a Catalina 25, which was really roughing it, but me and my wife loved every minute of it. Then we bought a Catalina 30 and thought we died and went to heaven. We now have an older 39 ft. Allied. The inside of a 36 Hunter or Catalina seems so much bigger than mine, but they lack long term travel storage. All boats are for different purposes. If you are going to be coastal cruising, get a Catalina or Hunter. Much more comfy for living than my 39. If you are new to sailing, I wouldnt consider anything but a Hunter or Catalina. If you decide that the size you bought is not right for you, you can easily sell a Hunter or catalina.
In addition to where you will be cruissing, the real question is 'when'? I say forget about reading. Its a fantasy thing. Talk to live-aboards and cruisers, they will give you better info than Lynn and Larry. Lynn and larry will tell you how to live on $5 a day. That dont mean they ever did it themselves. Some of the best info from live-aboards is when you see their lifestyle. Then you will determine not what you want, but what you DONT want in a lifestyle. Liveaboards come in all sizes and flavors. Everything from the wealthy down to the worthless derelicts. If you have $75K to spend, I would suggest you buy a nice 36 to 38 footer about 20 years old in very good condition for about 60K and have 15K to put into it immediately. No matter how good a shape its in, things will go bad from lack of use by the previous owner. This will happen in 2 to 4 months, so have the money handy. I have lived on a Catalina 25, which was really roughing it, but me and my wife loved every minute of it. Then we bought a Catalina 30 and thought we died and went to heaven. We now have an older 39 ft. Allied. The inside of a 36 Hunter or Catalina seems so much bigger than mine, but they lack long term travel storage. All boats are for different purposes. If you are going to be coastal cruising, get a Catalina or Hunter. Much more comfy for living than my 39. If you are new to sailing, I wouldnt consider anything but a Hunter or Catalina. If you decide that the size you bought is not right for you, you can easily sell a Hunter or catalina.
Ready, FIRE!, Aim
Um, unless you guys can see the hidden type that I can't without my de-coder ring, daveb says NOTHING about "cruising," so I don't know where the hell you're coming up with that. Try reading before you jump in with unsolicited advice. You're answering a question that wasn't asked. All the original poster says is that he wants to live on a boat, on the west coast (mentioning San Diego specifically), and that he's relatively new to sailing. He didn't say he wanted to sail at all, though the phrase "new to sailing" implies that he will want to take his boat out at least once in a while. I'm guessing daysails and weekending. With that general focus, it's much more important that you find a boat that has living space, rather than sailing ability. The production boats mentioned (Catalina & Hunter) tend to maximize interior volume, which is good, but are notoriously skimpy on storage, so you'd better be a spartan as far as possessions, even clothing, because there's precious little space to store anything. BTW, they are better sailers than they are reputed to be). An Island Packet, though more expensive, is very liveable, and there are several other names that could give you what you are looking for. I own a Catalina 30, and I would consider it barely liveable. My friend owns the 34, which i think to be much more comfortable and spacious. Everyone has his own space/comfort threshold, but I'd say that 34ft. mark is the lower limit for me. Books can offer lifestyle info., but only you can decide what will be an adequate size for you. As for a budget, you may find that living on a boat is romantic, but inconvenient and more expensive than it may have appeared from the outside. A Catalina 34 in good condition is in the neighborhood of $50–60,000. Here's a link to one for sale lying in San Diego right now. After you get there, stay on yachtworld.com and do some searches, by price & location, and look at the photos to get an idea for what's available. Good Luck, Jeff
Um, unless you guys can see the hidden type that I can't without my de-coder ring, daveb says NOTHING about "cruising," so I don't know where the hell you're coming up with that. Try reading before you jump in with unsolicited advice. You're answering a question that wasn't asked. All the original poster says is that he wants to live on a boat, on the west coast (mentioning San Diego specifically), and that he's relatively new to sailing. He didn't say he wanted to sail at all, though the phrase "new to sailing" implies that he will want to take his boat out at least once in a while. I'm guessing daysails and weekending. With that general focus, it's much more important that you find a boat that has living space, rather than sailing ability. The production boats mentioned (Catalina & Hunter) tend to maximize interior volume, which is good, but are notoriously skimpy on storage, so you'd better be a spartan as far as possessions, even clothing, because there's precious little space to store anything. BTW, they are better sailers than they are reputed to be). An Island Packet, though more expensive, is very liveable, and there are several other names that could give you what you are looking for. I own a Catalina 30, and I would consider it barely liveable. My friend owns the 34, which i think to be much more comfortable and spacious. Everyone has his own space/comfort threshold, but I'd say that 34ft. mark is the lower limit for me. Books can offer lifestyle info., but only you can decide what will be an adequate size for you. As for a budget, you may find that living on a boat is romantic, but inconvenient and more expensive than it may have appeared from the outside. A Catalina 34 in good condition is in the neighborhood of $50–60,000. Here's a link to one for sale lying in San Diego right now. After you get there, stay on yachtworld.com and do some searches, by price & location, and look at the photos to get an idea for what's available. Good Luck, Jeff
Lats and Atts
Bob Bitchin wrote an interesting editorial in a recent issue of Latitudes and Attitudes. To sum up in a few words, he said that if you're going to be "living the dream", make sure it's YOUR DREAM. Downsize from where you currently live. Even a large sailboat has living space measured in the dozens of square feet. So, see if you can really live in such a small space. Do you really want a sailboat or are you looking for a cheap (relatively) condo on the water? Are you really going to go sailing or just commute to work from the boat? Since you said you're a novice, I'd suggest buying a more modest boat and use it for a season or two. Live on it a week or two at a time. But, most importantly, SAIL IT and see if you really like sailing. Finally, don't underestimate the costs involved. There was a recent thread in this or another popular forum (I've forgotten which) discussing the expense of live aboard dock space in San Diego. It was in the thousands of dollars per month. Your costs only begin when you've purchased the boat.
Bob Bitchin wrote an interesting editorial in a recent issue of Latitudes and Attitudes. To sum up in a few words, he said that if you're going to be "living the dream", make sure it's YOUR DREAM. Downsize from where you currently live. Even a large sailboat has living space measured in the dozens of square feet. So, see if you can really live in such a small space. Do you really want a sailboat or are you looking for a cheap (relatively) condo on the water? Are you really going to go sailing or just commute to work from the boat? Since you said you're a novice, I'd suggest buying a more modest boat and use it for a season or two. Live on it a week or two at a time. But, most importantly, SAIL IT and see if you really like sailing. Finally, don't underestimate the costs involved. There was a recent thread in this or another popular forum (I've forgotten which) discussing the expense of live aboard dock space in San Diego. It was in the thousands of dollars per month. Your costs only begin when you've purchased the boat.
Thank you...and keep the responces coming...
Thanks for all of your input everyone thus far...I'm glad this has been my first step before buying anything...to answer some questions...I would plan on sailing the boat as often as possible. At least the coastal waters off California... Jeff the others were right! I guess what I was hoping to hear was some positive experiences from those who live/have lived on sailboats...although I appereciate honesty...Maybe I just need to go into it with more money...but i'm 27 and it honestly sounds like a good pick-up lin, can you blame me...but that's not the pupose of this venture...guess what I just need is more time and thought, and more responces from people like yourselves...thanks again!
Thanks for all of your input everyone thus far...I'm glad this has been my first step before buying anything...to answer some questions...I would plan on sailing the boat as often as possible. At least the coastal waters off California... Jeff the others were right! I guess what I was hoping to hear was some positive experiences from those who live/have lived on sailboats...although I appereciate honesty...Maybe I just need to go into it with more money...but i'm 27 and it honestly sounds like a good pick-up lin, can you blame me...but that's not the pupose of this venture...guess what I just need is more time and thought, and more responces from people like yourselves...thanks again!
Long-Term Thinking
Dave, here's a link to another forum that has a "liveaboard' section. Bet you'll find people more than willing to share their experiences with you. But really, if I were in my late 20s & weren't a homeowner, I'd look to invest in a house/condo that is likely to appreciate (this particular moment might not be right in southern California), and purchase a smaller boat (like a Catalina 27) that would take me all around this area. The bigger boat could come later. I live 6 minutes away from the marina. The market value of my 2-br condo has quadrupled over the last decade, and I've saved enough money for a 30-ft. coastal cruiser as well. As cool as it would be to be 27 again and live on a sailboat (and I really get the attraction), It's just a better investment of money to own one's own (appreciating) home at that age than it would be to purchase a depreciating asset like a boat, Gook Luck & Fair Winds, Jeff
Dave, here's a link to another forum that has a "liveaboard' section. Bet you'll find people more than willing to share their experiences with you. But really, if I were in my late 20s & weren't a homeowner, I'd look to invest in a house/condo that is likely to appreciate (this particular moment might not be right in southern California), and purchase a smaller boat (like a Catalina 27) that would take me all around this area. The bigger boat could come later. I live 6 minutes away from the marina. The market value of my 2-br condo has quadrupled over the last decade, and I've saved enough money for a 30-ft. coastal cruiser as well. As cool as it would be to be 27 again and live on a sailboat (and I really get the attraction), It's just a better investment of money to own one's own (appreciating) home at that age than it would be to purchase a depreciating asset like a boat, Gook Luck & Fair Winds, Jeff
It's not that complicated
When I was in my early 20's I lived on a bayfield 25. Went to work every day. Did coastal crusing on the weekends, and vacations. I had a apartment before moving aboard. I was spending every weekend on the boat. Finally decided I did'nt need the apartment. I loved it. GO FOR IT!!!
When I was in my early 20's I lived on a bayfield 25. Went to work every day. Did coastal crusing on the weekends, and vacations. I had a apartment before moving aboard. I was spending every weekend on the boat. Finally decided I did'nt need the apartment. I loved it. GO FOR IT!!!
Two patterns of thoughts
The live aboards give the advice of "its not that complicated" and the non-liveaboards give all the words of caution. This is a great example for why people should fill out their profiles. Then someone like dave b. would know who is giving what info. I have been living aboard for about 8 or 9 years now. Me and GF love the lifestyle and would not trade it for anything. We were very comfortable on our Catalina 30. That may be too small for some, but then again, there is no boat in existance large enough for others. We all have different levels of comfort. If dave b. wants to live aboard, the info should come from live-aboards and former live-aboards in order for it to be helpful to him. The non-liveaboards should give advice as to why they dont live aboard or dont want to live aboard. Its not fair to dave to tell him why he should not live aboard or what size boat he needs if you have never done it. You have a right to your opinion, but at least add to your recommendations whether you have ever lived aboard or not. This forum can sometimes be so negative by well meaning folks. If you want to live aboard, just do it. If you have any reservations about it, dont do it. If you do the "logical" thing of try living in a smaller space first then get used to it and so on, then you are trying to convince yourself, and that is not good. I just 'knew' I wanted to live aboard, and so I did. To answer your original question again, $75K should do it. If you dont think you could live on a 34 or 36 foot Hunter or Catalina, then living aboard is not for you. One more thing.....ever since we lived aboard, we have alwaays maintained a small mini-storage for obviou reasons. I have also maintaine a separate rented mini-storage which i use for a wood shop. IMHO Tony B
The live aboards give the advice of "its not that complicated" and the non-liveaboards give all the words of caution. This is a great example for why people should fill out their profiles. Then someone like dave b. would know who is giving what info. I have been living aboard for about 8 or 9 years now. Me and GF love the lifestyle and would not trade it for anything. We were very comfortable on our Catalina 30. That may be too small for some, but then again, there is no boat in existance large enough for others. We all have different levels of comfort. If dave b. wants to live aboard, the info should come from live-aboards and former live-aboards in order for it to be helpful to him. The non-liveaboards should give advice as to why they dont live aboard or dont want to live aboard. Its not fair to dave to tell him why he should not live aboard or what size boat he needs if you have never done it. You have a right to your opinion, but at least add to your recommendations whether you have ever lived aboard or not. This forum can sometimes be so negative by well meaning folks. If you want to live aboard, just do it. If you have any reservations about it, dont do it. If you do the "logical" thing of try living in a smaller space first then get used to it and so on, then you are trying to convince yourself, and that is not good. I just 'knew' I wanted to live aboard, and so I did. To answer your original question again, $75K should do it. If you dont think you could live on a 34 or 36 foot Hunter or Catalina, then living aboard is not for you. One more thing.....ever since we lived aboard, we have alwaays maintained a small mini-storage for obviou reasons. I have also maintaine a separate rented mini-storage which i use for a wood shop. IMHO Tony B
interesting advice
Tony B is right and you get some interesting advice from people who have never done it. I have been living aboard my boats since 1972. I started on a 22-foot boat and have been in a verity of boats ranging from two years on a powerboat to some time on a 42 footer. The best small live-aboard was my O’Day 26 and my current boat is a Tartan 34C which is a royal palace compared to the 26. You are the only one that can decide how large a boat you need. Just keep in mind that the larger boat is more expensive to buy and own and the smaller boat is more likely to get used instead of your boat just sitting at the dock. Visit the local boatyard and talk to some owners. Get on the boats and walk around below and see how comfortable you can be in the different sizes. Check out the amount of storage on each one and then you can have some hard facts from which to decide on a boat. I am very lucky and the company I work for has storage I can use for the things I don’t want to keep on the boat. Most people rent a space or make arrangement with the boatyard to have a box trailer for extra gear. Good luck and all the best, Robert Gainer
Tony B is right and you get some interesting advice from people who have never done it. I have been living aboard my boats since 1972. I started on a 22-foot boat and have been in a verity of boats ranging from two years on a powerboat to some time on a 42 footer. The best small live-aboard was my O’Day 26 and my current boat is a Tartan 34C which is a royal palace compared to the 26. You are the only one that can decide how large a boat you need. Just keep in mind that the larger boat is more expensive to buy and own and the smaller boat is more likely to get used instead of your boat just sitting at the dock. Visit the local boatyard and talk to some owners. Get on the boats and walk around below and see how comfortable you can be in the different sizes. Check out the amount of storage on each one and then you can have some hard facts from which to decide on a boat. I am very lucky and the company I work for has storage I can use for the things I don’t want to keep on the boat. Most people rent a space or make arrangement with the boatyard to have a box trailer for extra gear. Good luck and all the best, Robert Gainer
Go for it...
I lived aboard for 5 years back when I was about your age (1978-83). They were probably the best 5 years of my life. I sailed almost every day coastal cruising between San Francisco, San Diego and mostly the Channel Islands. I only worked a couple of months out of each year. If you are going to be working full time, living aboard is not a great idea unless you can afford a big boat. Otherwise, if you can work part time or only occasionally a 26-30 footer would be fine. Most important thing to be sure of if you are going to live aboard is that you can STAND UP in the cabin without bumping your head! Other than that find a boat with good sailing ability, one that pleases your eye... a boat that you can "fall in love with". I say, go for it and all the best to you.
I lived aboard for 5 years back when I was about your age (1978-83). They were probably the best 5 years of my life. I sailed almost every day coastal cruising between San Francisco, San Diego and mostly the Channel Islands. I only worked a couple of months out of each year. If you are going to be working full time, living aboard is not a great idea unless you can afford a big boat. Otherwise, if you can work part time or only occasionally a 26-30 footer would be fine. Most important thing to be sure of if you are going to live aboard is that you can STAND UP in the cabin without bumping your head! Other than that find a boat with good sailing ability, one that pleases your eye... a boat that you can "fall in love with". I say, go for it and all the best to you.
did live aboard
Dave I started on a Cal 25 in Melbourne, FL that was grand when I was 23 and traveling a ton for work. When the company moved me back to MD, I lasted until the first week of December when the water in the boat froze, the showers and bath houses were freezing and a real run to get to. Two years ago, I returned to liveaboard on a MT 36 that was quite nice, AC, water, full size bed and very comfy. A lot of room compared to almost any similar size sailboat. Now I trip between a home and a 38' Sabre (1983) that is almost as comfortable as the MT and much more fun. Look at what you need and what you can do without...then go for it while you can. You may love and never go back, or you may find that it is not quite the "dream" you thought it would be. I love it! dave
Dave I started on a Cal 25 in Melbourne, FL that was grand when I was 23 and traveling a ton for work. When the company moved me back to MD, I lasted until the first week of December when the water in the boat froze, the showers and bath houses were freezing and a real run to get to. Two years ago, I returned to liveaboard on a MT 36 that was quite nice, AC, water, full size bed and very comfy. A lot of room compared to almost any similar size sailboat. Now I trip between a home and a 38' Sabre (1983) that is almost as comfortable as the MT and much more fun. Look at what you need and what you can do without...then go for it while you can. You may love and never go back, or you may find that it is not quite the "dream" you thought it would be. I love it! dave
Anchor down
Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not understanding what was meant by " live aboard". I have heard the term used to express a number of different boating "life styles". I am sorry all to hell and was only trying to be helpful as the original post did not clearly define what was meant by "live aboard".
Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not understanding what was meant by " live aboard". I have heard the term used to express a number of different boating "life styles". I am sorry all to hell and was only trying to be helpful as the original post did not clearly define what was meant by "live aboard".
Read the thread about common sense
Hopefully you will not be an idiot who has a big boat and no ideal of how to sail or even boat safely.
Hopefully you will not be an idiot who has a big boat and no ideal of how to sail or even boat safely.
I'm with Higgs
When the original post read "I want to live on a sailboat. ...I am somewhat new to sailing, but am looking for a change of....lifestyle." I read this to mean that the poster, daveB, implied he would actually sail it also. I guess someone could interpret it as meaning that he liked the looks of a sailboat and was going to live on it in his driveway. IMFO Tony B
When the original post read "I want to live on a sailboat. ...I am somewhat new to sailing, but am looking for a change of....lifestyle." I read this to mean that the poster, daveB, implied he would actually sail it also. I guess someone could interpret it as meaning that he liked the looks of a sailboat and was going to live on it in his driveway. IMFO Tony B
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