Link 2000 Operation Question

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
That's true

and I hadn't thought about that since you mentioned the echo charger. Echo chargers aren't good for a two equal bank setup, a combiner's better. So where'd the echo charger come from? Was it part of the original Freedom and not used until you separated the banks and put in the start bank? This is like playing detective! :)
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
That's true

and I hadn't thought about that since you mentioned the echo charger. Echo chargers aren't good for a two equal bank setup, a combiner's better. So where'd the echo charger come from? Was it part of the original Freedom and not used until you separated the banks and put in the start bank? This is like playing detective! :)
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Correction, Stu

...the battery cables are larger 2/0. BTW, the Freedom manual does give the option of the feed through a selector switch. RD
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Correction, Stu

...the battery cables are larger 2/0. BTW, the Freedom manual does give the option of the feed through a selector switch. RD
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Reply to 'That's True'

The original set up had two equal house battery banks feeding through 1 & 2 of the battery selector switch and the Freedom connection through switch also. The starting battery was fed through the echo charge, according to the documentation. I'll take a fresh look at the stuff when I go to the boat. Again, thanks for hanging in there. RD
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Reply to 'That's True'

The original set up had two equal house battery banks feeding through 1 & 2 of the battery selector switch and the Freedom connection through switch also. The starting battery was fed through the echo charge, according to the documentation. I'll take a fresh look at the stuff when I go to the boat. Again, thanks for hanging in there. RD
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I checked the manual

as you note they do show the use of a 1-2-B switch. My 1998 manual came in two parts, Owner's Manual and Installation Guide. The back of the Installation Guide shows what you describe, but with a twist, since it shows two switches, one for inverter output/input and a second 1-2-B for DC loads. It sounds like you have one switch. Plus your start bank solenoid. Good luck tomorrow, I may go out sailing and stay overnight, so we'll see how this goes over the next few days.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I checked the manual

as you note they do show the use of a 1-2-B switch. My 1998 manual came in two parts, Owner's Manual and Installation Guide. The back of the Installation Guide shows what you describe, but with a twist, since it shows two switches, one for inverter output/input and a second 1-2-B for DC loads. It sounds like you have one switch. Plus your start bank solenoid. Good luck tomorrow, I may go out sailing and stay overnight, so we'll see how this goes over the next few days.
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Not Exactly, Stu...

...I was joined by someone else from this board who was in the area and we went sailing. About a conservative 20 knots and flat seas, clear weather, little traffic and he brought the beer. What's not to like? A correction to the earlier post about the starting battery being on the echo charge. Despite the documentation, it appears it's just through the combiner. However, it is clear that if I am going to charge the bank one (large house bank) by itself, I have to turn function 11 'off'. However, since I will leave it 'on' for battery two when I am at the slip, I don't have to worry at all about it since I just turn it to 'both' when I am at the boat and which battery the sense is on doesn't matter. This will be tru on the mooring with the Honda 2000 generator too. i will rarely be on battery one alone. So, it isn't going to be any big deal (and wasn't anyway, I just wanted to double check myself). Rick D.
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Hey, Stu...

...are you still at the boat? It looks as if I do need to toggle the Link when I switch battery banks. See my prior post too. Rick D.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Followup

Back from the "sea", nice trip, glad you had a good time, too. I'm confused about the third paragraph in your reply #15. You seem to keep switching (no pun intended) from F11 ON or OFF to your 1-2-B switch. Please help me understand more, per my reply #13, trying to understand more about what you have. If Bank 2, for instance, is your "fridge" bank, what do you have to switch when shorepower is available? Maybe a good explanation of your setup would help me understand. Let's call them "house", "start" and "fridge" banks for ease of explanation, with House as #1, you pick #s 2 & 3 :):)
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Here’s A Recap, Stu…

1. When I leave the boat, I turn the battery switch to the refrigerator bank (no.2) and put Function 11 ‘on’ on the Link 2000. This makes the Freedom sense from the refrigerator bank (no.2). The house bank will sit without charge or draw. The starting battery will charge via the combiner. 2. When I return to the boat, I will turn the battery switch to both, thus combining the refrigerator bank (no. 2) and the house bank (no. 1) into one bank. The voltage will equalize between them and any charge needed will be identified by the Freedom via the refrigerator bank (no. 2) which is still the monitoring bank since the Function 11 on the Link 2000 is still set to the refrigerator bank (no.2). The starting battery will charge via the combiner. 3. As an alternative to item 2, when I return to the boat, I may turn the battery switch on to the house bank (no.1). Then, in order to charge the house bank, I will need to turn the Link 2000 Function 11 to ‘off’ which will move the sense function for the Freedom charger to the house bank (no.1). The starting battery will charge via the combiner. 4. When cruising, I will combine the two banks as in item 2 with the battery switch on ‘both’. The Balmar will sense from the battery switch and apply whatever is needed and the start battery will begin charging once the combined refrigerator and house banks indicate 13 volts. Comments: I think the best way to properly charge my house bank (no.2) is to use the method as outlined in item 3 since I’m not sure the combined method in item 2 will yield the proper voltage sense for the big house bank. Also, the manual recommends when off shore power to discharge the two banks separately. I suspect I’ll ignore that since with different capacity banks, it would seem to make no difference and sounds like it’s more trouble than it’s worth even if they were the same. Hard to see why the batteries care. However, as to my original question when on shore power, it appears I must adjust the Function 11 setting ‘off or on’ to conform to the battery switch position unless in the ‘both’ position. Your comments welcome. Rick D.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Rick, great definition

While I'm thinking about that, how do you "select" your start bank for use? It's still unclear to me how that's wired into the system (other than the combiner for charging).
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Just The Combiner

So it is always 'on'; no selection to be made, and it doesn't care what the house bank battery switch is doing. The starting battery has only an 'on' and 'off' switch. BTW, I had a marine group 24 starting battery that lasted eight years and would have lasted longer if the ignition switch hadn't been left on for a week in the boat yard. Replaced it with an Optima AGM starting battery which, unlike other AGMs has the same charging profile as a wet cell. Just have to remember to turn it off before equalizing the house batteries. There... more than you ever wanted to know about Attitude Adjustment's starting battery ;)
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
By Golly You Have It!

Darn, Stu, we could do this better with a pencil, a napkin and a couple of pints in a pub. But, it looks like you nailed it. The sense to the Balmar runs from a three-stage regulator (Xantrex) which senses from the battery switch. Therefore the regulator output is governed by what is sensed by the regulator and by what position the battery switch is on (1,2,or both). Rick D.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I like the pub idea

I'll provide the napkins...:) OK, now that I have that right and in mind, let me think about the original question, which was just WHAT again???? :) More soon.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,345
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Back to the Original Question (finally :))

Which was: “So, it appears whenever I change the battery switch from two to one, I have to go into the Link 2000 and select the appropriate battery bank monitor for the Freedom. Do I have this right?” It’s an operational issue and the direct answer to the question is no. The reason is in my reply #6, way back when. Rather than thinking of F11 as choosing either #1 or #2, try thinking of it this way: F11 ON – the Link checks both #1 and #2 (as if there were two equal house banks, as noted in my reply #6) F11 OFF – ONLY bank #1 will trigger the charger, it’s telling the LINK to forget completely about bank #2’s condition in relation to telling the charger to operate, and assumes you’ve figured out a manual or automatic way to charge the second battery The literature says that the F11 switch “…will prevent the Link 2000 from [directing the Freedom charger] from making a premature transition to float based on the smaller battery meeting the charge parameters substantially before the house battery.” I take this to mean that since it says “transition to float” the charger is still being told by the Link to be operating. So even if F11 is ON ALL THE TIME (using Both banks #1 & #2 to sense) when you’re away from the boat it just won’t matter if the switch is on BOTH because the charger is still operating, being sensed from BOTH banks because F11 is ON, and #2, by being depleted by the fridge load, is going to kick the charger on repeatedly, thus charging both banks. If the switch is on B, though, BOTH banks #1 (house) and #2 (fridge) are going to be getting “drained” by the fridge load, so leave the switch on 2, with F11 ON. This agrees with your reply #18, Item 1. Add to that you may want to begin to think of the issue in these two conditions: -- first, what happens and what do I do when my batteries are full; -- second, what to do when I need to charge when they’re not full. Your descriptions in your reply #18 pretty much summed the operational issues very well. Rather than posing the question with “…whenever I change the battery switch from two to one…” think of it more as “When my batteries are full how do I want the Link to operate, and when they are discharged, what, if anything, should I do differently?” It’s your point of view that’s important, because the situation you describe has you at the dock and connected to shorepower all week long. Right? So, your batteries are full BUT the Link 2000 F11 MUST be ON to sense the fridge battery (#2) and keep the charging level going when you’re away for the week and the fridge is on. Because your charger output goes through the switch, the only way to charge #1 regardless of the position of F11 is with the switch. I know you fully understand this. We also agree that if you leave the 1-2-B switch on B when you are away, the Link is telling the charger to output based on the condition of BOTH banks with F11 being ON. If you leave the 1-2-B switch on only #2 (the fridge bank), the #1 house bank wouldn’t get floated during the week when you’re away even with F11 ON; actually regardless of F11 position. If you do what you said in reply #18, Item 1, i.e., left the 1-2-B on #2 with F11 ON, you’re right EXCEPT that the start bank wouldn’t get anything IF our little diagram is correct, because it’s connected only to the house bank #1 via the combiner. So the last sentence in your Item 1 seems to be incorrect. Your #2 in reply #18 is also correct. It’s not necessary to think of the two banks equalizing “into each other” as the 1-2-B goes from 2 to B, since the house bank is essentially full, and so is the fridge bank because you’ve been charging it all week. However, once you turn the 1-2-B to B, the charger OUTPUT will be able to go to the house bank (#1), REGARDLESS of what setting F11 is. This is because the charger is outputting, whether at bulk, absorption or most likely float based on the signal from #2 because F11 was in the ON position. The charge signal the Link is receiving from bank #2 (fridge) will go to BOTH banks the second your turn the 1-2-B to B. Remember, the charger is ON all week, right? Your #3 in reply 18 is only partially correct. “…turn the battery switch on to the house bank (no.1). Then, in order to charge the house bank, I will need to turn the Link 2000 Function 11 to ‘off’ which will move the sense function for the Freedom charger to the house bank (no.1)” You don’t NEED to turn the F11 to OFF to charge the house bank, because the fridge has been running, using some of bank 2 and requiring the charger to RUN, since the Link is being sensed by both batteries with F11 ON. Again, since the charger is running, it will charge bank #1 as soon as you switch to B. But the hosue bank is full already. That’s my point about how to look at it, with an essentially full house bank, when you get on the boat, why would you have to consider “having to charge my house bank?” Your #4 is right, but rather than “when cruising” think “when I’m out on the hook and have been gone for two days and I need to charge my batteries…” You HAVE to put the 1-2-B in B or else only one (or none!) gets charged since you can start your engine without using the 1-2-B switch. When the house bank is down and needs to be charged, and you’ve been running the boat on switch position 1, you could leave the switch on #1 and turn F11 OFF because you don’t want the fully charged fridge bank #2 to switch the Freedom charger to float prematurely. This is the "KEY" to the operation of the F11 function: small bank and big bank, regardless of whether the small bank is for a fridge or for a start bank. When the banks are full, as they will be from being plugged in all week, you need to have F11 ON to have the charger keep #2 going. In your reply #18, at the end: “However, as to my original question when on shore power, it appears I must adjust the Function 11 setting ‘off or on’ to conform to the battery switch position unless in the ‘both’ position.” I don’t think it’s that complicated. You can leave F11 ON until you’re at anchor and need to charge house bank #1. I assume you switch to #1 once you cast off and head out, thus using bank #1. The key seems to be that F11 is NOT an either/or thing, but a both or one choice, simply excluding the smaller fridge bank #2 when F11 is OFF. This is consistent with the discussion in my reply #6 about why F11 is there in the first place. Sorry this was so long, and there are probably some repetitions up there, but let’s see what you think. If I haven’t confused you and everyone else by now, we’re ahead of the game. Rick, I’ve really enjoyed this discussion because it has exposed me to yet another way to wire and operate a boat, and there’s always something to learn. I’ve beaten your record for procrastination in installing our Link – it’s been in my workshop for eight years!!! I’ve spent my time installing the Freedom, using it’s manual switch, upgrading our alternator regulator and sailing. I know how much fun installing the Link will be, and how much fun having it will be, too. Thanks again for a great topic, I’ve learned a lot about that elusive F11, which I also questioned and actually called Heart about – they have less of a clue about it than we do! :) PS - common and both are essentially the same thing - there are only three posts on the back of the switch.
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Stu, Thanks!

I'll think on this some. You are very right, I was thinking of the F11 function as an either or function. I really appreciate the heavy lifting you put in here. The documentation isn't bad but doesn't go far enough to figure out what's going on. Rick D.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.