Link 2000 Operation Question

[Rick D]

After 18 months, I finally got around to installing my Link 2000 monitor/remote. I figured it would be a PITA and it was. Anyhow, as part of the installation, I decided to test a theory. I combined my two 220 amp battery banks into one and made them battery one. I then set up a seperate 120 amp as battery two. The reasoning is that I leave my frig and freezer on 24/7 and I figured I could shove all that parasitic draw and continuous charging through a cheap group 24 deep cycle battery at the dock and 'save' my big bank for more serious use. (My plan wasn't thought out well since it cost me $220 for all the stuff to set up the second bank.)The Link manual says that if the battery capasity in bank one is much larger than bank two, I should select funtion 11 to defeat the default Freedom battery monitoring of bank two for charging. I did, but when the battery switch was set on battery 2 (the little one) with the default 'off', the charging wasn't proper. I reset it to use battery bank 2 as charge monitor and it worked like it should.So, it appears whenwever I change the battery switch from two to one, I have to go into the Link 2000 and select the appropriate battery bank monitor for the Freedom. Do I have this right? Rick D.

 

[Rick D]

After 18 months, I finally got around to installing my Link 2000 monitor/remote. I figured it would be a PITA and it was. Anyhow, as part of the installation, I decided to test a theory. I combined my two 220 amp battery banks into one and made them battery one. I then set up a seperate 120 amp as battery two. The reasoning is that I leave my frig and freezer on 24/7 and I figured I could shove all that parasitic draw and continuous charging through a cheap group 24 deep cycle battery at the dock and 'save' my big bank for more serious use. (My plan wasn't thought out well since it cost me $220 for all the stuff to set up the second bank.)The Link manual says that if the battery capasity in bank one is much larger than bank two, I should select funtion 11 to defeat the default Freedom battery monitoring of bank two for charging. I did, but when the battery switch was set on battery 2 (the little one) with the default 'off', the charging wasn't proper. I reset it to use battery bank 2 as charge monitor and it worked like it should.So, it appears whenwever I change the battery switch from two to one, I have to go into the Link 2000 and select the appropriate battery bank monitor for the Freedom. Do I have this right? Rick D.

 

[Dick]

Rick we have a link 2000 with 2 banks that

very greatly in capacity. Bank 1 is for starting and is a 200 ah group 27. We also have a 200 ah group 27 on echo charge for the generator. The house bank is 3 8D's at almost 700 ah. I set the battery capacity in each bank, 200 for bank 1 and 700 for bank 2, with bank 2 as the primary charge bank. I keep the battery switch set to bank 2. Every thing keeps charged with no need to do any switching. Hope this helps.

 

[Dick]

Rick we have a link 2000 with 2 banks that

very greatly in capacity. Bank 1 is for starting and is a 200 ah group 27. We also have a 200 ah group 27 on echo charge for the generator. The house bank is 3 8D's at almost 700 ah. I set the battery capacity in each bank, 200 for bank 1 and 700 for bank 2, with bank 2 as the primary charge bank. I keep the battery switch set to bank 2. Every thing keeps charged with no need to do any switching. Hope this helps.

 

[Rick D]

Thanks, Dick

By the way, do you know the Drechslers on the 47 'Last Resort'? RD

 

[Rick D]

Thanks, Dick

By the way, do you know the Drechslers on the 47 'Last Resort'? RD

 

[Dick]

Sure do. They sail out of Cal Yacht Club too.

I think they are in Mexico now.

 

[Dick]

Sure do. They sail out of Cal Yacht Club too.

I think they are in Mexico now.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Link 2000 Operation with House & Start Banks

Rich, I had a similar question related to a large house bank and a small start bank with the F11 function. You, however, have a different twist, since as I understand it, you are trying to avoid using the large house bank to run your fridge, and have opted to run the fridge through the smaller start bank.I think you have two different issues here.The F11 function is used to provide the Link 2000 with the choice of using the larger (house) bank as the input to know if the charger side of the Freedom I/C should switch to float. Granted, the written instructions aren't presented very well, so I downloaded one of Xantrex's technical notes a while ago.**********************************************SUBJECT: Link 2000 monitoring a house bank and an engine batteryINTRODUCTIONA popular design for primary DC electrical systems consist of a single large deep cycle house bank and a dedicated engine starting battery/bank. with an emergency parallel switch for starting the engine from the house bank if necessary. In this type of system, all the house DC loads are placed on the house bank, and the engine start battery is isolated and reserved for engine starting only. This type of system has several advantages including simplicity of design, ease of use and reliable operation. The Link 2000 is designed to monitor two deep cycle battery banks, but can also be installed and used to properly monitor both banks in this type of system.INSTALLATIONTo ensure complete charging of the house bank and for PROPER REGULATION OF THE CHARGER [my caps], the house bank needs to be considered as Bank #1 as far as the Link is concerned. Also, Bank #2 needs to be disabled as a control input for charger control. To set this parameter, use "defeating battery #2 for control" -- set F11 (battery #2 used for control) to OFF.**********************************************This makes it a bit clearer: the standard Link was "designed" for two equally sized banks which was a "normal" electrical design for many years and still is for many folks), and thus used both as "controls" for the charger side of the Freedom. With only the house bank used as control, two things need to happen: 1) make sure the house bank is labeled as Bank #1 [for instance, in my boat, our house bank was #2 before the Link, so I just need to switch the wires at the back of the 1-2-B switch] AND F11 needs to be switched to OFF.Now, you've thrown in a complexity: you want to use the start bank to run your fridge. If you turn F11 to OFF, only the house bank, now being unused, will not sense it has to turn the charger to float. NOTE: I don't know if this defeats the charger ON function or just switch to float.So, what I suggest is: 1) absorb some of this; 2) think about why you think that switching the battery switch has anything to do with the F11 Link function; 3) make sure your house bank is #1 and wired that wayIt would also help to explain a bit more why you said: "...the charging wasn't proper. I reset it to use battery bank 2 as charge monitor and it worked like it should." Am I correct in that you went back and reset F11 to ON? What this means is that you're charging Bank #2 the start bank and using both it AND the house bank as controls for the Link. With F11 off, you were essentially draining the start bank because it wasn't being used as a control.You also noted: "So, it appears whenever I change the battery switch from two to one, I have to go into the Link 2000 and select the appropriate battery bank monitor for the Freedom. Do I have this right?"That doesn't sound right. All F11 is doing is telling the Link to use either both banks or only the house for the charge. You had your fridge on Bank #2 (start) with F11 OFF, so of course, the charger didn't know that. This should have nothing to do with the battery switch, since the Link is wired directly to the two battery banks.You have a few choices: 1) run your fridge through the house bank and turn F11 off (advantage is that you won't have this confusion, and you won't be running your house bank "down" it's built for that, the start bank isn't); do what a friend of mine did: add a third small battery to use for your fridge ( can find the link to that for you if you're interested)Why not chew on this for a while and let's continue the discussion.Stu

 

[Stu Jackson]

Link 2000 Operation with House & Start Banks

Rich, I had a similar question related to a large house bank and a small start bank with the F11 function. You, however, have a different twist, since as I understand it, you are trying to avoid using the large house bank to run your fridge, and have opted to run the fridge through the smaller start bank.I think you have two different issues here.The F11 function is used to provide the Link 2000 with the choice of using the larger (house) bank as the input to know if the charger side of the Freedom I/C should switch to float. Granted, the written instructions aren't presented very well, so I downloaded one of Xantrex's technical notes a while ago.**********************************************SUBJECT: Link 2000 monitoring a house bank and an engine batteryINTRODUCTIONA popular design for primary DC electrical systems consist of a single large deep cycle house bank and a dedicated engine starting battery/bank. with an emergency parallel switch for starting the engine from the house bank if necessary. In this type of system, all the house DC loads are placed on the house bank, and the engine start battery is isolated and reserved for engine starting only. This type of system has several advantages including simplicity of design, ease of use and reliable operation. The Link 2000 is designed to monitor two deep cycle battery banks, but can also be installed and used to properly monitor both banks in this type of system.INSTALLATIONTo ensure complete charging of the house bank and for PROPER REGULATION OF THE CHARGER [my caps], the house bank needs to be considered as Bank #1 as far as the Link is concerned. Also, Bank #2 needs to be disabled as a control input for charger control. To set this parameter, use "defeating battery #2 for control" -- set F11 (battery #2 used for control) to OFF.**********************************************This makes it a bit clearer: the standard Link was "designed" for two equally sized banks which was a "normal" electrical design for many years and still is for many folks), and thus used both as "controls" for the charger side of the Freedom. With only the house bank used as control, two things need to happen: 1) make sure the house bank is labeled as Bank #1 [for instance, in my boat, our house bank was #2 before the Link, so I just need to switch the wires at the back of the 1-2-B switch] AND F11 needs to be switched to OFF.Now, you've thrown in a complexity: you want to use the start bank to run your fridge. If you turn F11 to OFF, only the house bank, now being unused, will not sense it has to turn the charger to float. NOTE: I don't know if this defeats the charger ON function or just switch to float.So, what I suggest is: 1) absorb some of this; 2) think about why you think that switching the battery switch has anything to do with the F11 Link function; 3) make sure your house bank is #1 and wired that wayIt would also help to explain a bit more why you said: "...the charging wasn't proper. I reset it to use battery bank 2 as charge monitor and it worked like it should." Am I correct in that you went back and reset F11 to ON? What this means is that you're charging Bank #2 the start bank and using both it AND the house bank as controls for the Link. With F11 off, you were essentially draining the start bank because it wasn't being used as a control.You also noted: "So, it appears whenever I change the battery switch from two to one, I have to go into the Link 2000 and select the appropriate battery bank monitor for the Freedom. Do I have this right?"That doesn't sound right. All F11 is doing is telling the Link to use either both banks or only the house for the charge. You had your fridge on Bank #2 (start) with F11 OFF, so of course, the charger didn't know that. This should have nothing to do with the battery switch, since the Link is wired directly to the two battery banks.You have a few choices: 1) run your fridge through the house bank and turn F11 off (advantage is that you won't have this confusion, and you won't be running your house bank "down" it's built for that, the start bank isn't); do what a friend of mine did: add a third small battery to use for your fridge ( can find the link to that for you if you're interested)Why not chew on this for a while and let's continue the discussion.Stu

 

[Rick D]

Response to Stu J re: Link 2000

Yea, Stu, I think you nailed the issue. Thanks for taking the time to lend a hand. Some clarification first: the battery 2 bank isn't the start battery, it's just a smaller deep cycle. The starting battery is on the echo charge as I recall and is otherwise on an isolation relay. However, the point you make is the same.I re-read the F11 description and it seems that the function goes from using bank two as charge sense when 'on' to bank one when 'off'. In other words it toggles from one bank to the other rather than going from two to both. This is consistent with my (limited) experience using the function. Here's what happened: bank one is the big one. Bank two is the small one I want to use at the dock. When I switched to bank two, the indicator would not move out of the 'charge' mode. Made sense to me because it is reading bank one (with F11 'off') which is just sitting there with no load or charge. However, when I changed the sense to bank two (F11 'on'), it went from charge to accept to float as I would expect. But, when I go back to bank one, I'll have the same problem in reverse unless I turn F11 'off'.I hope that makes sense to you (pardon the pun). However, maybe it doesn't make any big difference other than changing the charge timing, as it would seem with Dick's experience. I haven't logged anything more than an afternoon using the thing. It is a little weird that the instructions call for a big bank on one but use two for sense, huh? I'm sure it makes sense somehow, but I don't get it.So, Stu, what am I off on in this analysis? I'm probably missing something.Rick D.

 

[Rick D]

Response to Stu J re: Link 2000

Yea, Stu, I think you nailed the issue. Thanks for taking the time to lend a hand. Some clarification first: the battery 2 bank isn't the start battery, it's just a smaller deep cycle. The starting battery is on the echo charge as I recall and is otherwise on an isolation relay. However, the point you make is the same.I re-read the F11 description and it seems that the function goes from using bank two as charge sense when 'on' to bank one when 'off'. In other words it toggles from one bank to the other rather than going from two to both. This is consistent with my (limited) experience using the function. Here's what happened: bank one is the big one. Bank two is the small one I want to use at the dock. When I switched to bank two, the indicator would not move out of the 'charge' mode. Made sense to me because it is reading bank one (with F11 'off') which is just sitting there with no load or charge. However, when I changed the sense to bank two (F11 'on'), it went from charge to accept to float as I would expect. But, when I go back to bank one, I'll have the same problem in reverse unless I turn F11 'off'.I hope that makes sense to you (pardon the pun). However, maybe it doesn't make any big difference other than changing the charge timing, as it would seem with Dick's experience. I haven't logged anything more than an afternoon using the thing. It is a little weird that the instructions call for a big bank on one but use two for sense, huh? I'm sure it makes sense somehow, but I don't get it.So, Stu, what am I off on in this analysis? I'm probably missing something.Rick D.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Need some more input

1. "I re-read the F11 description and it seems that the function goes from using bank two as charge sense when 'on' to bank one when 'off'. In other words it toggles from one bank to the other rather than going from two to both."Kinda, but not completely. The Link is essentially designed for a two bank operation, so when F11 is ON (which is why it is the default position) the Link checks BOTH banks to keep them "equal." As noted earlier, "Also, Bank #2 needs to be disabled as a control input for charger control (i.e., with a small start bank)." Check the emphasis on ALSO. Once you switch to a separate large house bank with a small start bank, you need to stop the unit from using Bank #2 for ANY kind of input for charge control. It is STILL reading Bank #1, as I understand the literature, so once you switch to a house/start arrangement, you want the unit to "forget" about the start bank since it's almost always "full." I understand that yours is different, but bear with me as I try to figure out how to help you.**********************************2. "...the battery 2 bank isn't the start battery, it's just a smaller deep cycle. The starting battery is on the echo charge as I recall and is otherwise on an isolation relay. However, the point you make is the same."I need to understand more about how you have the (all of the) banks connected and switched. FYI, another Link tech note has a discussion about three banks (two house and a separate start). It involves more than a 1-2-B switch. Before we go there, however, please explain:a. What are you using for a charger? Our Freedom 15 has a single (+) output for charging (and the same wire is used for feeding back from the house bank to the inverter). You are using the Link as a controller for a Freedom, so with the single output how are you charging the fridge bank when on shorepower?b. How are you wired? With the echo charger being used to charge your start bank, if I understand you correctly, 1-2-B #1 goes to the house bank with the echo charger to the start battery and #2 goes to your "fridge bank." But I don't understand how you are charging, since the 1-2-B switch usually is only used for battery OUTPUT, and not INPUT. Most folks have their chargers wired to the battery banks. We used our single output Freedom 15 to a PDP to the house bank with a combiner to the start bank. Help me understand what you're actually doing here. The house bank is #1 on the 1-2-B switch. What about the start bank and the fridge bank? How do you select the OUTPUT of those?********************************3. "When I switched to bank two, the indicator would not move out of the 'charge' mode. Made sense to me because it is reading bank one (with F11 'off') which is just sitting there with no load or charge. However, when I changed the sense to bank two (F11 'on'), it went from charge to accept to float as I would expect. But, when I go back to bank one, I'll have the same problem in reverse unless I turn F11 'off'."I agree, assuming by "when I go back to bank one" you mean switching F11 back to OFF, and that "when I switched to bank two..." meaning the F11 switch and NOT your 1-2-B switch.******************************4. "It is a little weird that the instructions call for a big bank on one but use two for sense, huh? I'm sure it makes sense somehow, but I don't get it."We're getting there. It's not weird because of what I explained in Item 1 above.One of my thoughts is that you might want to consider getting the fridge battery off the Link, and just measure your house and start banks, since the fridge bank is only being used when you're connected to shorepower, but that needs a switch so that once you're out at anchor you can run the fridge off the house bank. This is something similar to what my friend did, only he did it with relays instead of switches, same thing only automatic instead of manual. We can follow this through as you get back to me.This is fun!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Need some more input

1. "I re-read the F11 description and it seems that the function goes from using bank two as charge sense when 'on' to bank one when 'off'. In other words it toggles from one bank to the other rather than going from two to both."Kinda, but not completely. The Link is essentially designed for a two bank operation, so when F11 is ON (which is why it is the default position) the Link checks BOTH banks to keep them "equal." As noted earlier, "Also, Bank #2 needs to be disabled as a control input for charger control (i.e., with a small start bank)." Check the emphasis on ALSO. Once you switch to a separate large house bank with a small start bank, you need to stop the unit from using Bank #2 for ANY kind of input for charge control. It is STILL reading Bank #1, as I understand the literature, so once you switch to a house/start arrangement, you want the unit to "forget" about the start bank since it's almost always "full." I understand that yours is different, but bear with me as I try to figure out how to help you.**********************************2. "...the battery 2 bank isn't the start battery, it's just a smaller deep cycle. The starting battery is on the echo charge as I recall and is otherwise on an isolation relay. However, the point you make is the same."I need to understand more about how you have the (all of the) banks connected and switched. FYI, another Link tech note has a discussion about three banks (two house and a separate start). It involves more than a 1-2-B switch. Before we go there, however, please explain:a. What are you using for a charger? Our Freedom 15 has a single (+) output for charging (and the same wire is used for feeding back from the house bank to the inverter). You are using the Link as a controller for a Freedom, so with the single output how are you charging the fridge bank when on shorepower?b. How are you wired? With the echo charger being used to charge your start bank, if I understand you correctly, 1-2-B #1 goes to the house bank with the echo charger to the start battery and #2 goes to your "fridge bank." But I don't understand how you are charging, since the 1-2-B switch usually is only used for battery OUTPUT, and not INPUT. Most folks have their chargers wired to the battery banks. We used our single output Freedom 15 to a PDP to the house bank with a combiner to the start bank. Help me understand what you're actually doing here. The house bank is #1 on the 1-2-B switch. What about the start bank and the fridge bank? How do you select the OUTPUT of those?********************************3. "When I switched to bank two, the indicator would not move out of the 'charge' mode. Made sense to me because it is reading bank one (with F11 'off') which is just sitting there with no load or charge. However, when I changed the sense to bank two (F11 'on'), it went from charge to accept to float as I would expect. But, when I go back to bank one, I'll have the same problem in reverse unless I turn F11 'off'."I agree, assuming by "when I go back to bank one" you mean switching F11 back to OFF, and that "when I switched to bank two..." meaning the F11 switch and NOT your 1-2-B switch.******************************4. "It is a little weird that the instructions call for a big bank on one but use two for sense, huh? I'm sure it makes sense somehow, but I don't get it."We're getting there. It's not weird because of what I explained in Item 1 above.One of my thoughts is that you might want to consider getting the fridge battery off the Link, and just measure your house and start banks, since the fridge bank is only being used when you're connected to shorepower, but that needs a switch so that once you're out at anchor you can run the fridge off the house bank. This is something similar to what my friend did, only he did it with relays instead of switches, same thing only automatic instead of manual. We can follow this through as you get back to me.This is fun!

 

[Rick D]

Part Response, Stu...

... I'll have to ponder the F11 description a bit. I'm going to the boat tomorrow so I'll think it through. The Freedom 25 feeds / draws through the battery switch to whatever bank is selected. In fact, If I turn the switch to 'off' and the charger is still on, I can see the current on the Link and the panel meter. To kill it, I turn off the charger on the Link. To charge both banks, I just turn the switch to 'both'. I'm not 100% familiar with the start battery since I didn't install it, but what I read with the documentation is that the start battery charges from the echo charger on shorepower and though the relay from the Balmar when not (putting aside the solar panel input for purposes of this discussion). It has an 'on / off' battery switch, but there is no way to combine it with the house for starting.Hope that helps. If nothing else, I can post the thread to Xantrex C/S and get their take on it, but I 'sense' we're closing in on it. thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Rick D]

Part Response, Stu...

... I'll have to ponder the F11 description a bit. I'm going to the boat tomorrow so I'll think it through. The Freedom 25 feeds / draws through the battery switch to whatever bank is selected. In fact, If I turn the switch to 'off' and the charger is still on, I can see the current on the Link and the panel meter. To kill it, I turn off the charger on the Link. To charge both banks, I just turn the switch to 'both'. I'm not 100% familiar with the start battery since I didn't install it, but what I read with the documentation is that the start battery charges from the echo charger on shorepower and though the relay from the Balmar when not (putting aside the solar panel input for purposes of this discussion). It has an 'on / off' battery switch, but there is no way to combine it with the house for starting.Hope that helps. If nothing else, I can post the thread to Xantrex C/S and get their take on it, but I 'sense' we're closing in on it. thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Sounds MIGHTY strange

Rich, "The Freedom 25 feeds / draws through the battery switch to whatever bank is selected."The + and - wiring from the I/C to the house bank should be 00 wire, really BIG and heavy.Usually wiring to and from the banks to the switch is #4 or just a tad larger since it's only needed to be sized for less than 30 amps DC (how much jiuce can you really ever pull OUT of the batteries?).Doing the inverter/charger wiring through the switch just doesn't sound right.Check it out tomorrow and let's keep going through this.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Sounds MIGHTY strange

Rich, "The Freedom 25 feeds / draws through the battery switch to whatever bank is selected."The + and - wiring from the I/C to the house bank should be 00 wire, really BIG and heavy.Usually wiring to and from the banks to the switch is #4 or just a tad larger since it's only needed to be sized for less than 30 amps DC (how much jiuce can you really ever pull OUT of the batteries?).Doing the inverter/charger wiring through the switch just doesn't sound right.Check it out tomorrow and let's keep going through this.

 

[Rick D]

Wiring

The leads into the switch are 1/0 from the batteries and the Freedom. RDPS: remember that this was two 220 amp banks before I combined them into one bank on bank one, so the Freedom charger input would have to go though the switch to charge them on 'both', right???

 

[Rick D]

Wiring

The leads into the switch are 1/0 from the batteries and the Freedom. RDPS: remember that this was two 220 amp banks before I combined them into one bank on bank one, so the Freedom charger input would have to go though the switch to charge them on 'both', right???