Lines to Cockpit/Shareing the Load

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Squidd

.
Sep 26, 2011
890
AMF Alcort Paceship PY26 Washburn Wi. Apostle Islands
Question....the way my running gear is set up now, (winch/pulley/cleat) I can only run one halyard to the cockpit...I believe it was set up for the Main.

I have a hank on jib, it has its own sheel lines/pullies/winchs (to cockpit)...I want to put a down haul to the forestay and run that to the cockpit as well as the jib halyard...

My thinking is when sailing with my bride, I would want her to hold a bearing into the wind with the tiller while I go up and hoist the main, adjust the slides and tighten the halyard to mast cleat *all up on deck/standing at the mast...

Then I would go forward, un bag, hank on, and layout sheets for jib and then she could "winch" the halyard from the cockpit while I adjust the hanks clear the lines set the foot on jib/genoa...

Does that make sense workload wise...? and safety on fore deck wise..?

Or would she/inexperienced crew have too much to do pulling sheets, winching halyard "and" holding tiller and would it be better if I did that and sent them forward...?
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,266
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Your set-up is hard to follow ...

Personally, my preference is to hoist the sails from the cockpit and make it a one-person job while the other person steers. I wasn't able to follow your set-up so I'll describe my preference (it's not clear why you have the ability to just hoist one halyard from the cockpit).

You also seem willing to put in the work but a lot of my preference depends upon your willingness to spend money on the hardware.

If you don't have two cabin-top winches, you should. If you have a winch or two on the mast, all the better for goodies like spinnakers and such. Your boat sounds very similar to mine so I am assuming you have 4 sheaves at the top of the mast (like the wheels of a car). With this configuration, you can have 2 internal halyards on one side and an external halyard going across two sheaves. The internal halyards exit the front for your head sail and the rear for your mainsail. The external halyard can be used fore or aft, depending on your desire. OR you can have four internal halyards with one for each sheave. I have the 1st set-up. If you only have an exit hole for one halyard, it won't hurt to add another ... you just have to buy the hardware and plan the location. If I want 4 internal halyards, I have to drill 2 more holes.

Ok, your internal halyards exit the mast near the base. To bring them back to the cockpit, you need blocks at the base of the mast and deck organizers outboard to run your lines aft to the winches. Install clutches for as many lines as you want to secure in front of the winches so that you can secure the lines when loaded and free up the winch on both sides. You don't want cleats on the cabin top for this function because they are typically mounted aft of the winch (I had them and removed them) where they secure only the line that is already on the winch. Once your halyard is secured with a cleat, your winch is useless. I use the winches for outhaul, vang, 2 reefs, 3 halyards, and cunningham. That's eight lines so I have 4 clutches and a winch for each side. I like having all lines leading to the cockpit. There is a reason for this ... on a small boat like ours, the cabin top is not a good place to stand. Bigger boats have much more room at the mast so you can feel more secure there. Ours is too small, so I like lines led to the cockpit.

To run these line to the cockpit from the base of the mast involves a number of blocks mounted in a variety of manners. It is too hard to explain so you'll have to use your imagination. The turning blocks mounted to the mast for the halyards are very expensive (2 came with the boat - 1 I had to purchase) so you have to weigh your priorities. The other blocks were not so bad. The deck organizers were simple, they are 2 stacked over 2 on each side and the new 4 sheave organizers fit the same footprint as my original 2 sheave organizers. Many people don't like mounting blocks on the cabin top at the mast ... you have to weigh-in on your own regarding that issue.

Ok now that I have explained the set-up, here is the application. With Sue motoring and steering, I raise the main and set it for close-haul sailing. Sue either continues to motor and falls off slightly or she cuts the engine and falls off a little more so we are sailing with just the main. I grab the sail bag and head for the bow (usually it's already there when we leave the mooring or slip). I hank on the sail from bottom to top and and leave it in a pile on the foredeck. I work the sheets throught the fairleads and set the leeward sheet around the cockpit winch and cleat it so that when I raise the sail it doesn't flog. The windward sheet is just led thru the fairlead and flaked near Sue's position at the stern (near the other cockpit winch).

Then I hoist the headsail. If there is a lot of wind, Sue has to pinch so that I can raise it without too much trouble. I only like to use the winch for the last few inches. When I singlehand, I basically use the same procedure except that I hank on the headsail before leaving the dock so that I don't have to go forward while underway. If I'm lucky, the hanks don't snag on the rigging components just above the stem, so I don't have to go forward, but 25% of the time I have to unsnag something so that is where you really have to be careful if alone (on Lake Superior, I would NEVER have the same cavalier attitude about going forward - we have very flat, WARM water so going in is a remote possibility and taking a swim is not a life-threatening issue). If my helm is reasonably balanced and I use bungees to secure the wheel, I can do all this without too much course adjustment while underway. I usually have the engine motoring until the headsail is up when singlehanding. If I did end up in the water, the boat would pretty rapidly head into turning tight circles, so swimming to the ladder would not be too much of a problem, probably more embarrassment than anything else.

I hank it from bottom to top so it isn't falling in my way as I work up the sail. If we have crew, I will have them set the sheets and the hoist the sail while I am hanking from top to bottom. This works reasonably well and it gives them something to do rather than just sitting in the cockpit.

My headsail halyard is on port side so I like to be on port tack when hoisting the headsail. By moving the traveler down, I don't have a problem with the boom being right over my head while hoisting. It's a simple routine that gets refined with practice.

BTW, I've never felt a need for a downhaul on the head sail. With a little practice, I just maneuver the boat so that when I release the clutch, it all falls on the deck instead of the water. I don't understand why there should be a need to drag the headsail down with a downhaul.

The photo shows the set-up on stbd side. Draping the halyard over the winch is a bad habit that I haven't broken.

BTW, I've noted before how similar your boat is to mine in size and weight so I felt like my experiences are particularly relevant.
 

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Oct 26, 2005
2,057
- - Satellite Beach, FL.
I hank on my genoa (a bungee keeps it under control at the bow), attach the halyard and run the sheets to the cockpit, remove the mainsail cover, remove 2 of 3 sail ties and attach the main halyard before leaving the dock.
When I'm ready to raise sail, I kindly ask the Mrs to take us into the wind and I go forward, remove the bungee and the last sail tie, hoist the main then the genny (or just the genny), coil the halyards and tuck them behind the taunt part running up the mast and return to the cockpit. Takes a couple of minutes and I'm ready to sheet the sails after kindly asking the Mrs to fall off a bit.
A little practice and it goes pretty smooth.

Wonder why the "halyard"s are hyperlinked? Scott must have broke something.:)
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,188
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
If I had to choose one, I'd rather have the jib halyard in the cockpit than the main. Nine times out of ten, I hoist the main before I leave the dock or mooring, leaving the sheet uncleated so it can weather vane freely without affecting the boat when I maneuver out into the harbor.

I also hank the jib on before leaving... I used to tie down the flaked sail with a slipknot to the pulpit stanchion.... the slip end was long enough to reach back to the cockpit.... this kept the sail under control until it was ready to hoist. When that happened I simply yanked the slipknotted line to free the sail, then with a few wraps on the halyard winch I hauled up the sail by hand...... steering the boat with the tiller between my knees.... easy-speazy... sail's up.. now I reach over, still steering with my knees and trim in the sheet (it's already pre set and on the winch)... now I can bear off and fine tune.... this is where the tiller pilot or crew comes in handy.

Finally, after about 5 years of this method, I figured out that rigging a jib downhaul was much more logical.... All you really need is a small block(don't call it a pulley... please.... that's so NOT nautical) at the stemhead to turn the small diameter line back along the life lines to a handy location near the tiller, and a few small blocks shackled to the stanchion bases as guides. On my 27 footer I use 1/8 inch polyester braid for the downhaul... There is very little load.

I tie the downhaul line with a buntline hitch to the first hank rather than the head where the halyard shackle attaches. This prevents the downhaul from pulling the top corner of the sail over at an angle that often binds up the hank to the forestay when you're trying to pull the sail down.... it's works better when the line is attached to the hank itself.

Learn to tie a buntline hitch.... this is a perfect application for it... you can tie it first then snub it up to the hank and it won't slip open or come undone by any flogging.

What's cool about the downhaul is that it not only keeps the sail under control on deck, it also keeps the halyard taut.... something the old slipknotted line or bungee cord method couldn't prevent.

Of even greater convenience is dropping the sail under total control right on the foredeck.... the halyard in one hand, the down haul in the other... again, steering with my knees... I guide the boat under the sail till it's on deck.... the downhaul keeps it secure just as before... no going forward to bungee it up. SMART and SAFE.
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
I never cared much about having halyards led back to the cockpit because I have a smaller boat with an autopilot and it's easier for me to do everything including reefing, right at the mast. Very few sloops are set up to where you can do reefing and everything else, right from the cockpit and the O'Day 272 comes to mind as one of those sloops in which you can.
Probably the smartest thing I've ever done was to buy a CDI roller Furler for my boat.
When I had a hank-on Gennie years ago, I worried more about falling overboard trying to wrestle with it than I did standing at my mast pulling up my Mainsail. I guess it's a matter of preference and what you are used to.

Today, I love being able to roll my Gennie up from the cockpit and that's the only line I want lead back to the cockpit.
I anchor under sail most of the time when I have adequate room. As soon as that anchor is down, the Mainsail is lowered and covered even if I only intend to be there for 20 or 30 minutes to bring my dog over to dry land in the kayak to curb.
I'm aware of the fact that roller furlers are pricey for larger boats but if you want to be able to single hand your boat, or just be able to walk to the bow and bag your Gennie, a good autopilot is worth having. I wouldn't sail anywhere without my Autohelm ST 1000+.
On the bay where I sail, there's a high point of land that can block a strong wind once you get leeward of it. On countless times I've been able to into this sheltered area and reef my Mainsail while sailing along under the autopilot. Then again,--my boat is smaller than yours and I can sometimes get away with reefing at the mast under sail.
With an autopilot steering you can use your engine to power the boat while you go forward and do what needs to be done with the sails. When you become a "Geezer" some day, you may want to think about buying a roller furler. You'll never be sorry.
Joe
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,029
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Jib downhaul

I agree with Joe (C27), the jib downhaul is a neat addition. Here's another way to drop your headsail: sail on port tack and then heave to. Your jib will be backed. Drop it by releasing the halyard and pulling in the downhaul. The jib will flake on the foredeck and essentially flake itself because of the direction of the hanks, so instead of having to fold the sail before you roll it into the bag, it will have already done the folding for you.
 

Squidd

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Sep 26, 2011
890
AMF Alcort Paceship PY26 Washburn Wi. Apostle Islands
That sounds like the plan I was coming up with for downhaul... Bought several micro "blocks" (not mini pulleys ;) ) and a hank of 3/16" line..Thought it might be light but your probably right not much load on the downhaul less it gets hung up...

Never thought of it holding the luff down on deck but makes sense...Also like the "auto flakeing effect...

Looks like I'll be getting a deck organizer and longer halyard, a couple cam locks and an extra cleat and running both Halyards back.. That and a tiller tamer and I should have a good handle on it no matter what the crew...
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,188
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
That sounds like the plan I was coming up with for downhaul... Bought several micro "blocks" (not mini pulleys ;) ) and a hank of 3/16" line..Thought it might be light but your probably right not much load on the downhaul less it gets hung up...

Never thought of it holding the luff down on deck but makes sense...Also like the "auto flakeing effect...

Looks like I'll be getting a deck organizer and longer halyard, a couple cam locks and an extra cleat and running both Halyards back.. That and a tiller tamer and I should have a good handle on it no matter what the crew...
Sounds like you're good to go with the additions you've mentioned. I will suggest investing $20 in an extendable boat hook... http://www.amazon.com/Seachoice-710...EODW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1328952158&sr=8-2 many, many uses for this tool.. from grabbing mooring line, or fending off a piling. I use the boat hook to flip the fenders up on deck, rather than leave the cockpit to untie them, if I'm only out for a few hours.. It is very, very uncool to leave the fenders hanging out once you're away from the dock area, heh, heh.
 
Nov 28, 2009
495
Catalina 30 St. Croix
When I had a boat with hanks, I bought a threaded rod and put a nut at either end. One was permanently locked in place. The other could be easily removed. I used this to keep all the hanks together when removing them from the headstay. No need to reorganize the luff or look for hanks next time the sail is taken out of the bag.
 
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