Line routing to cockpit

[tenacity31]

I've read a lot of general guidance about this topic on this forum. Seeeking some specific advice/product recommendations based on my deck arrangement. I apologize in advance - I am not very familiar with the intricacies of all the different variations of turning blocks and deck hardware that are available.

Due to my deck size, I am probably limited to 3 lines on either side. Currently, I am planning for the following arrangement (Jib halyard omitted do to furling line already being routed to cockpit - don't need to frequently operate the jib halyard):

PORT:
-Main halyard
-Outhaul
-#2 Reefing line

STBD:
-Staysail halyard
-Boom Vang
-#1 Reefing line

The image below shows how I am envisioning this needs to be done. I am open to any and all advise, but some specific questions I have are:
- Is it feasible to mount blocks on the existing mast step? If so, how would you recommend? This would eliminate the need for extra backing plates for deck mounted hardware. If deck mounted blocks are needed, what type of block would best suite this purpose?
- What would the best hardware choice for the second set of turning blocks? The more I think about it, I don't think standup blocks are the answer. Probably needs to be something with a horizontal sheave?
-

 

[jssailem]

You have room under the dodger for the rope clutches?
You may want to think about a small #10 winch to help you hual the sail up the mast. You can do a perfect job with routing the lines and still have friction that make the hoist difficult.

Personally I am partial to using the halyards a the mast.

 

[tenacity31]

You have room under the dodger for the rope clutches?
You may want to think about a small #10 winch to help you hual the sail up the mast. You can do a perfect job with routing the lines and still have friction that make the hoist difficult.

Personally I am partial to using the halyards a the mast.

Would install another winch on the STBD side just like is currently present on the port side. Was thinking of having the clutch located outside the dodger (forward of the traveler) but could also feasibly mount the clutch inside the cockpit. Looks like there is ample space for a clutch and a winch.

 

[dmax]

to what John said.

Many mast steps have provisions for attaching mast blocks like this one:

https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/mast-boom-mast-boom-blocks-hardware/mast-blocks/mast-block-40-mc/

It doesn't look like yours has attachment points however - you may need to use stand-up blocks or possibly fashion a way to attach blocks at the base.

For the second set of blocks, you want to use something like this:

https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/deck-blocks-hardware-mast-boom-blocks-hardware/deck-organizers/deck-organizer-40-do-tb/

 

[jssailem]

Was thinking of having the clutch located outside the dodger (forward of the traveler)

The reason folks run their lines to the cockpit is to have the feeling of safety inside the cockpit. The clutches in from of the cockpit would negate this advantage. The most dangerous places on a boat is on the sides of the boat in front of the cockpit and being not attentive, in the cockpit, to the dangers that are there. When I am at the mast my full attention is on the task I am doing and how the boat is reacting. I also get to look around the boat and assure myself that all is ship shape and ready for action. If there is a line or a tie down loose, I can correct it.

 

[garymalmgren]

A waste of time and efforts having the clutches outside the dodger.
You would have to have self tailing winches (port and starboard) to hold the line while you go outside to engage the clutch.
Extra expense for no gain. See, we just saved you money.

I don't use the outhaul often, but I use the topping lift every time I go out.
I have the boom weight suspended to raise the main, then release the topping lift.
Opposite operation for dropping the main and stowing the boom.
So, I have my topping lift back at the cockpit. How does that sound to you?

With the staysail, you will need to go forward to hank the sail so you might as well hoist it at the mast while you are there. Same with dousing the sail. You can rig the halyard back to the cockpit but leave the winch on the mast and have it both ways.

Looks like a fun job. Enjoy.

gary

 

[FDL S2]

I've read a lot of general guidance about this topic on this forum. Seeeking some specific advice/product recommendations based on my deck arrangement. I apologize in advance - I am not very familiar with the intricacies of all the different variations of turning blocks and deck hardware that are available.

Due to my deck size, I am probably limited to 3 lines on either side. Currently, I am planning for the following arrangement (Jib halyard omitted do to furling line already being routed to cockpit - don't need to frequently operate the jib halyard):

PORT:
-Main halyard
-Outhaul
-#2 Reefing line

STBD:
-Staysail halyard
-Boom Vang
-#1 Reefing line

The image below shows how I am envisioning this needs to be done. I am open to any and all advise, but some specific questions I have are:
- Is it feasible to mount blocks on the existing mast step? If so, how would you recommend? This would eliminate the need for extra backing plates for deck mounted hardware. If deck mounted blocks are needed, what type of block would best suite this purpose?
- What would the best hardware choice for the second set of turning blocks? The more I think about it, I don't think standup blocks are the answer. Probably needs to be something with a horizontal sheave?
- View attachment 212480

I have blocks at the mast step, two are on attached to the pins with shackles and one is a standup block on the base. First picture -starboard with the black line is my spinnaker halyard, stbd gray line is out haul. Port gray is reef line. Second picture is starboard stacked turning blocks with main halyard, spinnaker halyard, outhaul and spinnaker pole down haul.

 

[Joe]

Would install another winch on the STBD side just like is currently present on the port side. Was thinking of having the clutch located outside the dodger (forward of the traveler) but could also feasibly mount the clutch inside the cockpit. Looks like there is ample space for a clutch and a winch.
View attachment 212485

The clutches need to be ahead of the winch for effective operation, In this pic there is limited room between the existing winch and the dodger So....to to keep everything inside the dodger, relocate the winch as far aft as possible, to give you more space ahead of them.
That means moving the existing winch, and the new starboard winch back, closer to the cockpit. That's what I did on my boat, no proplem. You won't need that horn cleat anymore, get rid of it. Putting the halyard clutch outside the dodger is not a good idea.
Mount a deck organizer, as pictured in dmax's post to route the lines around the hatch. They come in multiple configurations.
In my opinion, main halyard should be on starboard, jib and staysail halyards on port. You won't use a winch for things that have tackle already, such as the vang and out haul. Primary use is for halyards and reef line.
Finally, I would consider installing a rigid vang, which will eliminate the need for a topping lift. The size garhaurer rigid vang recommends for your boat is 20:1 so you ormally don't need a winch to operate it, but it is very convenient to have the vang control line routed to a cleat in the cockpit.

 

[stickinthemud57]

Lots of good, specific advice here.

At the risk of stating the obvious...

Downsides of halyards at mast (HAM)
-Greater hazard of injury or falling overboard when raising sails or adjusting halyard tension.
-Getting flogged by the jib.

Downside of halyards led aft (HLA):
-Drag is introduced at every pulley, so hoisting will require a bit more effort. Also, hauling downward (as one would with HAM) is physically easier than hauling horizontally, as with HLA.
-Deck and cockpit or cabin clutter is greater with HLA.
-HLA will most likely require replacement of halyards

That said, the safety aspect of HLA outweighs the disadvantages in my opinion, and will significantly decrease the number of times one must stand at the mast.

I agree that the clutches need to be inside the dodger, that there should be a winch handy for tensioning the halyards, and that the clutches should be ahead of the winch.

 

[thinwater]

I've had both. I like it as-is. Less friction. Grinding a sail up is a pain, but body weight makes it pretty easy. Jacklines, including a clipping point at the mast, keep it safe.

 

[Dalliance]

I currently have everything except reef lines led back to the cockpit. Garhauer is the place to go for most of what you need.
Upright turning blocks, vertical or spring base as needed, at the mast base. In my case, there is aluminum plate in the deck below the mast for drill & tap bolting of hardware. As you stated, you need a mast base with attachment holes (Have to unstep the mast to install.) or you’ll need to bolt through the deck. Garhauer is good a customizing these kind of things, so talk to them about what you need. They may have other solutions or suggestions.
For any through bolting, drill larger holes, fill them with thickened epoxy, then drill smaller holes for your bolts to keep water out of your deck core. Bed all your deck hardware with butyl.
Horizontal deck organizers. Vertical blocks here would be an added trip hazard. Mine were originally double on a raised pad, so I went with double stacked and just have an extra sheave, possibly for reef lines in the future.
Rope clutches inside the dodger, forward of the winches even though not every line needs to be winched. Outside the dodger kind of defeats the purpose of leading the lines aft. I also have my traveler cleats inside the dogder, as far aft on the cabintop as possible and just recently upgraded them from annoying v-cleats to Harken PXR.

Edit: My genoa halyard runs back to a cabintop winch only once a year because it’s on a roller furler. It runs through a foot block cleat on the deck near the bottom of the mast and is coiled up and hung on the mast until the genoa comes down for winter storage. You already have a winch and cleat at the mast for that, which is ideal.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

It would be helpful to identify the boat such as year and make to include the mast as well. There is a mast I’d tag at the bottom of the mast but could not make it out. Could help to see if there is another mast base you can install that you can attach blocks to

 

[jssailem]

Downsides of halyards at mast (HAM)
-Greater hazard of injury or falling overboard when raising sails or adjusting halyard tension.
-Getting flogged by the jib.

Both these are valid observations, yet mitigated. Being comfortable moving about the boat is a critical skill for a skipper. THere will be days when you must move to the fore deck. You will need to know how to do this safely.

Tools are available, like jack lines and tethers (that are placed and constructed so you cannot fall beyond the lifelines). Hand holds. Hard points to attach a tether and "granny bars" (braces at the the mast to lean against while you work). Additionally recognizing that you must move about with a hand hold and the life lines are to be pulled up to fix your feet solidly on the deck are skills that empower the skipper and crew. I will never send a crew member to do something on the boat that I will not do or I think they can not handle. It is my responsibility to teach crew the safety skills as much as to let them have fun.

Being at the mast to tend/trim the sails is an excellent time to assure the bow of the boat is ready to handle the coming weather conditions. As secure as we make anchors, chains, tied down toys (dinghy's), something is always working itself loose.

The most dangerous thing I have seen on a headsail is the heavy metal shackles used to connect the clew/head of the sail to the sheets or halyard. I have eliminated/reduced that danger by the use of "soft shackles" where ever feasible.

We each have our plan. Work hard to assure the safety plan and then implement it.

 

[tenacity31]

It would be helpful to identify the boat such as year and make to include the mast as well. There is a mast I’d tag at the bottom of the mast but could not make it out. Could help to see if there is another mast base you can install that you can attach blocks to

It is a 1980 Southern Cross 31. I have no knowledge if it’s the original mast or not. I can’t find any identifiers on the mast. The tag on the bottom was an old registration sticker

 

[stickinthemud57]

Both these are valid observations, yet mitigated...We each have our plan. Work hard to assure the safety plan and then implement it.

All very true. It is the responsibility of the skipper to be knowledgeable and capable enough to operate their boat even in the most rudimentary manner. Conveniences (such as halyards led aft) should not become a crutch.

There are myriad levels of sailing, going from small boats in protected waters to big boats on the Ocean Blue. A skipper must know the limitations of himself, his crew, and his boat and stay within them.

BTW, very good observation on the metal shackle at the jib clew. Ouch.

 

[Joe]

Just a heads up to some of you guys who need a picture. The Southern Cross 31 is NOT a production boat. It is a masthead rigged cutter with canoe stern. Many of the 130 boats produced were sold as kits and finished at the owner's home area or completed by professionals under contract or for resale. This boat has a number of circumnavigations in its pedigree and thus can be considered a "bluewater" vessel. These pics are taken from a listing ..... but I have not included any sales info. I just wanted to show you all to understand that we're not dealing with your typical Mac, Hunter or Catalina. This is more in the Westsail 32 realm of yachting than the Cat 22. I like it.

 

[Dalliance]

Would install another winch on the STBD side just like is currently present on the port side. Was thinking of having the clutch located outside the dodger (forward of the traveler) but could also feasibly mount the clutch inside the cockpit. Looks like there is ample space for a clutch and a winch.
View attachment 212485

Taking a closer look at this photo, I see why you’re thinking of putting the clutches forward of the dodger. You need to notch or tunnel through your wrap around coaming to get the lines through to the cockpit. An added complication, but feasible.

 

[tenacity31]

Taking a closer look at this photo, I see why you’re thinking of putting the clutches forward of the dodger. You need to notch or tunnel through your wrap around coaming to get the lines through to the cockpit. An added complication, but feasible.

Was planning on tunneling through the coaming regardless of where the clutches are in order to make a straight run to the winch. This thread has made the error of my thinking abundantly clear and convinced to mount the clutches in the cockpit now

 

[kappykaplan]

convinced to mount the clutches in the cockpit now