Line Diameter For Mid-Sail Reef Ties --Go Monster or Minimize?

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Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
Here's a question/topic that I don't recall having seen discussed in the three years I've been following the SailboatOwners forum:

The two mainsails that I have (one that was on the boat when I bought and the other a pre-owned Catalina 36 full batten), both came with 7/16" line for the mid-sail reef ties that are used to gather up the loose sail after securing the reef's tack and clew.

This diameter seems like over-kill? The lines are heavy and cumbersome. From what I've read, and how I'm doing it, is that these lines should only loosely gather up the excess sail. Not much if any tension should be on the line.

For 30' - 40' boat owners, what is the diameter that most of you have? What are sailmakers putting on new sails?

I've got some 1/4" and 5/16" sta-set type of line laying around somewhere. I'm considering to make the switch. I'm thinking that the main problem with smaller lines is that the reef knots will be harder to untie. Other than that, what's the downside?

In the strong wind we often have on San Francisco Bay, really light 1/8" or 1/4" hi-tech Dyeema or AmSteel products might fly almost straight back and serve as tell tales!
 
D

Deleted member 78819

Here's a question/topic that I don't recall having seen discussed in the three years I've been following the SailboatOwners forum:

The two mainsails that I have (one that was on the boat when I bought and the other a pre-owned Catalina 36 full batten), both came with 7/16" line for the mid-sail reef ties that are used to gather up the loose sail after securing the reef's tack and clew.

This diameter seems like over-kill? The lines are heavy and cumbersome. From what I've read, and how I'm doing it, is that these lines should only loosely gather up the excess sail. Not much if any tension should be on the line.

For 30' - 40' boat owners, what is the diameter that most of you have? What are sailmakers putting on new sails?

I've got some 1/4" and 5/16" sta-set type of line laying around somewhere. I'm considering to make the switch. I'm thinking that the main problem with smaller lines is that the reef knots will be harder to untie. Other than that, what's the downside?

In the strong wind we often have on San Francisco Bay, really light 1/8" or 1/4" hi-tech Dyeema or AmSteel products might fly almost straight back and serve as tell tales!
The 1/4 or 5/16 sta-set will do just fine. You are correct, 7/16 is over kill...
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Well used line is best as it is not as slippery as new line.
 
Aug 11, 2010
5
Etchells International Etchells Elephant Butte Lake
Finger comfort is also important...think about untying a wet reef on a bouncy boat, so the ideal line would have a nice feel. But the 5/16" sounds great.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,240
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Are you leaving them tied into the sail? I don't, cause I hate the way it looks. I think the smaller diameter is fine, but if you just took them out of the sail when not reefed it wouldn't make any difference. When I reef I don't usually tie in the nettles, but if I do I use the sail ties used for storing the sail on the boom, mine happen to be lengths of flat webbing.

The most important comment I ever read about this was to use COLORED cord/webbing so you would remember to remove them before releasing the corners to prevent tearing the sail. Mainly, for that reason, I don't tie them in unless I'm on a long haul.

If you look at some of the pics of ocean sailors (jessica watson, for example) you'll never see their reefed sails with nettles tied in.

I wasn't aware that sailmakers included nettles with their sails, is that something new?

As far as actually tying them... well I think a simple bow tie works quite well.

If you have a loop in one end, you can thread the free end in to the cringle, pull it around the sail, through the loop and then cinch it with a slip knot.

My sail ties are one inch wide and cut at an angle, no loops. I just grab one, thread it through the cringle and tie it off like a shoelace.

Since there's no stress on the little chingaderas line diameter is a personal preference.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
5/16" is quite adequate, even for large area mainsails.

The reef knot does have to or should be modified because of the small diameter line so it doesnt shake loose: I tie a 'shoelace bow knot' with and extra 'wrap' around the 'loop', a little harder to 'slip the knot' loose .... good for shoes too http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
 

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,431
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
When we reef we generally leave the reef cringles alone and let the belly of the sail simply lie there unless it's flapping around too much (it needs to be blowing about 35 or so for that) or catching water (on a broad reach, or downwind). If that's the case we'll run a sailtie through a cringle or two and simply bunch up the bottom of the sail. Our main is loose-footed, so to avoid putting too much pressure on the cringle we don't go 'round the boom with the sailties- we only tie up the sail.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,722
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I generally don't use them unless the sail is getting pooped with water. They make for more difficult sail trimming. If you have to use them put them in after you have dialed in the sail trim and you'll be good to go. 5/16" is fine. The only time I found I actually needed them was in a named storm. I generally just tuck and flake the foot of the sail and it seems to stay put. Make reefing/shaking it out easier and faster.. Though my current sail is not loose footed, boom not set up for it,:doh: I did use slugs instead of a bolt rope so I can go around the sail rather than around the boom..
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,117
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
Thanks all for the considered responses.

I sort of like the idea of removing the mid-sail reef ties and just threading lines through when needed. Actually, I will try a compromise -- just leave in the middle of the three ties on each reef point. That one tie alone should be enough to give some visual and physical order to the loose bundled sail on the boom.

As for not tying the bundle up at all, on the central San Francisco Bay, which by default is my sailing area, the winds are most often blowing considerably. Reefing is necessary for comfort, to minimize the constant fighting with the helm; and over the longer term probably reduces cummulative over-stressing the rig. Even though the wind velocity drops (sometimes to nothing) when out of the central bay, it's often not worth taking out the reef when in another 30-60 minutes I'll be back in the gale. Being an entire afternoon or day reefed, its nice to look up at the sail and see the bundle on the boom look organized.

Again thanks.
 
Jun 8, 2004
853
Pearson 26W Marblehead
reef point ties

Mostly I just leave it hanging less work or sometimes I flake it with half the dead area on either side of the boom. I dont use ties much If I do I use something about 3/16 Tie em loose theye not there for strength just convenience. I reef often. given the choice I prefer not to roll a jib down. I will take my main down first.
 
May 23, 2007
1,306
Catalina Capri 22 Albany, Oregon
I use those loop type bungees with the ball on them. Since we have a loose footed main I generally just wrap the sail and don't wrap them around the boom. In a "real" blow I'd probably use rope instead.
 
May 25, 2004
958
Hunter 260 Pepin, WI
I use small diameter lines that I leave in place. I also like my boat to look neat and tidy, even when reefed. I roll the excess tight to make as small a profile as possible before I tie it. I use a simple square knot.

Once I have the reef in I generally don't shake it out until the next time I raise the main. If I don't need the main reefed, the conditions are such that I don't have to worry about pitching decks as I shake it out. I've never had a problem getting the square knots loose.
 
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