Lightning fix

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
I’ve been reading a lot about lightning protection and I’ve devised a plan.

I’m assuming everyone here is pretty familiar with the topic, so rather than beat the pros and cons to death I’m working on the premise that providing a good path to ground is the goal, accomplished primarily by grounding the base of the mast to the ocean.

I sail in brackish to salty water, so this helps with the grounding effort.

My idea, which may or may not be original is thus: On my Oday 22 the mast step is supported by an in-cabin wood stanchion and is, of course, directly over the fixed lead keel. I want to drill up into the mast step and down into the lead keel fin and connect the two with a heavy gauge #4 copper wire running straight down the stanchion from mast step to keel. Alternately, I could replace the wood stanchion with a pipe, and then perform the pipe to mast/keel connection (I like this idea better for both structural and electrical conduction reasons).

The reason I think this is such cool concept is that you want to avoid bends, especially 90 degree bends, in the copper which can result in current jumps. Also I don’t want an ugly copper wire visible on the outside, in addition to corrosion concerns between the salt, copper and aluminum, being in the cabin will reduce this effect, but still warrant proper bi-metal connection.

The remaining concern is bonding all the other metal items, stays, shrouds, etc, to each other and then to ground (keel) via lighter #8 copper wire. I think an under deck solution to this is possible also, but less elegant in that twists and turns are inevitable. I think, however, if I follow the natural curve of the hull this will be minimal.

This may be the way it’s always done, but the idea hit me like a lightning bolt. :) Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

kpg

 
Apr 29, 2010
209
MacGregor m25 Erieau, Ontario, Canada
Is having an exposed metal pipe that is going to conduct thousands of volts of electricity (think skin effect) in the center of your saloon a good idea?

This is really a question not sarcasm.

Frank
 

kenn

.
Apr 18, 2009
1,271
CL Sandpiper 565 Toronto
The best lightning protection for a small sailboat is to snuggle up close to a bigger sailboat. :D

I honestly don't know if you can really prep small boats like ours properly for lightning. The cabin's so small that you can't get away from any surface. There's not the same amount of wiring. Also, you run the risk of blowing off your keel or having a fire or hot point at the keel pivot or grounded thru-hull etc etc

If anything... if I was moored out or anchored in a small sailboat and I thought there was a real risk of a lightning strike, I'd disconnect all the electronics, and clip a booster cable to the mast base and hang the other end in the water.

(Duh - I'm forgetting that us little guys can simply lower the mast, too) [ edit: actually, leave the mast UP. the Florida study states that there's more likelihood of a fatality when lightning strikes a boat without a mast ]

Then I'd go ashore and try to find a nice B&B with vacancies. ;)
 
Last edited:
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Is having an exposed metal pipe that is going to conduct thousands of volts of electricity (think skin effect) in the center of your saloon a good idea?

This is really a question not sarcasm.

Well...I did consider that, and ideally, no. However when lightning hits it must, uh, will, go somewhere. So to be sure you would not want to be touching the wire during a lightning storm, just as you should not be touching the tiller, or take a shower or talk on the phone during a lightning storm.

From what I know, electricity will follow the path of least resistance, and that is the point of grounding, getting it to go where you want and not where it wants to go, otherwise it's a crap shoot.

My concern about other routes for the wire was the jumping effect when current meets a bend in the wire, hence the 'straight-down' approach I propose.

My son suggested putting installation on the central wire, and my reply was that 30,000 amps won’t care about a little installation...but I've heard of boaters getting shocked by the 'static' charge from lightning miles away...so this may have merit for near-hits.

I suppose the best situation occurs when you have a metal hull, then, like in a car, you are protected because the current will prefer to travel through metal than humans. To me, wet fiberglass seems to be a poorer conductor than humans.

When I was a flight crewmember in the service we got struck by lightning on approach twice, with no ill effects at all. Lightning just wants to get to ground...the trick is to not get in its way. But then, I'm no expert, I just play one on the Internet.
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
"Guiding the current on the outside rather than through the middle of the boat minimizes shock risk and emi."

hmmmm... maybe I'll just go with kenn's suggestion.
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Lightning Protection

I have a neighbor who is a NASA engineer. He has a 50'Benny which is across the canal and approx.100' from me. He has every possible lightning protection device known to science on it. I on the other hand don't have anything special in the way of lightning prevention. In the past few years, his boat has been hit twice, frying all electronics both times. On the other side of the canal no lightning, no damage. Gonna leave well enough alone.
 
Oct 6, 2008
857
Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina, San Juan 26,38,22,23 Kettle Falls, Washington
My understanding of lightning protection is different.

Our 1990 Island Packet 38 had been lightning protected by the previous owner. He said that what you wanted to do was make the boat invisible to lightning rather than try to direct it overboard.
By making the boats electrical potential the same as the water it was sitting in you remove the cause that makes it a target.
Our boat had a LARGE metal plate on the keel towards the bottom 1/2 of the keel. It was probably 16 by 10 inches and I think it was bronze. Every piece of metal on deck, every motor and every conceivable electric potential item had a wire running from it to that plate thus bonding them together. The part of the plate inside the bilge looked like a buss bar in an electrical service panel. All the wires running from the boat attached on this buss bar. He told me to keep it clean all the time as we were sailing in the Gulf and Keys where lightning was prevelent. There was also a special wand like item atop the mast that had a billion wires sticking out of it that was also part of the system.
We never had a problem but when the previous owner bought another boat before he could install this system it was hit by lightning and fried severly.
Ray
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
to add to nice n easy's post--we went sailing--ended up in every single lightning storm florida had in 2009..lol....we didnt get hit---i attribute it to--
kat
crocs
guardian angels
not in that order

makes as much sense as over"protecting" just to burn it down.....
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
IMHP lightning does not Aim it just gets shot out of the sky :)

Really as my aunts house on the eastern shore also has everything and always gets hit
 

kenn

.
Apr 18, 2009
1,271
CL Sandpiper 565 Toronto
By making the boats electrical potential the same as the water it was sitting in you remove the cause that makes it a target.
That's not correct. The idea behind proper grounding is that any lightning hitting the top of the mast will find a superhighway to ground, instead of a footpath with a bridge washed out.

The downside of this approach is that grounding makes the mast MORE attractive to lightning, not less. [ sorry, I'm wrong about this. The Florida study states that mast grounding DOES NOT increase the likelihood of being struck ]

It sounds like your Island Packet had a well-thought-out protection system. Was it ever struck by lightning, to your knowledge?

I think the decision to install lightning protection will be dictated by the amount of expected lightning exposure, and whether you have an inboard engine and metal thruhulls or not. If you do have an inboard and bronze thruhulls, then you also likely have a bonding system and sacrificial anodes to protect against electrolysis. Which means you've already got a ground system, and you might as well ground the mast to it as well. This is just a guess, not speaking from experience... yet ;)

(BTW, I'm planning to complete the ABYC certification on boat electrical systems this fall, so I'm very interested in this stuff right now)

[edit - some more links on boats and lightning ]
 
Last edited:

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
ahhh--she needs the kat, crocs and a rubber hat and gloves--then it will miss her and her lightning rod.....

mebbe she needs to place the lightning rod away from the house???;)


in the flla study, did they send someone out sailing iinto many lighting storms as a control???? every study needs a control......what did they use as that???? would be interesting to find out how they came to that conclusion..lol.....as far as i can see, having spent 3 damnear solid days in the stuff, is random and doesnt seek out your boat---if it did --we'd'a' been dead twice or thrice..lol or more.....
just curious-----is just a year we spent sailing gulf --mostly florida during lightning season--which, btw , is year round..LOL....we were anchored, we were docked and we were sailing under strictly sail and we were sailing under mechanical genny...LOL...youda thunk that in a year of this we would have been hit once---dang--we were fortunate--i wore crocs, had my boatkat , wishing i had a rubber hat!! and wishing my sailing gloves were rubber also--LOL.....

so--does that mean you have more likelihood of not being hit if underway rather than at dock??? docks do have things that attract other electricity-lol....go figger--mebbe we need to start a study......

oh --lightning doesnt get shot--it is the friction between air masses--between dense and less dense air merging or trying to during frontal changes.....kinda like what ye do to yer kat during dry spells whenye want to pet the critter-or yer slacks on the nice plastic seat you have to slide across..lol..only 40k times or more-worse.....:eek:
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
FWIW - Ive been hit several times when at sea. The 'last' time I somehow got under a convergence of several cells with Lots of cloud to cloud lightning. There was a LOW cloud to cloud strike and apparently a side strike WENT UP from my boat .... leaving ALL my electronics FRIED ---- and not ONE fuse or breaker tripped.
I now have fuses on the GROUND side of all my sensitive electronics. Some of my acquaintances who are 'electronics experts' also recommend RF (radio frequency) "polyphase arrestors - in the 1Mhz range" as lightning sometimes is principally a radio frequency RF event.

The URL that I listed previously is the commercial website of the former Florida State Univ. 'lightning guru' ... who seems to have greatly changed his story since his tenure at FSU.

The moral of the story is that lightning can be an 'amperage event' as well as a 'RF event".
 

Benny

.
Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
The truth of the matter is that there are no proven arrestors or preventors for lightning strikes on a boat. Statiscally there does not seem to be a difference between the frequency and magnitude of damages between protected and non protected boats. The question wether to "ground" or not basically depends on the type of personality of the boat owner. Some are proactive and sleep better knowing they took matters in their own hand and others do nothing and sleep just as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.