I am looking for recommendations on a new MOB setup on my Hunter 35.5. The Lifesling looks compact, complete and generally effective. The only drawback I can see is it is not particularly throwable (unless you get the inflating one). Any others? The other possibilities are rings, horseshoes, throwlines, cushions, ... I have not seen anything to recommend one of these over the other or the Lifesling. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Have I missed some pros/cons of the various solutions? Thanks Jeff p.s. cost isn't really an issue when it comes to safety equipment.
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Life sling
I have both a life sling and horse shoe. The horse shoe on a pole can't be beat in rough and open water. It helps you maintain vissual with your MOB. The life sling is great when the MOB is close by or injured and needs help getting on the boat. Around here I see a combo of both alot, with safety too much is not enough. It's also good to have some light sticks attached to both for night time reacue.
I have both a life sling and horse shoe. The horse shoe on a pole can't be beat in rough and open water. It helps you maintain vissual with your MOB. The life sling is great when the MOB is close by or injured and needs help getting on the boat. Around here I see a combo of both alot, with safety too much is not enough. It's also good to have some light sticks attached to both for night time reacue.
Recommend Both
I'd echo Kens comment. We carry both for different reasons. A horseshoe and pole with flag is good when the boat is moving and you want to mark a spot while the lifesling is more useful when the person is along side. One of my to-do items is to put a small radar reflector on the pole because if the incident is at night it can be helpful to use radar. Editorial comment: The lifesling line should be secured to something solid. The pushpit has very small attachment screws which I don't trust and elect to go with something more solid. If you think about it, all the things you mentioned are more useful than another for a particular situation and sometimes one has to wing-it when every second can count. Offshore cruising will require additional equipment. It's good that you're thinking about this.
I'd echo Kens comment. We carry both for different reasons. A horseshoe and pole with flag is good when the boat is moving and you want to mark a spot while the lifesling is more useful when the person is along side. One of my to-do items is to put a small radar reflector on the pole because if the incident is at night it can be helpful to use radar. Editorial comment: The lifesling line should be secured to something solid. The pushpit has very small attachment screws which I don't trust and elect to go with something more solid. If you think about it, all the things you mentioned are more useful than another for a particular situation and sometimes one has to wing-it when every second can count. Offshore cruising will require additional equipment. It's good that you're thinking about this.
Some concerns
While I normally agree totally with John Nantz, my mentor on a number of ideas, I do have a caution with with throwable items and poles, expecially poles with radar attached. I use to make MOB poles for racing sail boats out of this harbor. At that time, the only one you could get was a Forespar one at big expense. So we bought one and broke it down to see how it was made. Lead in the bottom and flag on top, OK. So we made a few. But then I decided to test them and in a 30 ktn breeze, we took the Forespar and mine out into the bay. The problem with both of them was that in thirty ktns, those two puppies just laid over at about 30 to 45 degrees. In waves, one might not even see them. If you put a strobe (we thought we'd use batteries for weight and put a light on top), it leaned over even more. I lost my trust in either. I also think that if you were in bad weather, finding a blip on the radar screen would be difficult from probably rain interference. I don't want to be adjusting the gain while I should be retrieving a person from the water. What do others think about this? At the moment, I think utopia would be an inflatable suspenders with harness that has a small VHF radio, stobe, whistle. On board a GPS with a MOB button. Here is the problems I found with throwables like the horseshoe. It mandates that the victum swim to it. But the problem lies with most people throwing it. They can't. I don't know of anyone who practices throwing a horseshoe life preserver. If YOU go overboard, can your guest throw it. Probably not. Then you have to swim evan more and that is not good in the waters of the Pacific Northwest. I think we have advanced to better things for MOB activities. I think a special flare ought to be designed that has a white smoke to see in the day, but I would want to test that out as well in heavy winds. We have practiced of going around the victum in the water with the LifeSling and in my opionion, that is the best method of retreiving a person. It appears to be the fastest method. By the way, I also have to teach the ASA method of doing a figure eight with the boat to retrieve a MOB. My rather poor research in this method shows that it takes longer and has the greater potential of loosing sight of the victume because you are doing so much activities in turning the boat. However, my rather loose studies on my part have always been with modern fin keel boats, not a full keel boat. The ASA method may be better for full keel boats. This has been rather long response, but as you can see, my wife and I have thought about it. Being the klutz that I am, I have a fairly high probability of going overboard. I'd like to come home alive.
While I normally agree totally with John Nantz, my mentor on a number of ideas, I do have a caution with with throwable items and poles, expecially poles with radar attached. I use to make MOB poles for racing sail boats out of this harbor. At that time, the only one you could get was a Forespar one at big expense. So we bought one and broke it down to see how it was made. Lead in the bottom and flag on top, OK. So we made a few. But then I decided to test them and in a 30 ktn breeze, we took the Forespar and mine out into the bay. The problem with both of them was that in thirty ktns, those two puppies just laid over at about 30 to 45 degrees. In waves, one might not even see them. If you put a strobe (we thought we'd use batteries for weight and put a light on top), it leaned over even more. I lost my trust in either. I also think that if you were in bad weather, finding a blip on the radar screen would be difficult from probably rain interference. I don't want to be adjusting the gain while I should be retrieving a person from the water. What do others think about this? At the moment, I think utopia would be an inflatable suspenders with harness that has a small VHF radio, stobe, whistle. On board a GPS with a MOB button. Here is the problems I found with throwables like the horseshoe. It mandates that the victum swim to it. But the problem lies with most people throwing it. They can't. I don't know of anyone who practices throwing a horseshoe life preserver. If YOU go overboard, can your guest throw it. Probably not. Then you have to swim evan more and that is not good in the waters of the Pacific Northwest. I think we have advanced to better things for MOB activities. I think a special flare ought to be designed that has a white smoke to see in the day, but I would want to test that out as well in heavy winds. We have practiced of going around the victum in the water with the LifeSling and in my opionion, that is the best method of retreiving a person. It appears to be the fastest method. By the way, I also have to teach the ASA method of doing a figure eight with the boat to retrieve a MOB. My rather poor research in this method shows that it takes longer and has the greater potential of loosing sight of the victume because you are doing so much activities in turning the boat. However, my rather loose studies on my part have always been with modern fin keel boats, not a full keel boat. The ASA method may be better for full keel boats. This has been rather long response, but as you can see, my wife and I have thought about it. Being the klutz that I am, I have a fairly high probability of going overboard. I'd like to come home alive.
Les - Interesting Comments
Les - Thanks for your comments about windage problems. Didn't realize there was a knowledgeable person on this subject nearby. Didn't get the Forespar pole for the reason you mentioned, cost, but opted instead for the one made in Canada. However, the mast joint seems weak on it. And, frankly, I also had concerns about windage of the radar reflector and that's why I mentioned "small", but it has to be good enough to be seen in a couple miles. At 45 knots I'm hopefully hooked up to shorepower somewhere!! Yes, rain and it's "variations" (misting, heavy fog, drizzle, showers, light rain, occasional rain, etc.) here is a problem with radar, and for that matter, even waves, but I was thinking of something that would provide a little more help in locating someone. A horseshoe with a sea anchor could be used to "mark the spot" as best as one can. With regard to gear on the person, I've even thought about having a telescoping pole with collapsible reflector. I've got a relatively small Icom with waterproof bag but, unfortunately, I don't always carry it when I should. The thought about winding up in the water here during adverse conditions is scary because if you aren't out of it in less than 30 minutes that's probably the end of it. A lot of what one needs to carry depends on the situation or conditions one might encounter.
Les - Thanks for your comments about windage problems. Didn't realize there was a knowledgeable person on this subject nearby. Didn't get the Forespar pole for the reason you mentioned, cost, but opted instead for the one made in Canada. However, the mast joint seems weak on it. And, frankly, I also had concerns about windage of the radar reflector and that's why I mentioned "small", but it has to be good enough to be seen in a couple miles. At 45 knots I'm hopefully hooked up to shorepower somewhere!! Yes, rain and it's "variations" (misting, heavy fog, drizzle, showers, light rain, occasional rain, etc.) here is a problem with radar, and for that matter, even waves, but I was thinking of something that would provide a little more help in locating someone. A horseshoe with a sea anchor could be used to "mark the spot" as best as one can. With regard to gear on the person, I've even thought about having a telescoping pole with collapsible reflector. I've got a relatively small Icom with waterproof bag but, unfortunately, I don't always carry it when I should. The thought about winding up in the water here during adverse conditions is scary because if you aren't out of it in less than 30 minutes that's probably the end of it. A lot of what one needs to carry depends on the situation or conditions one might encounter.
home made pole
All the prior thought's are very good. I would construct my own pole. Using a crab or shrimp float, PVC pipe, lead shot style weight, SOLAS reflective tape and flag. Les's is right about 30kt+ wind's, harness up at around 20-25 with sea's, rescue in those kind of conditions would be very hard. If your a good do-it-yourselfer, you can save yourself some $$$$$ and make a good pole yourself that will most likely work as good or better that a store bought pole. Until I can find some space for the Helo and the CG crew on the back, I'll be sure to harness up, and have the life sling and MOB pole & horse shoe at the ready or wait out the weather.
All the prior thought's are very good. I would construct my own pole. Using a crab or shrimp float, PVC pipe, lead shot style weight, SOLAS reflective tape and flag. Les's is right about 30kt+ wind's, harness up at around 20-25 with sea's, rescue in those kind of conditions would be very hard. If your a good do-it-yourselfer, you can save yourself some $$$$$ and make a good pole yourself that will most likely work as good or better that a store bought pole. Until I can find some space for the Helo and the CG crew on the back, I'll be sure to harness up, and have the life sling and MOB pole & horse shoe at the ready or wait out the weather.
Think of The Other End Too
All of your vests should be equipped with a whistle and light sticks at a minimum. Flares, strobe, mirror and a horn are good ideas as well. Personal EPIRB's are getting to the point of almost being affordable. Instead of trying to throw a ring a throw line is something to think about. The most important thing is to keep the MOB in sight so do everything you can to make them more visible.
All of your vests should be equipped with a whistle and light sticks at a minimum. Flares, strobe, mirror and a horn are good ideas as well. Personal EPIRB's are getting to the point of almost being affordable. Instead of trying to throw a ring a throw line is something to think about. The most important thing is to keep the MOB in sight so do everything you can to make them more visible.
MOB thoughts
I also carry a small vhf on my inflatable vest, along with several small self contained flares- I added a scuba tube-a small, 6 ft long sausage you can blow up that rolls up into a small bundle-they're intended to signal a dive boat if you surface away from the boat and need to be picked up-they can be found in most dive shops for under $20- I've "tested" it in 20Kt winds and moderate seas and they work quite well
I also carry a small vhf on my inflatable vest, along with several small self contained flares- I added a scuba tube-a small, 6 ft long sausage you can blow up that rolls up into a small bundle-they're intended to signal a dive boat if you surface away from the boat and need to be picked up-they can be found in most dive shops for under $20- I've "tested" it in 20Kt winds and moderate seas and they work quite well
Safety sausage
Being a Diver, I carry a signaling device Mfg'd by the Trident co. cost is under $10. It is a long tube of 3mm plastic sheeting (about 10' long) with one end closed. you can inflate orally through the open end, then hold the open end under water & the remaining 7 or 8 feet stand high out of the water (flourescent orange color helps too). Not sure how it would hold up in 30kt winds. But it rolls up to fit in any pocket, and is carried by the MOB rather than thrown "near" the MOB. Combined with the inflatable "suspenders" is the best bet IMHO. Maybe they could integrate the two? (Mustang, are you out there?)
Being a Diver, I carry a signaling device Mfg'd by the Trident co. cost is under $10. It is a long tube of 3mm plastic sheeting (about 10' long) with one end closed. you can inflate orally through the open end, then hold the open end under water & the remaining 7 or 8 feet stand high out of the water (flourescent orange color helps too). Not sure how it would hold up in 30kt winds. But it rolls up to fit in any pocket, and is carried by the MOB rather than thrown "near" the MOB. Combined with the inflatable "suspenders" is the best bet IMHO. Maybe they could integrate the two? (Mustang, are you out there?)
When we did a rescue...
...it was off the coast of Guadaloupe at dusk, as we'd come across a windsurfer who's inflatable mast (no, he really was using such a contraption 'offshore') deflated and he was swept out to sea by the current & winds. The learning for me was how handy it was to have a Throw Bag aboard. We were prepared to deploy the Lifesling when we realized we could stop the boat quite near to him and he was in good shape, meaning he could hold onto the rope until we pulled him and his kit alongside. The more unprotected the waters in which you sail, the more useful the Lifesling becomes and the less you should count on a throwable device (which a surveyor told me just yesterday a Lifesling does qualify as, assuming a non-commercial vessel). The far more pressing issue is how you get the person out of the water. There appear to be few simple answers to this with hypothermic rescuees or those who are tired or lack substantial upper body strength. That's why the Lifesling is such a gem of a tool - it's a good way to 'corral' the victim and doubles as Step 1 in getting them aboard. Jack
...it was off the coast of Guadaloupe at dusk, as we'd come across a windsurfer who's inflatable mast (no, he really was using such a contraption 'offshore') deflated and he was swept out to sea by the current & winds. The learning for me was how handy it was to have a Throw Bag aboard. We were prepared to deploy the Lifesling when we realized we could stop the boat quite near to him and he was in good shape, meaning he could hold onto the rope until we pulled him and his kit alongside. The more unprotected the waters in which you sail, the more useful the Lifesling becomes and the less you should count on a throwable device (which a surveyor told me just yesterday a Lifesling does qualify as, assuming a non-commercial vessel). The far more pressing issue is how you get the person out of the water. There appear to be few simple answers to this with hypothermic rescuees or those who are tired or lack substantial upper body strength. That's why the Lifesling is such a gem of a tool - it's a good way to 'corral' the victim and doubles as Step 1 in getting them aboard. Jack
MOB thoughts, part II
The safety sausage I used is coated nylon and has a life vest type inflation valve, more durable and rigid than the plastic kind.... If you use the lifesling, they sell a hoist kit-powerboat and sail versions, to help you get the victim aboard-the sail version is intended to attach to the end of your boom-it's a good solution, lets a small person rescue someone much larger
The safety sausage I used is coated nylon and has a life vest type inflation valve, more durable and rigid than the plastic kind.... If you use the lifesling, they sell a hoist kit-powerboat and sail versions, to help you get the victim aboard-the sail version is intended to attach to the end of your boom-it's a good solution, lets a small person rescue someone much larger
Answers about "Man Overboard" Equiptment
I can certainly see how difficult it can be to purchase and install the right MOB equiptment for your boat. Lots of choices out there! In a nutshell...Lifesling has been proven to be a extremly effective device for two main reasons. 1) The rescue w/ lifesling requires you to circle the victim, thus the sling gets closer and closer like getting a tow rope to a water skier. 2) Unlike other devices, once the victim gets in it, they can methodically be winched aboard your vessel. When purchasing any MOB equiptment, ask yourself those 2 question, can I get the device to the victim, and once that is accomplished, how do we get them safely on board? Go into any store that sells it and they may have a demonstration video, one watching and all your quest. will be answered. By the way, Lifesling was developed up in the Seattle area buy a group of sailors that had lost a friend overboard. It's also effective when sailing with a husband and wife team and the husband goes overboard, the wife can, if used correctly get her husband back on board!
I can certainly see how difficult it can be to purchase and install the right MOB equiptment for your boat. Lots of choices out there! In a nutshell...Lifesling has been proven to be a extremly effective device for two main reasons. 1) The rescue w/ lifesling requires you to circle the victim, thus the sling gets closer and closer like getting a tow rope to a water skier. 2) Unlike other devices, once the victim gets in it, they can methodically be winched aboard your vessel. When purchasing any MOB equiptment, ask yourself those 2 question, can I get the device to the victim, and once that is accomplished, how do we get them safely on board? Go into any store that sells it and they may have a demonstration video, one watching and all your quest. will be answered. By the way, Lifesling was developed up in the Seattle area buy a group of sailors that had lost a friend overboard. It's also effective when sailing with a husband and wife team and the husband goes overboard, the wife can, if used correctly get her husband back on board!
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