Lifelines, yes or no.

[comfortzone]

I was looking at some of the boat pix on this site and was struck by the number of sailboats without lifelines. I have a 22' O'Day and always considered the lifelines a necessary pain in the butt. I know it's a safety factor but obviously there's a number of you out there willing to take the risk and sail without lifelines. Anybody willing to 'fess up?

 

[Bad Obsession]

Some boats have them, some boats don't. I think that most boats over 25 feet have them for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't want a boat without lifelines as I single hand all of the time. It would be foolish to run around the deck without the extra protection that they provide.

Keep the lifelines on there, someday you may be glad that they are there. It is like a seatbelt, it is a pain in the butt until you need it.

 

[sailormanbigd]

lifelines

I second the idea of lifelines. I had a near fatal head slam with the boom of an old 22 southcoast. The air temp was 60degrees, the water was in the 40's and the only thing that kept me in the boat was the lifeline hitting me just below the knee. I am 6'5". For the most part the boats without are racing craft that opt to keep down weight and windage.

 

[Rick D]

Not So Sure...

...on smaller boats. I had a light-displacement wood racer/cruiser (26' T-Bird) for 19 years that had no lifelines but did have good handholds. I usually single-handed. I had the opposite concern, that lifelines would be a hazard. Moving up, I always had lifelines on the four boats that followed. On larger boats, there are much longer distances where there is nothing else to hold on to. On the T-Bird, I did usually wear a harness.

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

FASHIONABLY:
I think our boat looks better without the lifelines.

FUNCTIONALLY:
It is very rare that I ever need to leave the cockpit whilst under sail, so the absence of lifelines isn't a safety factor (whenever leaving the cockpit, the "rule" mandates PFD ON).

Paul

 

[Ron20324]

On my B235, as on most smaller boats, just walking on the side decks made the boat list. Add that the lifelines were below knee level, and they acted more like a lever to facilitate falling overboard. I upped the stanchions to 24 inches high and felt more secure.

 

[bffatcat]

Lifelines

Unfortunately Lifelines on boats such as alerion, rozinznte` and international one designs are
absent for 2 reasons 1. Appearance and weight. The sailors that own these boats are more
interested in how they look than personal safety. Ask em, they`re gonna say "dont need em" Ive been sailing for over 50 years and try to avoid sailing on boats without lifelines.

 

[HEINZIR]

While the safety benefits on larger boats are obvious, I think lifelines on many small boats present more of a hazard than a safety enhancement. They are usually at just the right height to flip you over the side if you lose your balance. I can appreciate the need for them on a small flush deck boat but on a conventional cabin w/side deck arrangement the side decks are very narrow on a small boat. While lifelines on the leeward side can provide a modicum of protection, who goes forward on the low side on a small boat when it's blowing like stink? You usually go forward on the high side, where the lifelines will restrict your passage; they force you to lean inward and impede your balance keeping ability.

IMHO, it is far better to have plenty of grab rails and hand holds on a small boat. A small boat is just that: small. You do not have great distances to traverse. You can make sure that a securely mounted grab rail is always within reach.

And a sturdy toe rail will do far more to keep you aboard if you are sliding to leeward on the deck than questionable lifelines at knee height. Even a 1-1/2 inch toe rail can keep you from going over. (How much of a toe hold do rock climbers need? Not much.)

I know of a number of small boat owners who have chosen to remove their lifelines and stanchions for these very reasons. The improvement in looks is just a bonus. Another factor to consider is that OEM lifeline stanchion installations on small boats often leave a lot to be desired as far as strength goes. The installation needs to be beefed up to be just as strong as that on a larger boat. An adequately strong lifeline installation on a small boat can look out of proportion.

I rarely, if ever, have to go forward on my boat in rough weather sinced I have all lines led back to the cockpit, but I feel very safe and secure when I choose to do so because of great non-skid, adequate hand rails, and sturdy toe rails.

 

[kloudie1]

Lifelines, Yes

They are great for safety. They keep errant sails aboard most of the time. Real racing boats have them.

 

[Tim R.]

They are great for safety. They keep errant sails aboard most of the time. Real racing boats have them.

That is because they are required for racing off shore in most rulebooks.

 

[druid]

Lifelines all the way. And kept in good shape, because I use them for jacklines as well. Paul, all that PFD's gonna do is save you from drowning so you'll die of hypothermia instead. What you need is a HARNESS, hitched to a jackline that can be a lifeline if it's well maintained.

druid

 

[HEINZIR]

The definition of a "small boat" will vary according to your perspective. To some, anything under 45' LOA is a small boat. From the point of view of those of us at the smaller end of the size range a "small" boat is anything under 25 feet. To us, anything over 25 feet is a "big boat."
So, to clarify my position:
"Big Boat" (over 25') lifelines = YES
"small boat" (under 25') lifelines = not so much

 

[48dodge]

With all the work I'm having to do on my 22' boat, I now consider it a "big boat". And lifelines are going back on it although they're a few inches taller than the originals. I think they're right at 24".

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Most of the boats I see without lifelines are racers. My impression, without having asked directly, is that most racing skippers who remove the lifelines and stanchions are thinking about sail shape with deck-sweeping or semi-deck-sweeping headsails. Personally, I'd rather have the lifelines. Toe rails alone are not enough.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Stu Jackson]

Lifelines: another "urban myth"

We might all take a moment to consider recognizing the actual "strength" of recreational production boat lifelines. I would no more trust those puppies to hold anything on board than I would a sky hook or a perpetual motion machine.

Even if the rigging is new wire or the newer high tech lines, the weak point is the stanchions and their bases.

The only use I make of our lifelines is going forward by holding the top one by sliding my hand loosely around and along it, more as a guide than something really solid. There is a just very short area between our forward lowers and the aft end of the bow pulpit that is essentially "no man's land" and I find them helpful, but I wouldn't say "dependable" for weight bearing support.

I'm sure many of you have beefed up the stanchion bases and maybe even the stanchions themselves. I haven't, but at least I know what I have, and its limitations and uses. We use jacklines: flat webbing bowline to the forward cleat and normal over and under to the aft cleat.

 

[CharlieCobra]

I redid the stanchion bases on Oh Joy and they will keep ya on the boat, provided you don't get kneecapped. I've seen lifelines keep a sailor on the foredeck of a C-38 out of the water until I could yank him back so yes, they do work.

 

[tsmwebb]

Lifelines all the way. And kept in good shape, because I use them for jacklines as well.

Generally lifelines aren't ideal jack lines. You have to clip and unclip at every stanchion and even with a very short tether there is the possibility of going over the side while clipped in. A situation that usually requires competent assistance to remedy. I use flat nylon jacklines, with a twist to keep them from slapping, rigged as near the centerline as is practical.

--Tom.

 

[sailingdog]

my boat doesn't have them on the amas, but the amas have a foot high bulwark on the outboard side....so they really aren't needed.

 

[druid]

Generally lifelines aren't ideal jack lines. You have to clip and unclip at every stanchion and even with a very short tether there is the possibility of going over the side while clipped in. A situation that usually requires competent assistance to remedy. I use flat nylon jacklines, with a twist to keep them from slapping, rigged as near the centerline as is practical.

--Tom.

On a 42-footer I'd agree On my little 28, there's only 2 stanchions between the cockpit and the mast (and once I get to the mast, I clip in there). And I use the windward line - falling over on the windward side is VERY unlikely, so I'm pretty safe (and I'm pretty sure I'd be able to scramble back on board if my life depended on it...). There's simply not room to run a separate jackline on a small boat (oh, and btw: ISAF Offshore Regs require jacklines to be 3/16" SS - just sayin... )

 

[tsmwebb]

(oh, and btw: ISAF Offshore Regs require jacklines to be 3/16" SS - just sayin... )

or webbing of equivalent strength.

From the current ISAF regs at www.sailing.org:

iv 20kN (2,040 kgf or 4,500 lbf) min breaking strain
webbing is recommended;

Webbing is less of a stepping hazard, IMO.

--Tom.