Liability Issue

Joe · Mar 6, 2018

How can they "total" your boat? You are the injured party... and the compensation is your choice. They may offer you a cash settlement and let you tend to your own repairs... or they may offer to pay directly based on estimates.... Why don't you call YOUR insurance company and get their view because if your boat is damaged they would want to know about it anyway......

Will Gilmore · Mar 7, 2018

thetone said:
I don't have physical damage coverage.

That's not Joe's point. Your insurance company will know what is standard and advise you. Never let them total your boat and take possession of it, if it is anything like a car.
My daughter scraped the side of her car across all four side panels and our insurance company totaled the car. We bought it back from them for $500 and it came back with a salvage title. We had to take it to the state to get a salvage inspection, in order to get a rebuild title, so we could register the car again. The inspector failed the inspection because we hadn't repaired the damages listed on the insurance claim to its original state. The idea is to prevent fraud whereby we could conceivably reclaim damages we had already been paid for. The issue, as I see it, is, we could have bought the car from anyone, with the dents in it and had it insured as a used and dented car. Buying it back from the insurance company shouldn't make a difference. They are asking the state to do their job by having taxpayers pay to inspect the cars they insure instead of inspecting their client's cars themselves.
I can't afford to fix my daughter's car any more than the insurance company was willing to do it. Now I have to junk it and find a used and dented car that is in worse condition than the current one and pay someone four to eight times the price.

-Will (Dragonfly)

dlochner · Mar 7, 2018

Congratulations. Persistance pays off.

See how much they offer you. After last summer's hurricanes, insurance companies own a lot of damaged boats, I'm pretty sure they don't another one. If they do want to total the boat and take ownership of it, see if you can buy it back. This works for you especially if the payoff amount is more than what you paid for the boat.

capta · Mar 7, 2018

If you take possession of a boat that has been written off by an insurance company as a total loss, you will most likely not ever be able to get it insured again, even after extensive repairs. That means no marinas, no haul outs in boat yards, etc.
It is a fool's errand to buy a hurricane damaged boat and expect to come out ahead, when the insurance companies have determined that a boat is not worth repairing.

Will Gilmore · Mar 7, 2018

capta said:
you will most likely not ever be able to get it insured again, even after extensive repairs. That means no marinas, no haul outs in boat yards, etc.

Maybe, but my understanding is that you would still be able to get liability coverage. That should satisfy any marina concerns. Boatyards, that may be different, because if you can't pay to take care of the damages to your own boat, they get stuck with a derelict and have to figure out how to get rid of it.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Will Gilmore · Mar 7, 2018

dlochner said:
If they do want to total the boat and take ownership of it, see if you can buy it back. This works for you especially if the payoff amount is more than what you paid for the boat.

See if you can find out where they auction the boats they take possession of and buy it back at the auction, if you can. Then all the title issues would have been taken care of in order to resell it. I had an Audi totaled and the new owner bought it at auction for a fraction of what the insurance company paid me to settle. The dents were taken out already and it didn't come to him with a salvage title. You might even see a boat you like better.

-Will (Dragonfly)

MitchM · Mar 7, 2018

note that the OP's situation is far different from your own insurance company dealing on your claim for your own car. this is a third party liability situation not the OP's own insurance co. so OP should 1/ go on a site and figure out what your boat is realistically worth. 2/ see what it would realistically cost to repair the damage (with depreciation if items like old bikinis or dodgers were included.) 3/ see what his insurance co. is offering. if it would cost $40,000 to repair a $2000 30 year old catalina 25, they will offer you $2000 not $40,000. but remember their adjusters are paid to low ball and pay the least amount possible. if you have a realistic repair estimate that says $5000 to repair, (vs their offer of $2000 to total ) you can contemplate suing both the owner and insurance co. in small claims court (where you don't need a lawyer ) to get them to pay your $5000 estimate AND loss of use, out of pocket preservation cots like buying a tarp to prevent further damage, etc. . and remember, the insurance co. will have to drop $2K on hiring its own lawyer...

good luck.

FastOlson · Mar 7, 2018

I would call my insurer immediately if not sooner.
I have an "Agreed On" value sufficient to replace my boat. And that reflects a replacement vessel with all the upgrades and maintenance that I do and have done over the years. (I believe that "cheap" insurance is never inexpensive in the long run.)
YMMV.

Kings Gambit · Mar 7, 2018

If skilled labor is involved in the fixing of just about anything wrecked that is old and highly depreciated in value, its cost could certainly exceed the value of the thing wrecked. Totaling, therefore, would be, and often is, the cheapest way out for an insurer. That does not mean it's the cheapest way out for the owner whose boat was so severely damaged, if s/he wishes to still have a boat, etc. I don't think an insurer can force you to take any "settlement" if liable. However, in the end, you get what you get and the ultimate remedy is court, if dissatisfied.

Ron20324 · Mar 7, 2018

Even without marine insurance you should be able to get an umbrella policy that covers car/home/boat to various degrees. I have a Geico that is a million bucks, cost maybe 200 a year.

capta · Mar 7, 2018

Will Gilmore said:
Maybe, but my understanding is that you would still be able to get liability coverage. That should satisfy any marina concerns. Boatyards, that may be different, because if you can't pay to take care of the damages to your own boat, they get stuck with a derelict and have to figure out how to get rid of it.

-Will (Dragonfly)

If the other party's insurance company pays out a total loss, they own the boat from that point forward. They will take the hull number and put it in their computer system (which all companies have access to) and it will most likely be uninsurable again by any company. Even liability is getting hard to get on older boats at a reasonable cost, especially for cruisers.

Roland5048 · Mar 7, 2018

MitchM said:
2/ see what it would realistically cost to repair the damage (with depreciation if items like old bikinis or dodgers were included.)

Hmmm. Old bikinis are depreciable? Need to run this by Boat Babe.

Pirate Dave · Mar 8, 2018

I know of a guy that was insured with Boat US. The totaled his boat out. He got $42,000. He bought the same boat back from them for $1,000 and did the repairs for under $5,000. The boat is now currently insured with Boat US once again, so the above chat talking about HIN numbers being flagged and never getting insurance is just that, idle chat

shemandr · Mar 8, 2018

Ron20324 said:
Even without marine insurance you should be able to get an umbrella policy that covers car/home/boat to various degrees. I have a Geico that is a million bucks, cost maybe 200 a year.

This doesn't always work. My umbrella company unceremoniously dropped me when they found out I had a 1970's runabout. They didn't want to know anything about it. I had homeowner's policy and insurance for the boat. No matter. Boom - you're out. This is a well known company any of you would recognize from their advertising.

dlochner · Mar 8, 2018

shemandr said:
This doesn't always work. My umbrella company unceremoniously dropped me when they found out I had a 1970's runabout. They didn't want to know anything about it. I had homeowner's policy and insurance for the boat. No matter. Boom - you're out. This is a well known company any of you would recognize from their advertising.

My company would only issue an umbrella policy if everything I owned was insured by them. I wasn't particularly impressed with their yacht insurance so I was not eligible for the umbrella policy.

MitchM · Mar 8, 2018

it's worth having an agreed value policy . if your boat is totaled they pay agreed value. then your insurance company goes a after the miscreant who caused your boat to be totaled. big insurance companies have lawyers on retainer to fight about this stuff, thus saving you a lot of aggravation...