Looking for recommendations for replacing port panels on an O'Day 322. Are these custom only? Are they available anymore? Are they flat enough to be cut from a lexan panel?
Lexan port panels
- Thread starter NautiBuoy
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They are available thru D & R. Follow Rudy's instructions very carefully. Especially, use only the caulk he recommends. Dow Corning 375 I think.
Pat Coulter
Pat,
I have a question about the number of the sealant. Recently we had a good discussion of sealants thanks to input by moderator Maine Sail. The product mentioned was a dow 795 as a port sealant.
Your number Dow 375 brought me this information:
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3258.pdf
This is out of my league. What is the recommended sealant's number?
Ed K
26
I have a question about the number of the sealant. Recently we had a good discussion of sealants thanks to input by moderator Maine Sail. The product mentioned was a dow 795 as a port sealant.
Your number Dow 375 brought me this information:
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3258.pdf
This is out of my league. What is the recommended sealant's number?
Ed K
26
:cussing:
ahhhhgggghhhhaaaahhhhggggg!!! That's what kills me about sealants. So much conflicting information... i am in the process of resealing just about everything on my boat but my wallet. i have read and questioned just about every book, read every post and asked everyone I know, including the custodian at work! In MainSailors article for installing NFM ports, he used butyl and 3m 101. Rudy says use something else. Ed K is using buty this year on his forward hatch..Everyone has used everthing and it all seems to leak from the start or never had a leak in 30 years....ahhhhggghhhhhhhaahhhhggggg (that was supposed to sound like "the scream")
I feel your pain. For metal hardware, like cleats, gudgeons, stanchion rails, and gunwale moldings, you want to use a good Polysulfide caulking like BoatLife Boat Caulking, or 3-M brand. For plastic which includes hatches and port lights, they recommend not using polysulfides because it will eat out the plastic. They recommend something like silicone, but silicon really doesn't adhere to anything after a while and it's no better than a rubber gasket. So this is where this Dow Corning 795 comes in. It has a combination of a silicone and other combinations that makes it very friendly to plastics, yet it will adhere like a polysulfide. When I did my port lights many years ago, I used silicone and it's been good all these years. So if you used silicone, that's OK. Let it go. On the other hand---(four thumbs and a finger) , if you used a polysulfided, remove it and get the DC 795. I still have a tube of that stuff down my cellar that I bought off Rudy last year to seal my hatch. I was thinking of removing my port lights this year and using the DC 795 but do you know what? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's being held on with silicone, and it ain't leaking. So the heck with it. I've said this before but it probably deserves repeating so that you and others do not fall into the same trap that I did years ago; Be careful of hull and deck cleaners that have Oxalic Acid in it. It will eat out caulking. You know, these helpful hint books that tell you to use a product like Zud Cleanser with OA in it because it will clean the stains out of fiberglass. It will do that, but what they don't tell you is that it will eat the caulking right out of your gunwale moldings and your boat will leak like a sieve. Been there, done that. A word to the wise, is sufficient. I agree with you though. Caulking is expensive, but if you do it right, and wash your boat with good ole' soap and water, it will will last 10 or more years. The best of luck!:cussing:
ahhhhgggghhhhaaaahhhhggggg!!! That's what kills me about sealants. So much conflicting information... i am in the process of resealing just about everything on my boat but my wallet. i have read and questioned just about every book, read every post and asked everyone I know, including the custodian at work! In MainSailors article for installing NFM ports, he used butyl and 3m 101. Rudy says use something else. Ed K is using buty this year on his forward hatch..Everyone has used everthing and it all seems to leak from the start or never had a leak in 30 years....ahhhhggghhhhhhhaahhhhggggg (that was supposed to sound like "the scream")
Joe
Keith,
Joe's post is fine, unless the previous owner used silicone. Reread Maine Sail's posts. There is apparently a problem if silicone was ever used. Silicone is like Teflon, slippery. And causes the next guy problems.
On an old boat you just do not know what the previous guy used. There lies the problem.
If you reread Joe's post, you just do not use the same sealant for every job. I know an experienced boat yard owner who solved his leaking rub rail by epoxying over the whole thing then glueing on a rubber bumper.
Now Dow Corning has written a special PDF just for you explaining your options:
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3258.pdf
Humm...
Ed K
26
Joe's post is fine, unless the previous owner used silicone. Reread Maine Sail's posts. There is apparently a problem if silicone was ever used. Silicone is like Teflon, slippery. And causes the next guy problems.
On an old boat you just do not know what the previous guy used. There lies the problem.
If you reread Joe's post, you just do not use the same sealant for every job. I know an experienced boat yard owner who solved his leaking rub rail by epoxying over the whole thing then glueing on a rubber bumper.
Now Dow Corning has written a special PDF just for you explaining your options:
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3258.pdf
Humm...
Ed K
26
Joe of SV "Trinkka"
Joe said, "I've been working on my boat like a Son-of-a-Gun, and boy am I tired. Ahoy!"
Me too. I live about an hour away from my boat.
It may go back into water today...
I did not do all that I wanted to, I just need to
~~~~ _/) ~~~~~
Ed K
26
Joe said, "I've been working on my boat like a Son-of-a-Gun, and boy am I tired. Ahoy!"
Me too. I live about an hour away from my boat.
It may go back into water today...
I did not do all that I wanted to, I just need to
~~~~ _/) ~~~~~
Ed K
26
thanks joe, boy, sealent discussions are like wine discussion (or beer), there are alot of different styles, but only a few basic types, and everyone has varying opinions and experiences.
I decided to use a propriety silicon that has a little polyurethane that i know you have heard of, life seal. I decided to use that on the plastic ring that goes around the port, and i will use butyl tape to seat the spigot, (am i using the right nomenclature?)
i came up with that by reading main sailor's article on seating his nfm ports, which are of the same basic type as mine, but of course his are the cool and high dollar stainless steel.
i wonder if i could sneak an order for those things by my wife..........nah, probably not
keith
I decided to use a propriety silicon that has a little polyurethane that i know you have heard of, life seal. I decided to use that on the plastic ring that goes around the port, and i will use butyl tape to seat the spigot, (am i using the right nomenclature?)
i came up with that by reading main sailor's article on seating his nfm ports, which are of the same basic type as mine, but of course his are the cool and high dollar stainless steel.
i wonder if i could sneak an order for those things by my wife..........nah, probably not
keith
Hey Keith,
I'm like you, I'm really not up with all of these products with these fancy names with chemical compositions that I can't even pronounce. I have a tendency to keep it simple and not tax my brain for fear that I might hurt myself.
One of my best pals passed away two years ago of Cancer and I inherited all of his boat books---all 125 of them. His wife was going to throw them them out, and we're talking books like "This Old Boat", four or five books by Don Casey, and Nathanael Bowditch to name a few. So when I really need to know something, I've been referring to some of these books. I just relocated two deck pad eyes that I use for mast raising with pivot bridles and stabilizer stays. I used 3-M polysulfide 5200 caulking. I think it's polysulfide. It's not silicone. Anyway, I just stepped in the stuff and tracked it on my deck. So I know one thing about this stuff. It's messy! Now I have to fill in four bolt holes with epoxy. The best way to deal with caulking is to use that blue masking tape, and mask around the hardware that your installing. Apply the caulk, snug the bolts and let it sit a couple of days and come back and tighten it more without letting the bolts turn . It helps if you can try not to step in the stuff and track it all over your deck like I just did. Joe
Attachments
Joe,
At some point you have to document that new mast raising system you have designed. Mine doesn't work too well (I bent the base plate when the mast twisted first time around) so I need to refine it. I'm considering some simply fixes that may do the trick without using a ginpole, but ultimately I think I need something that doesn't involve my back so much. These pictures look interesting.
By the way, I don't need instructions as to how to get sticky stuff all over the deck or inside the cabin. I have already mastered that skill.
Dave
O'Day 222
At some point you have to document that new mast raising system you have designed. Mine doesn't work too well (I bent the base plate when the mast twisted first time around) so I need to refine it. I'm considering some simply fixes that may do the trick without using a ginpole, but ultimately I think I need something that doesn't involve my back so much. These pictures look interesting.
By the way, I don't need instructions as to how to get sticky stuff all over the deck or inside the cabin. I have already mastered that skill.
Dave
O'Day 222
Oh, Joe
Hey Keith,
"His wife was going to throw them them out, and we're talking books like "This Old Boat", four or five books by Don Casey, and Nathanael Bowditch to name a few. " I should be so lucky. But then you are near the ancient heart of American Mariners.
"I used 3-M polysulfide 5200 caulking. I think it's polysulfide. It's not silicone. Anyway, I just stepped in the stuff and tracked it on my deck. So I know one thing about this stuff. It's messy! Joe"
5200 is one of the oldest used in sailboats and still used by many manufacturers. There is an important issue. Once you use it on fiberglass, it is permanent. If you ever have another issue at that spot, you damage the underlying FRP getting it off. It is a major PITA.
If that spot develops problems, it is a major project whereas those labeled removeable, i.e., 4000 or 4200 and others, can be more easily removed for fixing what ever the issue is.
Tell us in a couple of weeks how the spots that you tracked around look. Then I will tell you about a product that is hard to come by, but softens the culprit. And it is not the stuff sold at WM.
Ed K
O'Day 26 as featured in 'Good Old Boat' of May June 2009...
Hey Keith,
"His wife was going to throw them them out, and we're talking books like "This Old Boat", four or five books by Don Casey, and Nathanael Bowditch to name a few. " I should be so lucky. But then you are near the ancient heart of American Mariners.
"I used 3-M polysulfide 5200 caulking. I think it's polysulfide. It's not silicone. Anyway, I just stepped in the stuff and tracked it on my deck. So I know one thing about this stuff. It's messy! Joe"
5200 is one of the oldest used in sailboats and still used by many manufacturers. There is an important issue. Once you use it on fiberglass, it is permanent. If you ever have another issue at that spot, you damage the underlying FRP getting it off. It is a major PITA.
If that spot develops problems, it is a major project whereas those labeled removeable, i.e., 4000 or 4200 and others, can be more easily removed for fixing what ever the issue is.
Tell us in a couple of weeks how the spots that you tracked around look. Then I will tell you about a product that is hard to come by, but softens the culprit. And it is not the stuff sold at WM.
Ed K
O'Day 26 as featured in 'Good Old Boat' of May June 2009...
Hi Ed,
That's a good point well taken. Actually, I removed those track marks with a rag and Acetone while it was still wet. It's true that 3-M 5200 is a powerful strong adhesive caulking after it sets up, but metal hardware can be removed with a heated blade of a putty knife. Luthiers have been using this technique for years in removing the necks of guitars. It will work on most hide glues and it works even easier with caulking. Last year I bought a used Grey Marine forward hatch off Rudy that had a fine crack in the Plexiglas lens, but the rest of the hatch had some parts that were in better shape than my old hatch. I used a heated putty knife plus a long thin bladed knife heated up, to remove my old hatch on a cold October evening. I was able to remove it and remove both lens from the hatches. My old hatch had a Lexan lens that I had installed years ago and I wanted to use that lens because of it's strength and good condition. So I was able to make one good hatch out of the two. I used Dow Corning 795 caulking to seal this hatch. So far, no leaks.
Joe
Attachments
Just checked a tube of Lifeseal and it says it's safe for plastics. Specifies Lexan, ABS, and a few others. I have a couple tubes of white, but I guess I'll pick up a tube of black now.
From their site
A unique combination of marine silicone and polyurethane, formulated especially for fiberglass. Life Seal® offers a fast-curing, low odor, high adhesion, non-sagging, non-corrosive, non-yellowing formula. It provides a durable permanent watertight seal for joints subject to structural movement. May be used above or below the waterline. Use for sealing decks to hulls, thru-hull fittings, vinyl ports, sealing/glazing windshields and bedding marine hardware. Will adhere to metal, glass, wood, Lexan®, ABS® and certain other materials. Can be removed without damaging gel-coat. Not recommended for ferro cement hulls, impregnated wood or oil-soaked materials. Cures in presence of water. Mildew resistant and acid-free. Custom colors available.
From their site
A unique combination of marine silicone and polyurethane, formulated especially for fiberglass. Life Seal® offers a fast-curing, low odor, high adhesion, non-sagging, non-corrosive, non-yellowing formula. It provides a durable permanent watertight seal for joints subject to structural movement. May be used above or below the waterline. Use for sealing decks to hulls, thru-hull fittings, vinyl ports, sealing/glazing windshields and bedding marine hardware. Will adhere to metal, glass, wood, Lexan®, ABS® and certain other materials. Can be removed without damaging gel-coat. Not recommended for ferro cement hulls, impregnated wood or oil-soaked materials. Cures in presence of water. Mildew resistant and acid-free. Custom colors available.
Sealants
Be careful with that wording above! It says "Will adhere to metal, glass, wood, Lexan®, ABS® and certain other materials." ! Sure many products will "adhere" to Lexan or ABS but will it damage it? Will it eventually leach the plasticzers from it and make it prematurely brittle? What it does not say is things like "safe for use on Acrylic" or "Safe for use on polycarbonate/Lexan".. Adhesion is only half the battle with Acrylic or Lexan.
I'd find some Dow 795 if I were you and you're sealing polycarbonate or acrylic dead lights. It will be CHEAPER and will work better for sealing Acrylic or Lexan ports than just about any product on the market. I would strongly advise the use of Acrylic over Lexan/Polycarbonate though..
As for my NFM port lights, discussed earlier, they are stainless steel so they can be bedded with a variety of products seeing as compatibility is not an issue. They are also mechanically fastened. I like butyl and polysulfides but NOT for Acrylic or Lexan..
Acrylic dead lights need a product specifically designed for that application and Dow 795 is the preferred structural Silicone for the task. If you have plastic Beckson ports Dow 795 also works very well and Beckson specifically advises against polysulfides or polyurethanes..
Be careful with that wording above! It says "Will adhere to metal, glass, wood, Lexan®, ABS® and certain other materials." ! Sure many products will "adhere" to Lexan or ABS but will it damage it? Will it eventually leach the plasticzers from it and make it prematurely brittle? What it does not say is things like "safe for use on Acrylic" or "Safe for use on polycarbonate/Lexan".. Adhesion is only half the battle with Acrylic or Lexan.
I'd find some Dow 795 if I were you and you're sealing polycarbonate or acrylic dead lights. It will be CHEAPER and will work better for sealing Acrylic or Lexan ports than just about any product on the market. I would strongly advise the use of Acrylic over Lexan/Polycarbonate though..
As for my NFM port lights, discussed earlier, they are stainless steel so they can be bedded with a variety of products seeing as compatibility is not an issue. They are also mechanically fastened. I like butyl and polysulfides but NOT for Acrylic or Lexan..
Acrylic dead lights need a product specifically designed for that application and Dow 795 is the preferred structural Silicone for the task. If you have plastic Beckson ports Dow 795 also works very well and Beckson specifically advises against polysulfides or polyurethanes..
Maine Sail
What about the white "plastic" ports on my oday. can i use life seal, or do i need to use the dow 795 as above. I have already bought the life seal, but of course don't want to use it if it is gonna mess up the plastic.
I have everything off my boat but the rub rail and the plexiglass fixed ports. I am filling in the screw/bolt holes with thickened epoxy, and want to put everything back on correctly.
thanks
keith
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