Lets talk tongue weight...

[rgranger]

I had an interesting experience this week. I towed my Hunter 26 a total of 465 miles from Montgomery Al to Charleston. I have never had any trouble with trailering this boat but on this trip the trailer got very squirrely when I was on a long gradual decline. It would start to sway side to side and I'd have to fight to keep it all in my lane. I started to think hard about what might have changed since the last time I trailered my boat. I came up with three things....

1) I installed a new trailer hitch receiver and was about an inch lower than the previous one.
2) The new trailer hitch receiver caused the ground clearance for my spare tire on the trailer to be lower than I was comfortable with... so at the last minute I took the spare off of the trailer and tossed it in the back of my truck... (thus taking about 70 pounds off of the trailer tongue)
3) I had a tote bin full of cleaning supplies that weighed about 60 pounds that I jammed into the very aft part of the rear berth.

4) I also remember that when I attached the trailer to the hitch, I could lift the trailer tongue without much strain (but at the time I didn't think much of it).

So at the next rest stop I shifted the tote bin from the very aft part of the boat to the very front of the V-berth. Effectively taking 60 pounds off of the rear overhang and placing it on the tongue (a difference of ~120#)

Yep! That fixed the problem.

Note to self! If you can lift the tongue without much strain, you need to add weight to the tongue or take weight off of the rear overhang.

Hope this helps someone some day.

 

[Hunter216]

Glad you didn’t have the tail wag the dog enough to put you off the road! Scary EH!

Sometimes it’s not heavy items but “windage”.

I decided to load some 20’ lengths of 4” aluminum pipe in my 4x8 utility trailer one day. They were angled from the bed of the trailer and resting on the top of the load ramp at the back so they presented an angled “spoiler” to the direction of travel.

I was pulling it with an extended GMC Yukon down the secondary road at about 60km/hr and pulled out to pass a farmer pulling a double wagon train of hay. Yukon has tons of power so it wasn’t long getting to 100km/hr and nasty stuff started happening .

I grew up towing all kinds of stuff and should have known better!

 

[Benny17441]

Getting the correct tongue weight requires certain steps. Know the weight of your trailer + load. Your tongue weight should be 10% - 12% of that total weight. Utilize a ball mount height to your hitch that allows the trailer rails to sit parallel to level ground. At that ball height you should attain the desired tongue weight; if not you need to shift the load. You can make small adjustments to the tongue weight by raising or lowering the ball with an adjustable mount. Lowering the ball raises tongue weight and rising it reduces tongue weight. If a larger adjustment is necessary then the load needs to be shifted. 60% to 65% of the trailer load needs to be ahead of the axle. That can be attained by moving stuff forward or by moving the axle back. There are cases where moving the axle back is the only alternative. After each setup take the trailer out for a spin to see how it handles. For real heavy loads the use of a Weight Distribution Hitch is recommended. We need to be able to maintain the tow vehicle handling and braking characteristics.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@Benny17441 was going in the correct direction. Move the winch stand 1-2 inches forward on the trailer should resolve the weight distribution

 

[rgranger]

@Benny17441 was going in the correct direction. Move the winch stand 1-2 inches forward on the trailer should resolve the weight distribution

I think it was a combination of a few things that I have now corrected. Lesson learned. I put the spare back on the trailer yesterday... so that will add a few pounds to the tongue and I will be mindful to shift gear forward when preparing for a haul.

 

[Garbonzo]

Lots of variables that effect the amount of tongue weight works. But less is better, IF your tow is stable. the more weight on the tongue, the less stability the vehicles have, the less, the trailer has. Find the sweet spot. Other issues are tow vehicle weight, wheel base, weight distribution of the trailer/boat etc. The initial scientific paper was in 1955, by Mr. Reese of the weight distribute device.

One big issue is that surge brakes are incompatible with weight distribution hitches.

 

[rgranger]

Lots of variables that effect the amount of tongue weight works. But less is better, IF your tow is stable. the more weight on the tongue, the less stability the vehicles have, the less, the trailer has. Find the sweet spot. Other issues are tow vehicle weight, wheel base, weight distribution of the trailer/boat etc. The initial scientific paper was in 1955, by Mr. Reese of the weight distribute device.

One big issue is that surge brakes are incompatible with weight distribution hitches.

I like my surge breaks and don't want to ever tow without them again.

 

[twistedskipper]

There are weight distributing hitch designs compatible with surge brakes, but it is true that most are not. (google it)

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@twistedskipper

can you be more specific and a brief description as to why.

 

[twistedskipper]

Did you google it, Dave?

 

[Meriachee]

Tongue weight becomes less easy to adjust as the axle count goes up. Moving the boat forward increases the load on the front axle, and decreases it on the rear, much more than increasing the tongue weight.
With three axles, moving the boat forward 4" added 100 lbs to the tongue, and almost 200 to the front axle.

 

[sesmith]

This little uhaul video says it all.

uhaul video trailer sway - Google Search

 

[Meriachee]

Did you google it, Dave?

@Crazy Dave Condon is the guy IN the video Ha ha

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Actually experienced swaying of a trailer for a Catalina 22 as the ordered surge brakes were not on trailer which I paid for. The other fellow with me about lost the load on I-95 from swaying. Contrary to what was said, to stop the swaying you have to accelerate to pull out from swaying and then brake slowly. Experience talking is more important than a video with toys. Brakes in many states vary which an owner must comply but with a fin keel or wing keel, the center of gravity is higher which is why the need for brakes

The need for 10% of the weight of boat, gear, motor and trailer on the tongue is a deterrent to swaying.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

One other thing when going down a mountain with a load, it wants to push the tow vehicle which is why to slower. Essentially trailer with a boat can sway some pushing on the ball of the hitch. Surge brakes should engage but if not, best that be checked. Rob you have brakes on the forward axle only. Suggestvlooking at them particularly pads and of course the fluid resivoiur.
They are surge brakes which would activate going down hill

 

[rgranger]

Thanks Dave
.
The brakes were definitely "hinky". I checked the fluid. It was fine. In Jan 2019, I had the trailer serviced by a professional trailer shop.

The breaks froze on me when pulling the boat up on the ramp and I had to whack them with a rubber mallet to get them to let go. They did not seem to be working at all for the first hour on the road but after a few hard breaks, they seemed to be working fine.

A good question I'd like an answer to is this....

Are there any good ways to test the breaks before you hook up the trailer?

 

[Hunter216]

Are there any good ways to test the breaks before you hook up the trailer?

I don’t know how valid a “test” it would be but you could jack up one side, spin the wheel and activate the surge.

 

[twistedskipper]

This ^^^ will at least confirm that everything is going through the right motions. I suppose it’s possible that this test could work but the actual braking forces could still be low. Not sure how to check that.

 

[LeeandRick]

A little bit about surge brakes.
Spec’ing trailer brakes: Know the uses, know the laws
NATM 2019 coverage

Per federal regs, surge brakes now are allowed for commercial/interstate use on trailers up to 12,000 pounds GVWR when towed by a vehicle weighing at least 57.14% of the trailer GVWR.

I will tow my little 19' jet boat with surge brakes (3500# all up including trailer) behind my 8000# dually Ram 3500 but have electric over hydraulic brakes on my 10000# sailboat and trailer. It's really nice to reach down and add a little trailer brake if I feel a wag. Oh, and my tongue weight is only 600#. I do use a WDH when I have the 4' extension from the main receiver hitch under the 11'6" slid in camper. For all you youngsters out there the octothorpe symbol ( # ), means pound in this case.

 

[LeeandRick]

I don’t know how valid a “test” it would be but you could jack up one side, spin the wheel and activate the surge.

Just disconnect the wiring harness from the tow vehicle (if you have a back up light solenoid in the surge brake line) and back up an incline. If you can move the trailer in reverse up an incline, you have a problem with the surge brakes.