Lets talk about DYI shroud swaging.

[Mickyfin]

Being a fairly handy guy, I view myself as an accomplished do-it-yourselfer. In addition to shrouds, I have other uses for swaged cables. Occasionally someone will say "make your own", but generally
you hear that shrouds are too dangerous to mess with.
It seems like a fairly straight forward process, so I'm wondering if you were conscientious, followed the guidelines, and took your time, if DYI shrouds are safely doable.
I'm open to all input, but am curious if people who have done it, might have a different view than those who have no experence and just say that you shouldn't do it? Any failures by those who've done it?
I'm also wondering if a bolt clamp swaging tool might be safer than lever handle swagers. Would two ferrules be any safer, or possibly weaken the connection? I'm sure some readers will think those last two questions might be enough to disqualify me.
What's everyone think?

 

[MikeHoncho]

What I’ve read is diy staged lifelines, professional swaged standing rigging. I’m pretty confident in my ability and I also would go professional unless I went with the mechanical fastener type.

 

[DougM]

I haven’t done any swaged fittings. Understandably, the proper tools are important.
I have done a Norseman type fitting on a 3/8“ forestay. Basically a no brainer if you follow the instructions, no special tools required. What I don’t know is how easy it would be to install if the wire was old and age hardened. I was working with new wire.

 

[dlochner]

The loads on a shroud can be quite high. The swage needs to be done correctly with the right tools and pressure. Failure is catastrophic, meaning the mast will fall down.

If you want to do your own use mechanical fittings like Sta-Lock. They work, however there may not be much cost savings on a smaller boat.

The proper swaging is cold roll swaging. The wire and fitting are rolled through a die. Standing rigging swaging is not simply clamping on a fitting, when done correctly the strands in the wire are cold welded together. Done correctly a swage should not show individual strands when it is cut in half.

 

[sail sfbay]

As I understand, you can secure a fitting to the end of the cable with a swage fitting or a mechanical swageless fitting. The swage fitting requires a special tool to squeeze or hammer the fitting onto the wire. The mechanical swageless fitting requires the use of some wrenches.. The latter is what I used to install new lifelines myself and they are plenty strong for that service. However, for shrouds, I would have my local or on-line rigger make them up with a swage fitting since I do not have access to a swage tool. You might find these links helpful:

Swageless Mechanical Fittings or Swage Terminals… – The Rigging Company
Making Stays / Shrouds for a sailboat mast (pdracer.com)
Sailboat Standing Rigging (usedboatequipment.com)
How to swage a sailboat shroud: (2) how to swage a sailboat shroud? - Bing video

 

[Ward H]

The mechanical swageless fitting requires the use of some wrenches.. The latter is what I used to install new lifelines myself and they are plenty strong for that service.

@sail sfbay What mechanical fittings did you use for your lifelines?
I'm considering the Suncor Stainless Quick Connect fittings for the lifelines on my boat.

 

[Mickyfin]

I haven’t done any swaged fittings. Understandably, the proper tools are important.
I have done a Norseman type fitting on a 3/8“ forestay. Basically a no brainer if you follow the instructions, no special tools required. What I don’t know is how easy it would be to install if the wire was old and age hardened. I was working with new wire.

Good point about old wire. Thanks.

 

[Mickyfin]

The loads on a shroud can be quite high. The swage needs to be done correctly with the right tools and pressure. Failure is catastrophic, meaning the mast will fall down.

If you want to do your own use mechanical fittings like Sta-Lock. They work, however there may not be much cost savings on a smaller boat.

The proper swaging is cold roll swaging. The wire and fitting are rolled through a die. Standing rigging swaging is not simply clamping on a fitting, when done correctly the strands in the wire are cold welded together. Done correctly a swage should not show individual strands when it is cut in half.

I wonder if a typical(non factory setting) rigger would be doing cold roll swaging?

 

[sail sfbay]

..........What mechanical fittings did you use for your lifelines? I'm considering the Suncor Stainless Quick Connect fittings for the lifelines on my boat.

I installed the Suncor bare stainless steel lifelines on my sailboat. I purchased a Tyler Tool 3/16" diameter 20" handle part number 91535120 stainless steel wire cutter from E-Rigging for $79 or I guess you can rent one.

 

[RussC]

DIY Nico Press fittings aren't rocket science if done with a degree of patience and common sense. I've built many sets for my various boats over the years and never had a failure. I also flew hang gliders for 18 years (2000+ hours airtime) which utilize the same double nico press fittings and cable for side wires that support the full wing load. I'm still alive. I have a HIT hand crimper with 24" handles and they have been quite satisfactory for the job. do use double nico press and a thimble on each one to insure that the cable itself is the weakest link. many sailboats came with double nico press fittings from the factory over the years

 

[Mickyfin]

DIY swage fittings aren't rocket science if done with a degree of patience and common sense. I've built many sets for my various boats over the years and never had a failure. I also flew hang gliders for 18 years (2000+ hours airtime) which utilize the same double swage fittings and cable for side wires that support the full wing load. I'm still alive. I have a HIT hand swager with 24" handles and they have been quite satisfactory for the job. do use double swage and a thimble on each one to insure that the cable itself is the weakest link. many sailboats came with double swage fittings from the factory over the years. View attachment 194672

Thankyou very much. Also for going into some detail. Not to dismiss negative comments, but I was hoping to find someone out there who would be a qualified devils advocate.
I'm still open to views against the idea.

 

[shemandr]

I've used swages I made with the bolt tightening type swage tool to make a pendant to hold a mainsheet block at a desired height. No Failure. Mainsheet blocks can have some pretty high tension on them. But there are two differences between the mainsheet and standing rigging. One is the mainsheet has line which dampens shock loading. Two is that if the swage fails on the mainsheet it is a problem. If it fails on standing rigging I would call it a disaster.
Note that mostly standing rigging failures are at the end of the terminals - usually the lower.

 

[MikeHoncho]

@sail sfbay What mechanical fittings did you use for your lifelines?
I'm considering the Suncor Stainless Quick Connect fittings for the lifelines on my boat.

That’s what I used. A little expensive but really easy.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Thankyou very much. Also for going into some detail. Not to dismiss negative comments, but I was hoping to find someone out there who would be a qualified devils advocate.
I'm still open to views against the idea.

Completely understand. I also think a devils advocate would recommend a professional install being that is what they do.....

 

[PaulK]

There is a big difference between a swaged fitting and a nicopress sleeve. Russ's post, #10, shows the latter. I would not use nicopress sleeves to make shrouds except as an emergency or jury rig.

 

[dlochner]

@sail sfbay What mechanical fittings did you use for your lifelines?
I'm considering the Suncor Stainless Quick Connect fittings for the lifelines on my boat.

I thought about the DIY lifelines when I replaced mine. Looked at the cost of the fittings, the wire and my labor. Then I sent my lifelines to Rigging Only in Fairhaven, MA and had new ones made for about the same cost and less work on my part.

I wonder if a typical(non factory setting) rigger would be doing cold roll swaging?

Absolutely, any rigger worth his salt would have a cold roll swaging tool and they would know how to use it. If the fittings were no cold roll swages, I wouldn't use the rigger.

There is also a difference between a rigger who works on sailboats and those who do rigging for industrial uses. All rigging that is done for lifting and crane work is load tested and certified. DIY riggers typically don't have access to adequate load testing equipment.

Nicopress swages are fine for many uses. However, unless they can be load tested I would not use them for standing rigging.

 

[Joe]

I replaced all my lifelines with Johnson wire and fittings using steel tool designed especially for hand pressing their products. It was fairly economical... fit and finish is excellent. I used bare wire. This method is NOT recommended for standing rigging.

If you want to DIY your standing rigging, the mechanical fittings are the way to go. Hayn and Sta-lock are the most common and are used by professional riggers alike. The advantage of mechanical fittings is strength and ease of replacement. Downside is they can be more expensive. If I were cruising I'd want an assortment of fittings and wire in my tool shed to handle emergencies in remote places. Here's the sta-lock stuff.

 

[All U Get]

In my distant construction career we used cable clamps, strong but not applicable for boaters. I wouldn’t hesitate to use them for emergencies.
I’m confident with my dyneema eye splicing to make my own repairs for standing rigging that fit the environment more appropriately. But for the long term, I buy the swags already done.

 

[HEINZIR]

I seem to remember a video (possibly from Practical Sailor?) of various mechanical terminals (Norseman, Sta-lok , etc.) being load tested in a laboratory. Also tested was a conventional swage terminal. What struck me was that the other end of each wire/terminal combination under test was attached to the machine by a loop formed with Nicopress sleeves!

FWIW I re-rigged my 23’ cutter using Nicopress sleeves some 30+ years ago. It is still going strong, and I sailed her very hard. All fresh water, no salt.

It is important to note that 1 x 19 wire requires two sleeves and a thimble per connection. 7 x 19, such as used for swing keel cables, can get by with just 1.
I would not use Nicopress terminal fittings on 1x19 wire larger than 5/32” or 3/16”. 1/4” is probably the max for flexible cable.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

One guy wrote about DIY swage fittings (or whatever) was not rocket science. The tools he displayed are NOT swage tools nor are the fittings. They are Nicro Press fittings, which can be used on standing rigging and are seen on smaller boats and more inexpensive boats. Then there are crimping tools for the DIY lifeline fittings, but that again is not real swaging as often brought up in other areas of this thread. The swage fittings look the same (sort of) and are often called "Handy crimp". But they are NOT the same. Lifelines don't require fittings with the same the strength requirements. I have a ten thousand dollar hydraulic swaging machine and I cannot imagine anyone doing the same job with hand tools. There are cheaper mechanical swaging machines that are bench mounted and even some ones that do some smaller sizes. Often the mechanical ones are called "banana swaging machines" because if not done properly, they might swage the fitting on successfully, but the result will be a bent fitting (hence "banana"). So, before you start giving advice on a subject you know nothing about, better study up on it. Mechanical wire ends like Sta-Lok fittings are very popular for the DIY sailor because they can be installed without much more than a few wrenches. And, if out to sea, you can take them apart and deal with potential problems should they arise where with a swage fitting you cannot. But how often does that happen? It happens most with furlers and so it makes sense more so in those situations.