Lets see your wiring

[Alctel]

So my Hunter 36 has handsdown an awful wiring job. The back of the panel opens out under the starboard lazarette with no water-proofing on the back. The battery charger is located even further back! And the condenser is there as well, and rusted to hell... nothing is labelled of course

Anyone want to post their setup? And any advice where to start?

 

[Jim Legere]

You wiring looks pretty much like most of our Cherubini Hunters before renovation - a combination of '57 Chevy dashboard and every previous owner's add-ons and kludges.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with ABYC recommended practice, an excerpt of which you can download here. You can replace or repair all that rat's nest in the pictures, but you probably won't be able to renew the wires that run to the various lights, pumps, etc. throughout the boat since that wiring was installed prior to bonding in the headliner and floor pan. It probably doesn't need replacing, just cleaning up and re-terminating. I don't know how similar the H36 is to the H37C but there are show n' tell articles on rewiring the panel by myself, Jose Guidera, and Maturin II in the H37C archives.

Buy quality marine wire and components from reputable manufacturers like Blue Seas and invest in some professional-grade tools such as a wire stripper and a crimper. All this can be purchased online at the chandlery here at SailboatOwners.com, so support the site when you can!

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Alctel]

Thanks!

 

[rardiH36]

Hello Alctel:

From everything that I have seen/read on the various SBO forums, and also my home copy of Don Casey's sailboat electrics book (see below for more info on this publication), Jim is spot on.

The back of my electrical panel looked much the same as yours when I bought my boat. But it did have a plastic back cover that had the appearance of being OEM. It wasn't in the best of shape, but I did manage to salvage it for continued use. The cover doesn't really need to be water-proof since the back of the panel is in a location that isn't typically subject to rain/seawater exposure. (And if either variety does get to our boats' back panel location, we have some really serious problems that will have taken out a lot more than our panels' ability to function!) You can make your own cover. Or take the measurements and head off to a big box store and see if you can find a storage box for instance that would fit over with lots of room to stay away from the connections. Use your imagination.

My "rats nest" is improved from what it looked like when I bought the boat. But compared to the elegant/precise work that I have often seen posted, I still have a rats nest...

... But it is now a much safer rats next. What I did was mark each wire, then I detached them from the copper bus bars on the back of the panel. With 600 grit sandpaper, I restored the surface of the bus bars to clean copper appearance. Then I cut off each wire's terminal. I removed about 3/8" of the insulation from the wire. Our boats were built before the ABYC began to specify only marine grade tinned copper wire. Ours are marine grade, but non-tinned. My boat has spent its life in a generally low humidity dry location. Because the condition of the metal strands remained good, I simply polished up the newly exposed surface of the wires and crimped on new terminals. I did this only for the low amp draw and short distance circuits. For the wiring to my bilge pumps, however I did replace with new marine grade wire.

My real exception however was for the heavy gauge high amp draw wiring wire from/to the batteries, to/from the A/B/Both switch, and to/from the panel and the engine starter. And the corresponding negative heavy gauge wires between the battery and the engine block and the panel. I found most of these original wires to be black tarnished underneath the terminals and also further up within the wire insulation. These wires then were replaced. (While on the subject of battery wiring, fusing at the positive battery terminal (or really close to it) is critical. Do a search on SBO for Maine Sail's tutorial on the subject.)

A couple of other quick things come to mind.

- My AC outlets were not GFIC protected. I replaced the first outlet in each of the port and starboard AC circuits with a GFIC outlet. When I did so, I was pleasantly surprised that the condition of the AC wires in/out of the first outlet were in excellent condition. This matches Jim's observation that the factory installed wiring between the deck and lining might be left in place.

- Regarding the interior cabin lights. My OEM fixtures looked dirty and yellow when I bought my boat. But before replacing, I decided to remove the clear plastic refracting lenses and bring them home for a deep cleaning. I used "Industrial Purple", a strong water-based de-greaser available in the janitorial supply section of Home Depot. (This stuff has lots of uses on a boat and home and car.) That and a tooth brush to get into all the micro recesses did retore the lenses to virtually new appearance. Big saving compared to replacing all of the fixtures with something new. Also on the cabin lights, consider replacing the incandescent bulbs with LED's. You can find exact fit replacements here on SBO. Doing the conversion serves two purposes. 1) LED's suck a fraction of the current draw. I think that I calculated that I can now switch on virtually every interior cabin light and use not much more amps than turning on just one of the old incandescent version. And 2), if the wiring might be a bit suspect, the lower current draw of LED bulbs is much less likely to cause wire overheating. Also when you have the lenses off, check the condition of the wiring (mine looked fine). And also at the switch contact points and at the bulb fittings, clean off any built up oxidation with some 400-600 sand paper.)

Regarding my reference to Don Casey's electrics book, it is one of six of his mini books that have been compiled into the "Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual" There are other similar publications, but I have found this to be the best for me. It's the equivalent of a bible for sailboat owners. The internet is great, but finding all the detail in one comprehensive well written location can be tricky. Here is the link to Amazon's offering of the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Complete-Illustrated-Sailboat-Maintenance/dp/0071462848

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Wiring considerations

Alctel, that looks like my panel now. No smallish sailboat has a commodious electrical bay. The point is: how is the maintenance? Consider:

1. How far can you tug a wire out of place? --enough to get a set of clippers and a heat gun to replace a connection? Or do all the little wire clamps pull everything too tightly out of the way?

2. Is everything marked? If you took off more than 3 or 4 connections, would you be pulling out your hair over figuring where they all went back?

3. Does the access panel open easily, stay open in a reasonable place, and allow you room to work in there? Or, after pulling out 6 or 8 wood screws, are you constantly holding it out of your way with one elbow and the side of your face, against the tensile strength of 15 pieces of wire, whilst you're probing in 6 cubic inches of space with a solder gun and the needlenose?

4. Are the wires color-coded, or are they all the same colors (red and black? --ugh) making it impossible to keep it all straight before your eyes go bleary? All 12vdc grounds should be yellow-- and it doesn't matter where they tie together, so long as they're all marked-- and hots should be red. Again, keeping them separate from any runs of 115vac is crucial, since old-school specs use black for 12vdc ground but also for 115vac hot. If they're not labeled, stand by for a fireworks show when you start cutting.

5. Is there any room in the conduits to pull even 2 or 3 more pieces of wire? I used flexible 'split-loom' conduit because, almost always, there is room to stuff in one more run or else the loom can be upsized. So I don't apologize for using what looks like too-large loom. It's all tucked up under the deck anyway.

6. Running wire through the bilge, or even under bunktops, is a no-no. It's a devil for access and a threat to integrity. All mine is run under the deck flange. Sitting on a bunk I can get to all of it.

I pulled all the wiring out of this 1974 boat and ran all new stuff (one piece I recently tried to reuse kept breaking off clean inside the casing). In fact I jammed so much wiring into my little boat that most people (including my late father) would consider it insane. But about 90 percent of it is vital; the rest is desired options (such as cabin footlights and switches to change between red and white cabin lights, and between masthead- and pulpit-mounted running lights). And it's well marked, sensibly led, and connected visibly and accessibly. So I really shouldn't defend it. If I'd kept the original 4 circuits the factory had given the boat, I'd have had a much worse problem.

The pics I put in are old-- much has been done since this. Diana's new electrical panel is the shelf above the quarter berth. About 1/3 of the space is devoted to the 115vac (a main breaker and one for the charger). It is separated by a small bulkhead from the 12vdc, which is vital (these two should never share the same spaces). A piece of PVC acts as a conduit through the 115vac through which most of the 12vdc comes. There are 12 breakers, the bilge-pump switch, rotary switches and the voltmeter (which works on momentary push-buttons for three batteries) and the fuel gauge. There is a piece of PVC going vertically down from the panel to the bunk top (just past the edge of an adequately-wide cushion). Under the bunk is the battery switch and the runs to the batteries. That's all that's below that level.

I would take a newer pic but it looks sort of like this again because I took off the hinged panel for painting. The panel with the breakers in it swings down and stays level, like a workbench, by a length of cord. The breakers are all labeled upside-down in back because you'll see them right-side up when the panel is open. I use a letter code for the circuits; runs of wire are labeled at all connections (such as at the top of the spar, both sides of the connection block, and at the circuit panel).

The other pic is of the traditional Cherubini Boat-style 'Wire-O-Matic', which for Diana I made out of a battery box. A piece of CPVC slides out (held in with clevis pins and roll pins!) to change the reels. I consider this a vital lifesaver when running wire. Typically I keep rolls of red and yellow and pull them at the same time (duh). You can make a Hose-O-Matic too. (I'm thinking of even putting an Anchor Line-O-Matic in the lazarrette locker for the stern rode!)

* * *

 

[Alctel]

Thanks guys.

Water *shouldn't* be getting into the back of the panel, but I'm not sure how confident I am of that, esp since the engine hatch leaks like a sieve right now.

I think I will have to pull and check on all the AC plug terminal wiring - as stated in my blog, there were a lot of holes drilled into the top by the previous owner, and rain got in those and was dripping out the plug sockets, so I want to check for corrosion of those wires

As regards the questions

1) I haven't tried tugging any wires, though I am not hopeful - I accidentally pulled on the wire connecting the water pump and it gave way at the seal

2) The only thing marked is the front of the breaker panel (mostly). None of the wires are marked

3) I haven't tried removing the panel, it's on there pretty tight. If I enter through the lazzertte though I can get to the back of the panel fairly easily.

4) As far as I can tell it's a real mixture - some are the right colour, some are not.

5) I'm not sure there are even conduits, just bundles of wire bundled together with zip ties.

6) A large bundle of wire goes through the bilge. Ugh. What do you mean by the deck flange?

 

[Bill Roosa]

I've done this twice now and your situation is not dire, trust me.
I would start by identifying all the output wires and their grounds and bundling / labeling them together. Making a wiring diagram is VERY helpful at this point. The best method is to start at the batteries and make all the circuits "go in a circle". so batteries at the top, panel at the left center, appliances at the bottom and the ground returns along the right side back to the batteries. Don't try and make it match the actual physical layout in the boat. I would recommend a ground buss strategically located so all/most the appliance grounds can reach it. Then work on routing the appliance 12 volt supply to the CBs and then the supply to the panel itself. Don't forget to have an "always hot" wire / CB / buss for the bilge pump and stereo memory.

 

[rardiH36]

Alctel:

In case they help, here are pic's of my 1980 H36 breaker panel and the rear of the panel as viewed from the lazarette. Note the plastic cover that I mentioned in my prior post. Not a work of art, but the appearance is certainly nicer than the functional rats nest that is behind it.

I found it very difficult to work on the back side of the still fastened panel while squatting down on the slippery sloped floor in the lazarette. So I tweaked my wiring so the panel now "hinges" down onto the navigation desk for more comfortable access. Just takes a few seconds to remove the six bulkhead fastener screws (after laying down a sheet of cardboard to protect the desk from damage). I do recall that because of the wires being too short (as you have alluded to for your boat), I initially wasn't able to swing down the panel enough to work on it. But I discovered that only a few wires were the problem. And by loosening or removing cable clamps and ties, I could pull out enough slack so the panel could swing down to a working level on the desk.

 

[rardiH36]

6) A large bundle of wire goes through the bilge. Ugh. What do you mean by the deck flange?

Yes, on my boat too. Like for the wires to the bilge pumps and shower sump pump. But the bundle is routed high up right under the bilge hatch boards. One foot or more above the bottom of the bilge. And well above the level the bilge water should get. Any higher and the cabin floor will flood.