Let's say you sold your boat to one of your good friends.............

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
I would say it depends on the nature of your "agreement". If you truly made it clear that a condition of the sale was that you get first right of refusal and he clearly agreed to that then he kinda did you wrong. Ultimately, there is nothing to do about at this point. I would say nothing if I wanted to stay friends.
That is exactly why I am a little provoked. That indeed was the understanding. And first refusal was added to avoid this exact BS. I see nothing wrong with it. It allows giving someone a great deal without feeling like you got used if they decide to flip it for a nice profit at your expense. I reck'n it will be in writing next time......must have slipped his mind. I did not mention that to him. By the time my lip stopped bleeding from me biting it, I told him I had to go (before I said something I would regret)
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Again, just let it go. Remember, "time wounds all heels". It's his Karma. Don't make it yours, also.
I know. Who started this stinking thread anyway.................
 
May 30, 2006
300
Oday 34 Chesapeake Bay
Thanks for all your comments. This is not a friendship killer. I did not "give him money", I simply offered a good friend with a wife and 2 teenage girls a great deal on a boat for them to enjoy on Jordan Lake. I forgot to mention that I did ask him that if he ever wanted to sell it to let me know first. I would pay him what I sold it for plus any improvements. Apparently it slipped his mind when he posted it on CL. ;) I can only say that if a friend gave me a deal and I ended up basically "flipping it" a year later, I would deduct any improvement costs and split the profit......but that's just me.
Gotta chime in here. Suppose you gave him the boat and it later sunk due to a faulty thru hull. The salvage of the boat and perhaps remedial clean up cost him $$'s would you have split his cost with him?
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Thanks for all your comments. This is not a friendship killer. I did not "give him money", I simply offered a good friend with a wife and 2 teenage girls a great deal on a boat for them to enjoy on Jordan Lake. I forgot to mention that I did ask him that if he ever wanted to sell it to let me know first. I would pay him what I sold it for plus any improvements. Apparently it slipped his mind when he posted it on CL. ;) I can only say that if a friend gave me a deal and I ended up basically "flipping it" a year later, I would deduct any improvement costs and split the profit......but that's just me.
don't let him read this thread or you will surely lose that friend
 
Aug 13, 2012
13
j boat j100 alamitos bay
I feel for you. I think any generous person makes mistakes like this. I know I have (more than once). Loaning friends money was my downfall. Nevertheless, I chalk it up to my stupidity, carelessness or whatever you want to call it. Obviously, you are disappointed in your friend and are probably kicking your butt for being a "nice guy". What is worth more to you the friendship or this transaction? Of my two friends that I had problems with one I stopped seeing the other is still a good friend. It all depends on what works for you. I'm a big believer in karma, I know I have gotten breaks in life that have seemingly come out of nowhere. If I'm losing sleep over something then I take action either to correct the situation or learn to accept the situation. Good luck and God Bless for being one of the good guys!
 
Mar 23, 2009
139
Rafiki 35 North East, MD
I feel your pain. I had a Hobie H16 that I had painstakingly restored. I wasn't using it as much as it deserved so I wanted to find a new home for it. I had built the boat from a half dozen salvaged boats I essentially got for free, so I didn't feel right profiting from selling it. Instead I gave it to a friend who had admired it, with the understanding that he would let me sail it when I got the urge.

A few weeks later, we got a text message that he had left it on a beach, a storm had blown in, and the boat was reduced to a dismasted pile of fiberglass and metal debris. Seeing a picture of my beloved boat come to such grief was heartbreaking. My wife and others were quick to remind me that it was not *my* boat any more. I understand that but I was still upset. When I read your post, I realized that I would have been much more upset if he had sold the boat at a profit instead of letting it be wrecked. Which is completely irrational because either way the boat would be gone-- and if he had sold it, one of us would at least have gotten something for it.

All of which is to say that we are not always rational in our dealings when it comes to boats or friends. I can't fault you for selling the boat at a discount to a friend or for being upset that he sold it at a profit afterward. I would have done the same thing and felt the same way. Good for you for putting your long term friendship above your (hopefully) short term emotional response.
 
Oct 28, 2014
5
Catalina 1998 28' MKII Brockport Yacht Club
If I wanted a partner to maintain use of the boat, I would've drawn up the papers as such to have use of the boat and split the $$ on sale of the boat. As it turns out my friend bought another boat more to his liking and another person bought mine. A win-win situation.
 
Feb 21, 2011
74
Hunter 410 Lorain
Didn't SELL a boat to good friend - but BOUGHT a boat. My O'Day 30 came from my dock neighbor and friend. It was a little bit pricier than it should have been - BUT it was a great boat! Capt Bill on STARGAZER
 
Mar 26, 2016
12
C&C 30 Mk I Silver Harbour
In my opinion, this "dear Abby" sort of personal quandary does not belong in a public forum, and this instance is not really sailing-specific, in the sense that the sold item could have been a car, a motorcycle, a home or anything else of value. Could we please keep topics to those of genuinely nautical interest? There is enough specific information in the thread to identify the individuals involved if you were in the among those who know the poster of the original thread, which also makes it look like it is simply the airing of a personal grievance.
 
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kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
In my opinion, this "dear Abby" sort of personal quandary does not belong in a public forum, and this instance is not really sailing-specific, in the sense that the sold item could have been a car, a motorcycle, a home or anything else of value. Could we please keep topics to those of genuinely nautical interest? There is enough specific information in the thread to identify the individuals involved if you were in the among those who know the poster of the original thread, which also makes it look like it is simply the airing of a personal grievance.
Who are you mister 2 posts!
 
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Oct 28, 2013
678
Hunter 20 Lake Monroe
A boat sold for a profit? Think he would sell ours for us as we found a sweet C25 we would like to step up to!

Sam
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
In my opinion, this "dear Abby" sort of personal quandary does not belong in a public forum, and this instance is not really sailing-specific, in the sense that the sold item could have been a car, a motorcycle, a home or anything else of value. Could we please keep topics to those of genuinely nautical interest? There is enough specific information in the thread to identify the individuals involved if you were in the among those who know the poster of the original thread, which also makes it look like it is simply the airing of a personal grievance.
unfortunately for you it looks like it's ok with the powers that be...... as they made it the topic for the week.......if it offends you there is a report button to report a complaint too ........sorry for the assertion SBO .......
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
A boat sold for a profit? Think he would sell ours for us as we found a sweet C25 we would like to step up to!

Sam
dang sam some people have all the luck if my friends sold mine for me they would come back with a basket of oranges telling me what a good deal they made for me :laugh:
 

kito

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Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
A boat sold for a profit? Think he would sell ours for us as we found a sweet C25 we would like to step up to!

Sam
Not hard to sell a boat for profit when you buy it at half the going price ;) I will post more details later but now I am getting tired of this thread. I try to get out......and they pull me back in LOL
 
Mar 23, 2009
139
Rafiki 35 North East, MD
In my opinion, this "dear Abby" sort of personal quandary does not belong in a public forum, and this instance is not really sailing-specific, in the sense that the sold item could have been a car, a motorcycle, a home or anything else of value. Could we please keep topics to those of genuinely nautical interest? There is enough specific information in the thread to identify the individuals involved if you were in the among those who know the poster of the original thread, which also makes it look like it is simply the airing of a personal grievance.
I'm sorry, but no. A boat is not the same as "anything else of value." When selling my last boat (a Grampian 26), I sold the boat for about half of what I could have made from stripping off the valuable components and scrapping the hull-- solely because I loved the boat and couldn't bear to part her out. And I refused to sell the boat to someone who suggested he might part her out. My last car? I would have set it on fire if someone had paid me more to do that than to sell it. Boats are different-- for many of us, anyway.

I am betting it meant something to the original poster to have his boat go to his friend, who he believed would be sailing the boat with his family. I expect he was upset his friend sold the boat a year later, period. The fact that his friend turned a profit by doing so just rubbed salt in the wound. His post was definitely specific to boating and perfectly appropriate for this forum (as evidenced by the 4 pages of replies from people and the fact that the mods made it a featured post).
 
May 19, 2009
6
Macgregor 19 beverly, ma
Kudos to you giving your friend a break,
Dick move on your friends part overall.
I suspect his wife is behind it. ;)
 
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STC

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Apr 9, 2016
1
Renovated Sailing Barge 100 year old 31 meter Pavillion Clipper Wormerveer, North Holland
I'm going to give you a legal answer from my jurisdiction, but perhaps not the same in yours. Don't read it for the law, but simply as a posible guide that might help you get to the etiquette. I think the law is a good go to, simply because it is what society turns to when they want to know what their rights are.
In this case, you actually did have a legal agreement. You sold the boat to him, true enough, but there was a condition precedent to the sale. Your pal broke the contract when he did not offer the boat back to you first before selling it to someone else. That is the piece that, for me, informs everything else.
Yes, I know, it was not in writing - but it does not need to be in writing. That is a myth. With a house, you almost need a writing. With a pleasure boat, not so much. True, if it were in writing, you would have proof. But that is the only difference here, and there are many other ways to establish that you had said this. When he bought it, that meant he agreed -- again, in my jurisdiction.
Now, let's leave the law for a moment. You are friends. He knows what you said, even if, to be generous, he has forgotten it. If you jarred his memory, he would probably remember.
If he were a friend of mine, and if I wanted to keep the friendship, I would tell him that I have really appreciated our friendship, but that in order to keep it, I needed to clear the air.
I would stress again that I really did want to keep the relationship, then, I would ask him what he remembered of the terms of the sale.
If he does not mention your clause, I would remind him of it. If he swears he does not remember it, then you can forget it all, kind of, and either allow him to do it possibly do it again, or never sell him anything again. You could also choose to end the friendship or sue him. You might not win unless you have someone else who knows about your sale, or some other good proof, though. (I know you don't want to do either of the last two things, I'm just letting you know what the remedies are.)
If he does remember the clause, I would tell him that I would really would rather have the boat back on the conditions I gave him, but that I know that can't happen. The third party was innocent, and the boat is now legally the property of the third person. Still, I would ask him if there is a way he could make it up to me, so we can both continue to feel good about our friendship.
If he says no, you can still maintain the friendship, but I agree with everyone else, and I would probably think money was more important to him than my friendship. That's a judgment call, and has nothing to do with the law or etiquette.
Still, when I come across things like this, the law helps me figure out the etiquette of the situation, and that informs my final decision.
 
Dec 13, 2010
123
Hake 32RK Red Bank
Your act of generosity should be its own reward, take pleasure in knowing that you gave something that has brought them benefit and pleasure. If on the other hand, the generosity was conditioned on reciprocity, you would have been better served with a legal contract. A gift (in this case discounted price) is a gift or else it is a business proposition. If it was a gift then let it go and enjoy the generosity.