Let's Buy A Sailboat

[Don Guillette]

I've had some interesting phone conversations over the years and this one was high on the interesting list. A fellow called me and indicated his wife has decided they should buy a sailboat over 35'.That's a nice idea. Before I could ask him about his sailing experience he told me he'd never sailed a boat BUT said it looked pretty simple and could I give him a quick overview of what's involved to sail a boat. I told him he could just raise the main and roll out the jib and call it sailing. He asked me if that was it and I told him that's what 50% of the worldwide sailing population does (the top 25% are experts and the bottom 25% want to know the what/why to improve efficiency - the middle 50% don't know what they don't know).

He asked how efficient that was and I told me not very much. Next he mentioned the owner showed him all the controls for the main & jib and he thought they were confusing and asked how many were important - I told him ALL of them. Additionally, I told him that you need to know the adjustment for each control for the main & jib for every point of sail and wind condition. SILENCE. I asked him to suppose his wife decided they should buy a plane - if you turned a boat horizontally it would be a plane - what would be his first step? He said ground school. Right, because I can't teach you to sail a boat over the phone no more than I can teach you to play the piano or fly a plane by phone.

I said the most basic thing that you must know, as with anything in life, is WHAT each sail trim controls for the main and jib is adjusting - there are only 4 elements and I explained them to him - I showed him using my hand. It's the Bernoulli Principle, since he went to public school he was unfamiliar with Bernoulli, that explains how various pressures of air flowing over and under plane wings (sails) generates lift.

My suggestion to the fellow was save your money - you'll tire of the boat quickly and it's a pain to dump - sell your wife on a cruise or a new sports car.

If you buy a sailboat, a set of golf clubs, a good tennis racket etc get the most out of your investment - spend some time to learn how to use it at least past the beginner stage to low intermediate. A sailboat is not a toy and bad things can happen very quickly and when they do the folks on board turn and look at you - you have no one to look to - you're it!!

To determine a solution to a sailing problem you have to know what the problem is. Beginners to intermediates can't determined a "fix " because they can't visualize the situation. That's where experienced contributors to the forum can help newbies. Newbies will be grateful - can you describe some serious situations you were in where it "went hell to a hand basket" and how you dealt with it?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Recently, we ran out of fuel while entering a busy harbor and had to sail to the dock. Knowing what all those ropes do helped quite a bit

 

[DRhoads]

Recently, we ran out of fuel while entering a busy harbor and had to sail to the dock. Knowing what all those ropes do helped quite a bit

Knowing where the fuel gage is would help too.

 

[dlochner]

When asked a similar question, I take a different tack. You can learn the basics in an afternoon of sailing with a skilled sailor, it takes a lifetime to master the skills and that is what makes sailing enjoyable, learning and mastering. I also tell them that big boat sailing is about managing systems, small boat sailing is about sailing, so start small, learn the basics and spend some time developing proficiency, then move on to bigger boats.

Last year when anchored off Key West, our engine became disabled and we needed to get back to Marathon to deal with the issue. So we sailed off the anchor in a crowded anchorage and sailed the 40 miles back to Marathon, then we cheated and called TowBoat and had them tow us the last couple of miles.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Knowing where the fuel gage is would help too.

Yea, s*#t happens. the sender on mine broke.

 

[BarryL]

Hi,

I started sailing on a Catalina 22 in 2003. I read books and articles, then sailed and practiced. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

I was very careful about only going out in calm conditions for the first few times. Even so I had a number of 'interesting' incidents, like why are we spinning in circles every time I try to tack, "Oh yeah, I need to take the pigtail topping lift off of the boom otherwise you can't ease the main and the main will overpower the rudder in 10 kts of wind." And that was a small simple boat that you could 'muscle' around if you had too. If I had started w a 35' boat either my wife would have left me, killed me, or I would trashed the boat.

After a year w the 22' boat I was ready for a 28' boat. and so on.

Barry

 

[Don Guillette]

One of my many experiences was years ago. I had sold a Mac22 and purchased a Catalina 25. We only had it for 1 week and were not too familiar with the boat. We were motoring past Huntington Beach to Long Beach. Somehow I found myself in an area where the waves coming in meet the waves going out. The motor swamped and I desperately tried to start it and were drifting in toward shore. My wife was watching my wasted efforts and casually stated that maybe we should hoist the sail and sail out of this mess. I told her I was just thinking about that. Actually, it was the last thing on my mind - one thing I was thinking about was seeing my boat picture in the Orange County Register as it sat on Huntington Beach!!

 

[Skipper J]

Well, it's good that your boat didn't end up in the paper! Sometimes two heads are better than one.

I sailed a Sunfish at summer camp, then a 420 and windsurfer in college. More boats later. I think dinghy sailing is a great place to start, as you develop your muscle memory and reflexes. You can often prevent a capsize by letting the mainsheet out a foot or two, in a gust. Your arms, your feet, your bottom, all are judging what the boat will do next. You train your eyes to look for the corrugation of the water that indicate that a gust is headed toward you. As they say with kayaks, you wear a small boat.

You transfer that awareness of water, boat heel and wind to bigger boats as you go up. There's a trade-off: you are likely to stay out of the drink in bigger boats, but if you run aground, you have more trouble getting unstuck. The boom is also heavier, if it clocks you.

Redundancy is important. Learn to carry a spare this and a spare that. Imagine what you'd do if you had to make a spare rudder, for instance. Could you rig up the companionway hatch to do the job, for instance? Things will fall overboard - clevis pins, reading glasses, hats, sunscreen - so be careful but have back-up plans. Keep at least two means of propulsion on board at minimum - sail, paddle, and, if your boat warrants it, a motor.

Aim for a certain return time, but don't take risks to meet the schedule. Learn to stay out of the way of anything that can hurt you. I once saw a 24' sailboat break away from the truck that was launching it and roll backwards down the ramp. If anyone had been standing behind it, they would have been run over. Keep your hands and feet out of the line of motion should anything with tension on it break loose.

The sailboat was fine and the trailer was rescued!

 

[Calif. Ted]

We were motoring past Huntington Beach to Long Beach. Somehow I found myself in an area where the waves coming in meet the waves going out.

Sounds like the "Huntington Flats", a locally notorious "Puke Factory". I was asked to accompany a non sailing neighbor once. He kept saying "It's just all these ROPES, they are SO confusing !!! I'm gonna get rid of a bunch". My explanation that they ALL DID something, and when you know what that is it's NOT confusing did not resonate with him. His wife was actually more receptive and paid more attention.

 

[Thaniel]

He asked how efficient that was and I told me not very much.

I think it is funny that so many people talk about how to squeeze every little thing out of the sails. One of the biggest thing I felt was omitted in the sailing courses I took was how to set the sails to get rid of the extra wind. There was a ton on optimizing the sails though.

Last Saturday sailing a small Catamaran for the first time my thoughts weren't on how to get the most efficient sail setup, I was constantly thinking can I dump the power out of the sails fast enough in a gust to keep the darn thing from flipping over. The sails were never set optimally for the several hours we sailed. Did we have fun? You bet. Did we flip the thing over? Nope.

Based on the photos of sail boats sailing heeling way too far, I see all over the web, there are many people out there carrying way too much sail. Some more lessons on how to set the sails less efficiently might be useful.

 

[Don Guillette]

Sounds like the "Huntington Flats", a locally notorious "Puke Factory". I was asked to accompany a non sailing neighbor once. He kept saying "It's just all these ROPES, they are SO confusing !!! I'm gonna get rid of a bunch". My explanation that they ALL DID something, and when you know what that is it's NOT confusing did not resonate with him. His wife was actually more receptive and paid more attention.

Two points: Exactly, it was Huntington Flats. If I had my choice between teaching a man or woman to sail I'd pick the woman. I don't know what it is with guys but they can't seem to admit what they know - maybe they are embarrassed where gals are not and they listen. Guys are thinking of the next question. Many guys would start out the question with they have been sailing 20 years and then ask me about the topping lift.

 

[Radio Flyer]

When asked a similar question, I take a different tack. You can learn the basics in an afternoon of sailing with a skilled sailor, it takes a lifetime to master the skills and that is what makes sailing enjoyable, learning and mastering. I also tell them that big boat sailing is about managing systems, small boat sailing is about sailing, so start small, learn the basics and spend some time developing proficiency, then move on to bigger boats.

Last year when anchored off Key West, our engine became disabled and we needed to get back to Marathon to deal with the issue. So we sailed off the anchor in a crowded anchorage and sailed the 40 miles back to Marathon, then we cheated and called TowBoat and had them tow us the last couple of miles.

Nothing finer than silent running. Sailing into and out of an anchorage is skill affirming.
Bright move for the last 2 mi. There was a derelict shrimp boat outside of Marathon that gave me nightmares of a screw-up.

 

[tfox2069]

I once waited too long to roll up the jib on my H36 as a thunderstorm barrelled over us. By the time I got it halfway rolled up the winds were so strong, and the forces on the sail so violent, that the bearings on the jib roller exploded, and the jib completely unrolled of its own volition. Now exposed fully to the wind, the wind whipped the suddenly slack jibsheets into knots around the rigging. With no way to roll up the jib, I decided to bear away from the wind at speed under motor and at least reduce the windspeed by a few knots. As I was thinking through what to do next it suddenly dawned on me: Don't think about how you'll roll up the jib without a working furler in a thunderstorm, just drop it to the deck like a hank on jib. Duh.

 

[LakeShark]

So I don't generally chime in on these threads but this one caught my eye.

The honest answer to the question of how I would help advise new sailors it would be to go racing! Crew at a local club because its free and you'll learn more in a year there than the average cruiser knows in a decade. You'll learn about how to properly trim sails, reduce power, increase power, and handle the boat well.

Speaking from a place of experience I have been sailing for decades and even lived onboard for over 10 years. I have owned large cruising yachts, gained enough commercial time to be a 100T master mariner with Sailing and Towing endorsements in coastal and inland waters, as wells as having seen my fair share of adverse conditions over the years. But nothing has helped me more than learning to race in the past 5 or so years on a simple little C22 day sailor. I was one of those cruisers who could make the boat go but when the weather piped up the sails came down. Now its just a fun adventure where I feel completely in control. Let me give you a recent occurrence from this past week.

I launched for a 3 night cruise down the Mississippi river. I knew the channel was low as the river is down but in my mind that made spotting the wing dams on the Northern Mississippi all the easier. We launched but the ramp was so shallow the boat could not have the rudder attached. My little wing keel draws 2.6 feet with the rudder on and just under 2 foot with it off. a local fisherman warned me of a bar with a crossing depth of 1.8 feet on the way out of the channel. So knowing my boat handling abilities I steered with the outboard. It was sloppy but doable. We made it to the main channel, installed the rudder, and went about our trip.

The following day we motored a few miles south where the river widens into a large 24 mile long lake. We set sail and started in light winds ghosting along. Flying a full main and a 150% genoa we made a blazing 2 mph on average. After lunch the wind picked up to a steady 15 with gusts to the high teen and low 20s. I never reefed, or changed the head sail because I never felt the need. I simply adjusted the trim. a bit more vang, less sag in the headstay, and some additional rake kept the boat nicely trimmed at about a 10-15 deg. angle as we beat to weather for hours. We passed dozens of cruising boats struggling to make headway and barely in control in the gusty conditions with reefed mains, sloppy partially furled head sails, and motors running. With just my son and I onboard we sailed more than 40 miles tacking back and forth to our anchorage for the night. Arriving just in time to tie up at a local restaurant and grab a bite to eat we talked about our trip.

He commented how much better I have gotten about handling the boat. No more rail dipping, rounding up, just smooth speed that felt in control all the way. In the high winds we made over 6mph for most of the afternoon and burned less than 2 gal of fuel for a more than 5o mile (river miles) adventure down the Mississippi. It was a great time and as we loaded back onto the trailer we put the rig away as a well oiled machine.

That is where we ought to be going as sailors. Our goal ought to always be to use the wind to the best of our ability, trim our sails, know our boats, skills, and limits. That way we can truly enjoy each and every day on the water. So how do you become a better cruiser? Learn to race! you'll understand the sails far better and know what makes the boat go forward and not what makes the boat go over but like all things in life. It will take some time to learn and you must put in the time to truly learn a boat.

 

[Don Guillette]

When I bought my first sailboat I knew I was in trouble the minute I stepped foot on it it - I didn't know how to sail it. I thought I could learn to sail by crewing on race boats. I contacted winning skippers in Long Beach and Newport Beach, Ca. The conversation was cordial until it got to the part of of my experience - None. It was like asking the best looking high school girl to the prom - her response is "I'll let you know" , which in woman talk means "no thanks".

Next, I saw a notice at West Marine in Los Alamitos for a pick up crew. I could write a chapter on that experience. None of us knew what we were doing and often we finished the race AFTER the race committee went home!! In short it was a waste of time.

Even if your on a boat with an experience race crew you have no idea what adjustment they are making to each sail trim control for the main and jib and they don't have time to explain it to you AND many of them couldn't anyway - they just KNOW but communication is not their strong point plus they don't have time for a lecture. All the sail trim controls have to work together. On a masthead rig the mainsheet/traveler trimmer is reacting to the jib trimmer and a newbie can't take it all in. It's like going to the Grand Ole Oprey to watch a band so you can learn to play their instruments..

Another popular misconception is duplicate the sail trim of the boats in front of you. Again, you have no idea what adjustment on each control were made to get the set you are seeing.

When I lived in So Ca I conducted a 4 hour "on the water" seminar. The first hour was like a Chinese fire drill but during the last hour they could spot sail trim problems on near by boats, there were plenty to choose from, and tell me exactly what controls to use to correct the situation.

If you want to learn how to sail your boat here's my personal opinion of the process of how to do it - it worked for me. FIRST, learn what all the sail trim control for the main & jib are adjusting - there are only 4 elements. NEXT, learn which element each sail trim control adjusts. NEXT is the hard part - you now need to know the setting of each sail trim control for the main & jib for each point of sail and wind condition.

Sounds like a lot of work - it was. and it took me over 8 months of researching and on boat testing to figure it out. Half way through the adventure I realized how simple sail trim actually is. The lights went on when I mastered the first step. You can figure it out for yourself but why waste your time - I've already done it for you. Buy the SAIL TRIM USERS GUIDE and the SAIL TRIM CHART. With each chart I sell I Include a FREE QUICK REFERENCE which indicates which control adjust each of the 4 element and which way to push or pull them to get the adjustment you desire.

 

[LakeShark]

@Don Guillette your sail trim chart is well known on this forum and your experience is well published. That said I must respectfully disagree with your assessment in part. While I agree that the SoCal racing seen was tough (I had some bad encounters in the 90s with some over zealous boats) the landscape has changed. The "Yachities" got old and their clubs in part started to die. the best clubs in the country now are those who openly welcome new crew and are willing to help them com up in the ranks. One club in Wyzetta here in MN is thriving in large part due to their open acceptance of new sailors. Other one design fleets like sunfish, Catalina 22s, etc. are growing as well. The good old boys on the very expensive yachts are fading except in very well known and established races. My local club loves new sailors and always takes the time to teach and demonstrate what the sail controls are doing.

Now perhaps I am biased as my experience is more limited in recent years but trailering well over 5000 miles a year to participate in various races, cruises, etc. I have found the exact opposite in clubs thought the mid west. Many new sailors don't read so much anymore and the current generation will not put in 8 months of study before buying a boat. Most today will learn from YouTube as its free and some will become successful. In my opinion telling someone they need to know all the sail controls and what they do 100% before sailing is like asking a 16 year old to fully understand the mechanics of the internal combustion engine and drive train before they can learn to drive. While its great to know all those things and they can be learned with study, they are not all necessarily a requirement to get started.

One final case in point and then I will bow out (as I said I don't often contribute to these because it often proves not to be so beneficial for others). I learned to sail off of Catalina Island in Emerald bay at a boy scout summer camp in a lido 14. Our instructor was a young man in his early 20s back then who gave us some chalk board talk and then sent us to the boats. He said I can teach you all day on the beach but you wont remember it. An afternoon in the boat is where the learning happens. As we rigged the boats we started to ask how far off shore we could go. He looked out and saw a cruise ship departing Long Beach in the distance his words were "its up to you, you can go race that ship if you want, we can sail around the entire island if you want, you'll know when its time to head back". As we headed off and got away from the island into the larger swells and wind we knew exactly what he meant. He came along jumping from boat to boat teaching all he could while we had time on the water. Never did he mention draft, vang, etc... The sails were all toast as the boats were all donations but they moved in the wind and all of us learned how to sail them well within our abilities at the time. After a week or so we would often grab a boat after supper and just go for a sail, no instructor, no rules, no boundaries, just a couple boys, a boat, and the wind. This is what drew me to sailing and I believe it is what draws others as well.

Thank you again for the conversation on your personal forum and for allowing me the opportunity to respectfully disagree.