Legal Question....Outrageous bills?

[RoadTool]

Great post Acoustic

All We pay for here is lifting in and out the marina gets no more , masting and dismasting are done by We the owners ...... Diy or it doesnt get done .

 

[Badger N.H.]

I agree, DIY.

If you can afford to have work done for you be prepared to be taken advantage of. Never do business with anyone who refuses to give a ball park estimate.When dealing with comercial boatyards always expect the price to be up in the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" catagory.Don't trust boatyards where the employees wear polo shirts with the company logo.If you do find a business that you can trust, return their honesty by allowing them a little leeway in the final price. If they were nice enough to give you an estimate, don't hold them to it, unless they are outragously over. Oftenit's because of jackass complainers that companies refuse to give estimates.If you are lucky enough to get an honest estimate, give them a price that they should not go over and have them call you if it does. Some places automatically give very high estimates. Don't trust them either. Look for honesty. Judge character.

 

[Ross]

I have always followed the concept

of the value of my time. I have much more time than money so I make a point of learning to make almost all of my own repairs on my boat, in my home and on my cars. Now the investment in tools and time I know exceed my budget for car repair. So I concentrate on earning money at the things I can do most profitably and hire the repairs on my car. I have used the same mechanic for almost thirty years and I trust him absolutely. Since I repair houses for my living I repair my own house and because I remodeled Bietzpadlin no one knows the workings of that boat better than I.If you can't or won't take time to learn the skills needed and be willing to invest some money in tools then you should be prepared to pay someone who has made these efforts. I often encounter work that is impossible to estimate because most of the repair work needed is concealed and cannot be defined until the area is exposed. If the home owners insist on a firm estimate then I cheerfully write one that is based upon the very worst that I can imagine. If it is accepted then I get to work, if not then it isn't my problem.Sometimes I hear people complaining about the high cost of home repairs while they are on the way out the door to pick up their children at some exclusive private school. I just smile and say everything is too expensive these days but we are all in the same boat. My wife had a tooth go bad last year. Have you seen what can be spent on a tooth restoration?I charge a rate that is necessary for me to stay in business and be able to maintain a standard of living a little above the poverty line.And that is my rant for the night.

 

[Waffle]

Sounds right if not cheap!

A 6000 cost about $2500 without a rudder angle sensor to install. The price seems cheap! It is a boat. A hole in the water in which you pour money!

 

[John]

Raymarine that diffcult?

Looking to buy a new autopilot. If it is that hard to install, Raymarine has a problem. Maybe Simrad will be the new one.

 

[Waffle]

John, I think they are all the same

Time required depends on how complex the system is. Below deck unit take longer than above decks unit (Harder Install). The boat makes a difference too. How easy is it to access the installation spaces and run cables.If you want to save money install it yourself, but the manufacture isn't going to make a big difference.

 

[sailortonyb]

It took me....

It took me about 7 hours to install a Raymarine auto pilot on my catalina 30. A good part of the time was spent re-reading the instructions over and over again. depends on the boat you are putting it on. Read instruction over and over again....1 Hr. Thinking about where i wanted to mount everything...3 1/2 hours. Install the steering wheel components...20 mins. drill a few holes...20 mins. Rudder sensor....20 mins. Run electrical wires 1 hour. Mount the control unit.... 30 mins.

 

[sailortonyb]

One more thing...........

I had never done anything like this before and if i had to do it again, i think i could be done in under 2 hours total. You must take boat out to check the system.

 

[Ross]

TonyB, reading the instructions

and considering the total problem is all part of learning a skill. Once someone has installed a couple of similar items they learn the procedure and it all goes faster. I don't charge for learning to install the first unit but I make note of how long it takes to make the actual installation and set my future price that way. The more experience I gain the more profitable it becomes.

 

[Dave D 94 H26]

Hey B.O.

Don't let the few crabs here put you off, I take it you either didn't have the time, tools, or confidence to DIY, so you made a call and went with it. It doesn't always turn out rosey. Get out there and sail, keep learning about your boat and enjoy youself. As far as I'm concerned, I just learned something from you! Thankyou!Dave

 

[Bad Obsession]

I made the call

I made the call to let someone do the install because I thought that I would be getting an expert in the field. Plus I didn't have the time to do this because I have a lot of other things going on right now. If I had known then what I know now, I would have done it myself. It is easy to say what should have been done after it was done, but the whole experience is really unfortunate.

 

[sailortonyb....]

Bad Obsession

My reply about how long it took me was not meant as a brag nor to judge you for a bad decision. It was posted just to give others an idea of how long it should take to do this themselves on a Catalina 30. Obviously each boat is different.When i had my woodworking business, I never charged for 'learning' nor have i ever charged extra because i didnt have a 'specialized' tool. I charged what i felt was a fair and reasonable price. Not everyone feels that way.As for your decision to let them go ahead and do it. I probably would have been put off by the fact that they never did it before. Other than that, i would have done the same thing. I either work offshore or way way out of town. My time at home (on my boat) is limited and i try to make the best of it. Have I ever made bad desisions before..yes. Bad decisions concerning labor charges on my boat when i could have done it myself...yes. Why did I make these bad judgement calls? B/C i didnt have the time to do it myself. I can sail or I can repair/upgrade my boat. Sometimes I can do both, sometimes i cant.Will I ever make these bad calls again? Probably.I guess we are not as fortunate as others that never make these bad decisions.If you look at my first reply to this post (#1), you will see that it was not a criticism. I merely stated that you use the F.I.D.O. attitude. (F**k It and Drive On). Just bite the bullet.I just hope it works well when you test it out. The system is very simple. If they did anything wrong, it wont take but a minute to correct it yourself.Have fun sailing.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

Hey BO

feel your pain, and it's a new to you boat too right? Had a similar experience with my local marina right after I bought my 37.5. Tranny went out and my regular guy gave me a bum deal (not sure if he had bad info, inexperience, or trying to screw me. I haven't been able to use him since.)Like folks said, try to negotiate and get em down a little. You will get more with honey that vinegar. Maybe hint at more work to come, etc. Calm down, then call them, explain that you didn't realize SO MUCH of their hard work would be required, and maybe they could cut you a little slack this time. Who knows might save you a As for your consulting concept, that won't fly. You basically went down without expecting to get paid for it, so a charge back won't fly in any court. Irritating but true.As for reasonableness, you're never gonna win on that one either. An a/c guy up here says that the SeaRay owners around here tell him to get the a/c fixed TODAY and they don't care what it costs. He charges them for the privilege! In the marina's eye, $1k is probably peanuts for working on a boat. Remember the meaning of B-O-A-T.Count it as an expensive lesson and go enjoy your new boat. That's what I did.Oh yeah, some of the jerks on here can really add salt to a wound can't they. Why do they have to jump on the pile when ur just looking to vent ????? Ignore em.

 

[Bad Obsession]

Even More Information

Now that everything is finished, I will say the marina. It was Dahlgren Marina. The owner was pretty unethical because I had asked several times for an estimate and when I went to pay the bill the marina owner claimed that I had never asked for an estimate. I still don't have a working autohelm. I finally got ahold of Raymarine, again, and I was told by Raymarine that there is a circuit board that they put in backwards. I have to send the unit back to them to get the circuit board put in right. The symptom of the problem is that when the autohelm is turned on it goes hard over to one side or the other. I hope that this is the end of all of the issues and I will finally get the autohelm working.This whole incident has been painful. It is like I encounter problems in every thing I do with this unit. Actually, this boat has been having a lot of bad luck (ran into a gale at Smith Point on the transport home and numerous other issues with weather). Wish me luck and let's hope that the unit will finally work right when I get it back!

 

[Ross]

I have a friend who is a lawyer. I asked him

one day about the Jewish expression "where is it written?" Why is this of such importance? He told me that when something is written it takes on an importance of its own. Exercising 20/20 hindsight( boy am I good at that ) the next time you ask for an estimate send him a memo. He can't deny that you made the request.I always put everything in writting ( because our memories aren't as good as they once were) and because that way we all know that we are working from the same understanding.