LED lights

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Oct 29, 2006
388
Beneteau 381 Olympia, WA
I recently got LED in all lights on the boat and love the power consumption, however the light is somewhat crisp and I'd like to tone it down a bit... I know some LED's are better than others but I was thinking of tinting some of the lights overhead, specially in the sitting area. there seem to be enough light coming from them to be toned a bit... Anyone have experience with this ?
 
D

Doug_Meyer

define "crisp"

I'm curious as to what you mean by "crisp". The LEDs certainly couldn't be as intense as the halogen lights that I currently have. Are they too white or too contrasty? I was thinking about converting and would like to hear more of your opinions
 
Oct 29, 2006
388
Beneteau 381 Olympia, WA
crisp....

Hey Doug, yeah crisp isnt very descriptive... My wife refer to them as "blue" and thats closer, they make everything look cold and therefore blue. my LED are referred to as Cool white and spec says 5000K, normal halogens are about 2500K and there are some new LED that get that but they are expensive... my lights put out more than enough Watts so I think I could dim them with a darker cover on the lenses...

I put a festoon type in the light above the nav table, which has a red lense covering it, and it works GREAT, we leave it on all night and draws no power with only 4 LEDS, provides great nightlight in the cabin. This lead me to believe that I can somehow tint the frosted glass on the regular recessed lights and get same effect but more warm white light, perhaps something that let filters out blue...

I totally recommend LED's but dont underestimate them, they are brighter than halogen as we replaced all our spotlights and went with the smallest LED, even these was brighter than halogen. the warmth is less of an issue with the reading lamps.... I dont regred getting these LEds cause of the price but its not as successful as the nav table light and spots. I can try and get pictures one night.
 
Aug 6, 2009
18
2 none NY
You say they were not expensive so I think the first thing I would try would be to just take an orange highlighter or marker and go over the LED itself. Only of course if they were really cheap. I did this to a dash light when replacing it when the little colored lens that went over it got lost during an install. Worked well enough and lasted a long time and this was not a low heat LED so it should work well enough. Would be a good quick and very cheap first attempt.
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
This is a poorly specified thing in the new LED lights. The reason it is poorly specified is that the specs are generally not good.

Light can be described in many ways. Here are some concepts.
Color temperature. Is the temperature that you would have to heat a blackbody to in order to get the same light. So a Warm white bulb has a color temp of about 2700K (about a conventional incandescent) A neutral bulb (led) is at a higher cooler temp and a cool white is out about 5000K. Cool whites look quite bluish.

The second issue is color rendering. This refers to the completeness of the output spectrum. A lamp with can have warm white color temp and still have poor CRI due to a very spiky output spectrum. The extreme example of this are the low pressure sodium lamps which put out a single color line at orange/yellow. They have very poor CRI and everything illuminated with them looks yellow.

What I did with my LED festoon lamps was to retrofit. I replaced the who knows what they were LED's with some CREE lamps from LEDsupply .com Soldered out the old lamps and soldered in the new ones warm white almost 100lm/watt and CRI in the 80's quite satisfied
 

larryw

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Jun 9, 2004
395
Beneteau OC400 Long Beach, CA
LEDs are great for lights that have to be seen, like taillights and traffic signals, port starboard, etc, but they're not so great to see by, except for flashlights and such. Not for cabin lighting, in my opinion.
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
I disagree, you a good quality LED light (high CRI and the color temp you like)
Will give better quality light that the typical fluorescent tube. Also power draw will be lower, and lifetime is longer. Additional benefit is that the LED is easily dimmable which can further reduce power draw.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
LEDs are great for lights that have to be seen, like taillights and traffic signals, port starboard, etc, but they're not so great to see by, except for flashlights and such. Not for cabin lighting, in my opinion.
It would seem you have not experienced a good quality LED bulb like the Sensibulb. They are warm and very bright and make excellent cabin lights. They also do not interfere with radios, something the cheap LED's do. They also have a constant current power supply and massive heat sink to control temperature so they don't die a premature death.

Buying LED's on price generally saves no money as they have become the snake oils of this decade..

I tried about 7 different bulbs before buying more Sensibulbs. My wife busted me every time saying she hated the light. She still thinks I put all the halogens back in an can't tell the difference between the Sensibulb and the halogens..

Sometimes you actually do get what you pay for..

Here's a comparison I did a while ago.

Hi All,

I went ahead a acquired five different high output interior 12v LED bulbs for comparison.

I wanted to capture the actual beam width and the light color as best I could. I brought the bulbs home and set them up in my garage to shine on the back of the white garage door. I placed the test fixture 25" from the door and use a Deep Cycle battery at a 13.2V float stage charge to power them.

In order to capture every bulb with everything being equal I used a Nikon D-200 DSLR on a tripod with no flash and the garage was pitch black except for the one bulb being photographed. I even re-shot each and every bulb as new ones came in the mail so they were always shot within minutes of each other and at the same level of darkness in the garage. In between shoots I also moved the fixture and camera so I wanted every bulb to be in the exact same position to be fair. The camera was set to manual mode and every picture was taken remotely and on the same exact setting, so all could be as equal as possible. The camera settings were: 1s f/10.0 at 24.0mm iso200

Please note that a camera sees color temperatures differently than the naked eye and tends to skew everything to a warmer glow. The yellow/oragie tints are actually nice and warm and the whitest bulb, the Dr. LED, is almost blue in the real world.

None of the photos, where light was captured, was post processed or run through any photo editing software. This is how they came out of the camera.

I chose these settings because it gave a clearer delineation of where the effective light spread stopped and petered into darkness.


Current Draw is as follows:

20W Halogen = 1.745 amps
10W Halogen =.87 amps
Sensibulb = .194 amps
MarineBeam 6 bulb = .158 amps
MarineBeam 10 bulb = .188 amps
Dr. LED = .138 amps
Superbrite LED = .141 amps

To put it in perspective one 10W Halogen bulb uses 4.48 times (448% more) electricity than does one Sensibulb and one 20W halogen uses 8.9 times (899% more) electricity than the Sensibulb which was the highest drawing of the LED's tested.

This is the Dr. LED G4 / MR-11 it had the narrowest beam width and the coldest bluish color. It was also the least bright with the lowest current draw at .138 amps. At $28.99 I think the MarineBeam bulb is a better value and if you compare price, with beam width and light output, it can't really compare to the Sensibulb in warmness or beam width:


This is the SuperBrite LED's
MR-11 WHP6. It's a six SMD bulb and a decent knock off to the Marinebeam MR-11-6 below. To the naked eye looks virtually identical but the lighting & current draw tell a different story. It has a cold blueish tint and is slightly less bright than the MarineBeam MR-11-6. At $14.95 it is a decent value but certainly not the best color representation. Another clue that it is not the same exact bulb as the Marinebeam is the current draw. This bulb drew .141 amps and the Marinebeam drew .158 amps.

This is the MarineBeam G4 / MR-11-6 it uses 6 SMD LED's and had a much wider beam width than the Dr. LED and about the same as the Superbrite LED bulb but was noticeably warmer in color output. Though the Sensibulb was considerably warmer and more natural looking this was the second most natural looking and fairly close to an incandescent bulbs color. It was brighter and warmer than the Dr. LED bulb and the Superbrite LED and at $24.99 it is a lot cheaper than the Sensibulb. It's a good choice for a price conscious user & it consumes .158 amps :


This is the MarineBeam G4/MR-11-10. Like the G4/MR-11-6 it uses SMD LED's but instead of six it uses ten. It was brighter but notably colder than it's smaller sibling bulb. At $27.99 it is a lot cheaper than the Sensibulb and a good choice for a price conscious user who needs more light output than the G4/MR-11-6 type bulbs can give.. I was not impressed with the color rendering of this bulb and it is tending towards colder rather than warmer especially when compared to the other MarineBeam bulb. It consumes .188 amps :



This is the Sensibulb and it fits both horizontal and vertical fixtures it had the widest beam width, even hitting & wrapping up onto the ceiling. It also had the warmest most incandescent like light output and was definitely the brightest of the tree bulbs but also the most expensive at $39.95 ea ($35.95 with 10% discount). It was significantly brighter than the Dr. LED bulb but also drew the most current of the three LED's at .194 amps (note the reflection off the ceiling and keep in mind this bulb was only 25" from the door):



I have also included this G4 10W Halogen bulb photo for comparison. It draws .88 amps or 448% more than the Sensibulb:


Here's a G4 20W Halogen bulb it draws 1.745 amps per hour or 899% more than the Sensibulb. In terms of light output the Sensibulb falls in between the 20 watt and the 10 watt halogens..



These are the bulbs tested:

From L to R: Sensibulb, Marinebeam G4/MR-11-10, Marinebeam G4/MR-11-6, SuperBrite LED MR-11 WHP6, Doctor LED Mr-11

Front Row: 10 Watt G4 Halogen, 20 Watt G4 Halogen


Test Fixture:



Lumens:

The question of lumens comes up a lot so here it is straight from Practical Sailor. The lower the color temp the warmer the bulb. The Sensibulb is still the widest and brightest.

Here's the technical color temp and lumen data from the Practical Sailor test:

Sensibulb (Daylight)= 150 lumens / 60" beam width / 2990 color temp

Sensibulb (Soft Light)= 130 lumens / 58" beam width / 2650 color temp

Cruising solutions MR 11 6P
= 72 lumens / 48" beam width / 3300 color temp

Cruising solutions MR 16 9P[/b]= 108 lumens / 44" beam width / 3300 color temp

Dr. LED MR-11= 35 lumens / 25" beam width / 3850 color temp



P.S. If you mention to the folks at Sailors Solutions that you read about the Sensibulb here, Nick, one of the owners, has agreed to give 10% off..:D
 

larryw

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Jun 9, 2004
395
Beneteau OC400 Long Beach, CA
All I know is what I've seen in other boats; didn't do any analysis of beam width, color temp and that. Maine Sail, it seems like you have a lot to time on your hands what with your Canadian winters. Your results look like MIL-SPEC EMI/C QTR results. LEDs still not for me.
 
Oct 29, 2006
388
Beneteau 381 Olympia, WA
that is an impressive test! I decided on getting some different LED's which were MUCH more comfortable on the eye and still cheap, they are the yellow square type. I love them and no way I can tell them from halogen except the heat they give off and the amps I save. I have the old white ones as spares but donated the halogens to my neighbor. Mine are 3300 color temp and I heard that anything under 3000 is quite white. I lost where I got mine but I'm sure there are many sources out there.
 

donker

.
Dec 2, 2009
32
Beneteau Moorings 38 San Francisco
Electric panel changes with LED conversion?

Great study, Maine Sail. Question for all of you: I first replaced all the interior lights on my Beneteau M38 with LED (and had the same experience with some of them -- usually the cheaper ones-- being bluish and too bright, but generally handled well with covers) and am now in the final stages of converting all the exterior lights as well.

The draw is so much less that it seems that the need for separate breakers for each light is greatly minimized, so long as the lights have individual switches.
At the same time, over the years of adding things like a flat screen that wound up being on the anchor light breaker, my panel is a sort of mishmash of tape-labeled additions, deletions, changes, etc. I've thought of just redoing the whole electrical panel to take some items separate (as with the example above) and consolidate a number of others int a new panel that is cleaner and perhaps even smaller.

Anyone here have experience, tips, pix, etc.? Help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Anyone here have experience, tips, pix, etc.? Help would be greatly appreciated.
I had two or three breakers for the mast lights when my B323 boat was new. I changed it so there is one breaker feeding a heavy wire to the cabin overhead where there is an access panel around the compression post. I put in a spst switch for the deck light, plus a spdt switch to select either the anchor or steaming light. I can reach in though the salon hatch from the deck to operate them.
 
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