Lectrasan to Conventional Conversion

[Maine Sail]

Peggy,

With Casco Bay becoming an NDZ I am getting calls from owners who want to convert back to standard holding tanks and I wanted to get your thoughts on what the latest and greatest preferred methods are.

The boat I am converting came from the factory with a Kracor 24 gallon tank, which is long gone, but I can order a new one and they can still make it.

The owner does not want a Y valve but does want to utilize the existing 1.5" through hull for overboard discharge for when off shore outside 3 miles. This will lead me to a Macerator or manual pump but there is no space for a manual pump. I have also considered an electric diaphragam pump. What would be your recommendation on brand for a 12v waste diaphragm pump.

I will be installing:

New tank, new head (PHII likely), new hoses, new siphon breaks, deck pump out and macerator or diaphragm pump.

Questions:

1- I have seen numerous situations with macerators mounted both above and below the tank level. I know as close to the tank as possible is preferred. When mounted above the impeller life seems short as it sucks dry for a few seconds and I suspect the vanes bind/glue themselves to the pump body somewhat, when mounted below tank level they tend to corrode and begin leaking. Seems like a no win. I know many builders install them directly threaded into the tank or within a few inches of the tanks outlet as I have done many times. On our 2005 Catalina the pump head to motor seal was corroding and leaking by year two. So above tank fluid level or below? What are your thoughts? The Kracor for this vessel drains off the bottom and there is no room for a top tapping & dip tube. I plan to install a vented loop for the macerator discharge as the discharge seacock is about 1" below water. The owner will "always leave this valve closed" but I still don't trust it to not install one and the part of the tank sits about 6" below water in the boat. Macerator brand preference? Johnson Pump or Jabsco or one I missed?

2- Hose? I was planning to use Trident 101, great stuff, but it is only available down to 1", which is fine for the macerator, deck fill, head to tank but the tank vent and intake hoses what do you use? What are your current recommendations for hose in general and who's got the best prices? I find even the inlet hoses permeate when salt water is used, which this owner is going to do. So what is the best hose below 1" and is Trident 101 still your choice?

Any new preferred piping diagrams I may not have seen yet? I like to stay on top of the latest and greatest trends in sanitation but do need to work with the owners too.

Any input would be appreciated..

 

[Ron20324]

A new item (new to me, at least) on page 499 of the new West catalog is a submersible macerator. It id designed to be built into the holding tank. This means no 1.5 hose is needed, only the 3/4 output hose. Even has the tank vent fitting built in! Of course it is $579, but may make some installations easier?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Ron...

Would YOU want to change the impeller in a macerator pump that lives inside a holding tank? It's not a new idea, btw...Groco has been showing it in their catalog since at least the '80s.

 

[Maine Sail]

I've re-built a few macerators and I can agree it is NASTY work..... Definitely a good time for the nitrile gloves..

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

With Casco Bay becoming an NDZ I am getting calls from owners who want to convert back to standard holding tanks and I wanted to get your thoughts on what the latest and greatest preferred methods are.

There is no such thing as a LectraSan to holding tank "conversion"...you're not actually converting anything (although I wouldn't argue with "reverting")...you're either adding a tank or replacing the LectraSan with a tank. Which depends on how the boat will be used. If it's unlikely to ever leave Casco Bay, the treatment device should be removed because it won't be useable after it's sat unused in the boat for a few years. That should give you as much room as was originally available for a Type III system.

The boat I am converting came from the factory with a Kracor 24 gallon tank, which is long gone, but I can order a new one and they can still make it.

You can prob'ly get the same tank from Ronco Ronco Plastics for about half the price Kracor will charge you for it...and get a MUCH higher quality tank (3/8" walls vs. 1/4"...reinforced corners...fittings installed in the sizes and locations YOU specify instead of where Kracor insists on putting 'em...etc)

The owner does not want a Y valve but does want to utilize the existing 1.5" through hull for overboard discharge for when off shore outside 3 miles.

Then the best course is TWO discharge fittings in the tank--one to the deck, the other to the pump and thru-hull.

This will lead me to a Macerator or manual pump but there is no space for a manual pump. I have also considered an electric diaphragam pump. What would be your recommendation on brand for a 12v waste diaphragm pump.

The SeaLand "SaniPump"SeaLand discharge Pump instructions is by far the best choice...but you may not have room for it if space is tight.

Questions:

1- I have seen numerous situations with macerators mounted both above and below the tank level.... So above tank fluid level or below? What are your thoughts?

There isn't a good place it, so put it where it'll fit and still be accessible to service it. And put a shutoff valve on the tank discharge fitting...cuz macerator pumps never need work when the tank is empty, only when it's full.

The Kracor for this vessel drains off the bottom and there is no room for a top tapping & dip tube.

Do you mean drain IN the bottom of the tank ...or AT the bottom of the tank (which is where most of 'em are)?

I plan to install a vented loop for the macerator discharge as the discharge seacock is about 1" below water.

You can get away without that one if you mount the pump above the tank. But seems to me that if there's room to do that, there should be room for a manual diaphragm pump.

Macerator brand preference? Johnson Pump or Jabsco or one I missed?
Johnson Pump has a slight quality edge over Jabsco, but not enough to matter in my opinion. I don't know of any others.

2- Hose? I was planning to use Trident 101, great stuff, but it is only available down to 1", which is fine for the macerator, deck fill, head to tank but the tank vent and intake hoses what do you use?

Use Shields or Trident #148 for the toilet inlet hose and also for the tank vent--which, btw, should be 1" instead of the "standard" 5/8 and should also use a plain ol' open bulkhead thru-hull instead of a "vent" thru-hull.

What are your current recommendations for hose in general and who's got the best prices?

Trident 101/102 for 1" and larger, Shields or Trident #148 for smaller sizes. I dunno who has the best dealer prices, but you'd be hard pressed to find lower retail prices than the online store here. sbo.com plumbing

I find even the inlet hoses permeate when salt water is used, which this owner is going to do. So what is the best hose below 1" ...

Trident #148, teed into the head sink drain line. That provides a safe source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the whole system...just pouring it into the bowl only rinses out the head discharge line. If you're unfamiliar with this idea, you'll find a lot of discussion about it in the HM forum.

and is Trident 101 still your choice?

For any line that carries waste, yes.

Any new preferred piping diagrams I may not have seen yet? I like to stay on top of the latest and greatest trends in sanitation but do need to work with the owners too.

Despite what you'll see in the WM catalog etc, there is no "one size fits all" piping diagram...the best way to do it--especially when retrofitting--depends on a whole bunch of variables, some of which may not be practical or even possible on a given boat. For instance, the best place for a tank on a saillboat is the bow...but not if the head is 30' away in the aft end of the cabin or the builder has put the air conditioner in the bow. The tank needs to be no further than about 6' from the toilet...but that's not always possible either. Neither is a horizontal vent line that's straight as an arrow and <3' long....

So most installations are a compromise, with a goal of achieving a system that doesn't produce any odor inside the boat OR out the tank vent and is easy to maintain. Achieving that goal rarely costs much more, if ANY more, than a floating Chernobyl. When it does cost a little more, your customers are usually agreeable when presented with that choice.

You might want to check out the link in my signature. The chapter on toilets has become woefully out of date (currently working on the next edition which will fix that), but the chapters on installing and maintaining holding tanks won't become outdated until the laws physics change, and should be useful to you in deciding how best to spec out sanitation systems. And I'm always available too.