I have seen a number of posts regarding this system and Peg has mentioned it a few times. I looked at the website mentioned in those posts and the plumbing diagrams . It looks like the discharge goes either to the holding tank OR get treated and then overboard.. Can it be plumbed to go to the holding tank from the lectra san and then overboard . Can the split occur after the lectrsan that is treated dischare to holding tank or overboard. Thinking about use in a marina . Would not want to dischare in slip at all, but be able to dischare later. Is this do-able? t.
- Status
lectra
I plumbed my lectrasan to go directly overboard. I then converted the forward holding tank to a fresh water wash down tank. The whole idea of the lectrasan is to avoid the use of the holding tank. JR
I plumbed my lectrasan to go directly overboard. I then converted the forward holding tank to a fresh water wash down tank. The whole idea of the lectrasan is to avoid the use of the holding tank. JR
lectra san in slip
I understand what you did john but my inquiry is dircted at dischsrging treated effluent to the tank if in an area where no discharge is allowed or desired such as in a marina slip or some other restricted area and then being able to discharge the treatred effluent from the tank without using a opumpout facility once out of slip or out of restricted area. t.
I understand what you did john but my inquiry is dircted at dischsrging treated effluent to the tank if in an area where no discharge is allowed or desired such as in a marina slip or some other restricted area and then being able to discharge the treatred effluent from the tank without using a opumpout facility once out of slip or out of restricted area. t.
should be simple,but.......
I have to say up front I don't know a lot about your system, but I understand what they are supposed to do. I am going to stay out of what is legal/ethical as far as overboard discharge is concerned and try to answer what your main question was. The area I am not familiar with is how the treated waste gets out of your lectra san system. If it is easy to plumb it to your holding tank, you should be able to run the discharge from your holding tank through a waste pump and out through your overboard discharge. Something to consider is that if the pump dies, your stuck with what's in the tank until you replace the pump as you have no way to use your deck fitting at a pump out facility. Possible but more complicated- You could install a Y- valve right after the discharge on your holding tank, then run one outlet to your deck fitting for pump out, and one outlet to your overboard discharge pump. This would send all your treated waste to your holding tank and give you the option of pumping it out into the water, or using a pump-out facility. The down side is it means more hoses and a Y- valve that can clog. It isn't real hard to take it all apart (provided you have easy access) and clean out, but it certainly can be a very messy experience that most people would rather never have to deal with. I hope this helps, good luck!
I have to say up front I don't know a lot about your system, but I understand what they are supposed to do. I am going to stay out of what is legal/ethical as far as overboard discharge is concerned and try to answer what your main question was. The area I am not familiar with is how the treated waste gets out of your lectra san system. If it is easy to plumb it to your holding tank, you should be able to run the discharge from your holding tank through a waste pump and out through your overboard discharge. Something to consider is that if the pump dies, your stuck with what's in the tank until you replace the pump as you have no way to use your deck fitting at a pump out facility. Possible but more complicated- You could install a Y- valve right after the discharge on your holding tank, then run one outlet to your deck fitting for pump out, and one outlet to your overboard discharge pump. This would send all your treated waste to your holding tank and give you the option of pumping it out into the water, or using a pump-out facility. The down side is it means more hoses and a Y- valve that can clog. It isn't real hard to take it all apart (provided you have easy access) and clean out, but it certainly can be a very messy experience that most people would rather never have to deal with. I hope this helps, good luck!
Operative question
It would seem that the operative question is when you can discharge from the Lectra-San. If you choose to hold the discharge in another tank until you are ready would seem irrelevant. Whenever you can discharge from the Lectra-San you could certainly discharge from a holding tank that contains discharge from the LS. I don't think that placing the discharge in the holdong tank from the LS changes the character of the discharge.
It would seem that the operative question is when you can discharge from the Lectra-San. If you choose to hold the discharge in another tank until you are ready would seem irrelevant. Whenever you can discharge from the Lectra-San you could certainly discharge from a holding tank that contains discharge from the LS. I don't think that placing the discharge in the holdong tank from the LS changes the character of the discharge.
Nope...not do-able
"Can it be plumbed to go to the holding tank from the lectra san and then overboard?" No. Once it goes into a tank, it's no different from untreated waste as far the law is concerned. There's no reason not to discharge a Lectra/San in the slip. It doesn't stink, it's about as visible as skim milk cut at least 50% with water, and actually much cleaner than the water it's going into. The only times it should be necessary--or even advisable--to use your holding tank is on those rare occasions when you visit a "no discharge" zone.
"Can it be plumbed to go to the holding tank from the lectra san and then overboard?" No. Once it goes into a tank, it's no different from untreated waste as far the law is concerned. There's no reason not to discharge a Lectra/San in the slip. It doesn't stink, it's about as visible as skim milk cut at least 50% with water, and actually much cleaner than the water it's going into. The only times it should be necessary--or even advisable--to use your holding tank is on those rare occasions when you visit a "no discharge" zone.
But it does, Ron
Although the L/S reduces bacteria count to <5/100 mililiter, only one of the little buggers has to survive and multiply in the tank to increase the bacteria count to well above the legal limit of <1,000/100 mltr in a very short time, especially in hot weather. There's no way to determine the bacteria count in waste after it's been stored...therefore, all Type I and II devices are certified to discharge directly overboard only, and why only waste that goes directly overboard from the L/S or any other Type I or II is considered "treated" under the law.
Although the L/S reduces bacteria count to <5/100 mililiter, only one of the little buggers has to survive and multiply in the tank to increase the bacteria count to well above the legal limit of <1,000/100 mltr in a very short time, especially in hot weather. There's no way to determine the bacteria count in waste after it's been stored...therefore, all Type I and II devices are certified to discharge directly overboard only, and why only waste that goes directly overboard from the L/S or any other Type I or II is considered "treated" under the law.
Thanks Peg
Peg you have answered the question. no need to use tank other than in no -discharge zone and then use tank and go to pumpout station. Now about the cost of a lectra san. salt thingie, pump, installation............ maybe next year tony
Peg you have answered the question. no need to use tank other than in no -discharge zone and then use tank and go to pumpout station. Now about the cost of a lectra san. salt thingie, pump, installation............ maybe next year tony
marina discharge
Please do not take this as if I am a proponent of simply pumping poop anywhere I want to, but who actually can tell when you have discharged underwater. Are there poop police? I only ask this because of the universal problem of pump out facilities that do not work or are far apart and the holding tank needs emptying now
Please do not take this as if I am a proponent of simply pumping poop anywhere I want to, but who actually can tell when you have discharged underwater. Are there poop police? I only ask this because of the universal problem of pump out facilities that do not work or are far apart and the holding tank needs emptying now
Carisea, One Answer..
....is that California has a law that enables local authorities to board and place a dye tablet on any boat. This has been the rule in Avalon Harbor, Catalina, for about 15 years, and is a pre-condition to obtaining transient moorage. I am not aware of any California coastal area within 3 miles offshore that is other than no-discharge. Commentary follows: Rant: Marina del Rey, the world's largest man-made marina, with over 6,000 boats has ONE public pump out. Sometimes, it works. Rant 2: Avalon instituted the dye as part of a strong reaction to testing done by (EPA?). Anyhow, boat owners were the (assumed) source of the bacterial count. Still bad 15 years later. Runoff? Some. Other found to be broken/leaking sewage pipes leaching into the harbor. At least boats not blamed. Avalon has one pump out that is at an awkward and dangerous approach. One would think that private enterprise would step up, and there are a few mobile services. I am told the licensing and insurance costs are very high, however. And, I suspect mammoth cheating lessens demand. Peggy's commentary about treated discharge being a far better solution should be obvious in this context. I think that, realistically, there is NO possibility to unwind no-discharge rules once implemented. Too bad. Rick D.
....is that California has a law that enables local authorities to board and place a dye tablet on any boat. This has been the rule in Avalon Harbor, Catalina, for about 15 years, and is a pre-condition to obtaining transient moorage. I am not aware of any California coastal area within 3 miles offshore that is other than no-discharge. Commentary follows: Rant: Marina del Rey, the world's largest man-made marina, with over 6,000 boats has ONE public pump out. Sometimes, it works. Rant 2: Avalon instituted the dye as part of a strong reaction to testing done by (EPA?). Anyhow, boat owners were the (assumed) source of the bacterial count. Still bad 15 years later. Runoff? Some. Other found to be broken/leaking sewage pipes leaching into the harbor. At least boats not blamed. Avalon has one pump out that is at an awkward and dangerous approach. One would think that private enterprise would step up, and there are a few mobile services. I am told the licensing and insurance costs are very high, however. And, I suspect mammoth cheating lessens demand. Peggy's commentary about treated discharge being a far better solution should be obvious in this context. I think that, realistically, there is NO possibility to unwind no-discharge rules once implemented. Too bad. Rick D.
Actually, Rick...
True "NO discharge (treated OR untreated)" zones on the west coast are pretty much limited to the three places you named--Catalina, Avalon and Marina del Rey. Type I and II MSDs are legal almost everywhere else. The problem is one of perception--I'd guess that as high as 90% of the boating public doesn't even even know that treatment devices exist. All they know is, "it's illegal to flush the toilet directly overboard," and assume that means "no discharge"--holding tanks only. Most of 'em own boats that don't have the power resources to support a treatment device anyway, so that makes all US waters de facto "no discharge" for them...they just assume it is for all boats.
True "NO discharge (treated OR untreated)" zones on the west coast are pretty much limited to the three places you named--Catalina, Avalon and Marina del Rey. Type I and II MSDs are legal almost everywhere else. The problem is one of perception--I'd guess that as high as 90% of the boating public doesn't even even know that treatment devices exist. All they know is, "it's illegal to flush the toilet directly overboard," and assume that means "no discharge"--holding tanks only. Most of 'em own boats that don't have the power resources to support a treatment device anyway, so that makes all US waters de facto "no discharge" for them...they just assume it is for all boats.
Peggie, Just Curious
how much KO actually treats waste? I know it would vary widely, but did you ever do enough sampling to get an idea? I recall years ago in a PS article that one of the products tested (don't recall which) surprised them by nearing trated-discharge standards. No reason for the question besides curiosity. Rick D.
how much KO actually treats waste? I know it would vary widely, but did you ever do enough sampling to get an idea? I recall years ago in a PS article that one of the products tested (don't recall which) surprised them by nearing trated-discharge standards. No reason for the question besides curiosity. Rick D.
K.O. doesn't TREAT waste
No holding tank product does--at least not to anywhere legal standards. And certainly not any organic product like K.O. or Odorlos, because they're non-chemical...and chemicals are required to kill bacteria. A "dose" of a chemical holding tank product MIGHT be capable of killing off enough bacteria in a single sample to get close to "legal" standards, but the surviving bacteria would continue to multiply and each new flush would add more. Chemicals lose their potency fairly quickly...dilution reduces potency even further. So even if the PS test did show that a chemical reduced the bacteria count to near legal standards in a sample, it wouldn't have any validity or practical application in a holding tank. I prob'ly get asked a dozen times a year if there's anything that can be added to a holding tank to make it legal to dump the tank. There isn't, because there's no way to test the tank contents. The only legal Type I and II devices are those that have been tested in prototype by the CG and certified by them that the discharge meets the legal requirements for both bacteria count and reduction of solids. The mfrs must then produce the devices exactly to same specs that the CG certified...any modification and/or change in design has to be re-certified by the CG before it can go into production. And the device must be installed and used exactly as its been certified for use...any change in the installation (for instance into a holding tank first, or failure to use ONLY the chemicals certified by brand name and potency) by the owner, and it's no longer a legal device. The Lectra/San is unique in that it doesn't require the use of any added chemicals...it creates it's own chemical (chlorine) by charging the ions in salt water with electrical current. The real beauty of it is that chlorine created that way is very unstable...it reverts back to salt water as soon as the stimulus (electricity) is removed, so there's no negative impact on the environment...but while the electrodes are running, the solution is strong enough to kill almost all the bacteria in the waste--far more than current law requires. But to do that in any reasonable length of time, the quantity of waste has to be limited to the 1.75 gallon capacity (approx 2 flushes) of the L/S. In comparison, the SeaLand SanX (discontinued last year) requires a quart of a nasty formaldehyde-based chemical called TDX to treat 9 gallons, and has to run for 20 minutes to macerate and reduce the bacteria count to barely legal limits. The Galley Maid system uses muriatic acid to break down waste and chlorine tablets to kill the bacteria. The Microphor systems break down waste using bio-activity (which can be highly problematic in cold weather and cold water), but also uses added chlorine to kill bacteria. More than you asked, but hopefully informative.
No holding tank product does--at least not to anywhere legal standards. And certainly not any organic product like K.O. or Odorlos, because they're non-chemical...and chemicals are required to kill bacteria. A "dose" of a chemical holding tank product MIGHT be capable of killing off enough bacteria in a single sample to get close to "legal" standards, but the surviving bacteria would continue to multiply and each new flush would add more. Chemicals lose their potency fairly quickly...dilution reduces potency even further. So even if the PS test did show that a chemical reduced the bacteria count to near legal standards in a sample, it wouldn't have any validity or practical application in a holding tank. I prob'ly get asked a dozen times a year if there's anything that can be added to a holding tank to make it legal to dump the tank. There isn't, because there's no way to test the tank contents. The only legal Type I and II devices are those that have been tested in prototype by the CG and certified by them that the discharge meets the legal requirements for both bacteria count and reduction of solids. The mfrs must then produce the devices exactly to same specs that the CG certified...any modification and/or change in design has to be re-certified by the CG before it can go into production. And the device must be installed and used exactly as its been certified for use...any change in the installation (for instance into a holding tank first, or failure to use ONLY the chemicals certified by brand name and potency) by the owner, and it's no longer a legal device. The Lectra/San is unique in that it doesn't require the use of any added chemicals...it creates it's own chemical (chlorine) by charging the ions in salt water with electrical current. The real beauty of it is that chlorine created that way is very unstable...it reverts back to salt water as soon as the stimulus (electricity) is removed, so there's no negative impact on the environment...but while the electrodes are running, the solution is strong enough to kill almost all the bacteria in the waste--far more than current law requires. But to do that in any reasonable length of time, the quantity of waste has to be limited to the 1.75 gallon capacity (approx 2 flushes) of the L/S. In comparison, the SeaLand SanX (discontinued last year) requires a quart of a nasty formaldehyde-based chemical called TDX to treat 9 gallons, and has to run for 20 minutes to macerate and reduce the bacteria count to barely legal limits. The Galley Maid system uses muriatic acid to break down waste and chlorine tablets to kill the bacteria. The Microphor systems break down waste using bio-activity (which can be highly problematic in cold weather and cold water), but also uses added chlorine to kill bacteria. More than you asked, but hopefully informative.
- Status