I recently restored an 81 H22 and after a couple sails I realized I do need to learn a lot more. Is there anybody in the Tampa area with a similar size boat that needs someone to crew with them or sail with me? I'd like to sail with an experienced sailor to learn the nuances of sailing. Thanks, Pete
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Chapman Piloting
Do yourself and the guy you crew for (good idea) a favor and brows through your copy of Chapman Piloting. You are going to run into lots and lots of sailing terms and as a hunter owner/restorer we would not want you embarassing yourself. ;-) Seriously, Chapman has a wealth of info that can make you a better/safer sailer. It did not get to the 63rd edition by being unuseful.
Do yourself and the guy you crew for (good idea) a favor and brows through your copy of Chapman Piloting. You are going to run into lots and lots of sailing terms and as a hunter owner/restorer we would not want you embarassing yourself. ;-) Seriously, Chapman has a wealth of info that can make you a better/safer sailer. It did not get to the 63rd edition by being unuseful.
Chapman piloting
Bill, During the year I spent restoring my boat I was reading Chapman's, the first book I bought at West Marine. I've also read a couple of good books on sailing so I'd say I'm at least somewhat literate on sailing terms. I just wish that's all it took to know how to sail. I will say that I had a good experience on the few sails I made but when the wind shifted and or picked up, I knew I was not prepared to properly skipper my boat. Least of all, take on passengers. I guess what I want to learn from an experienced sailor, among many other things, is what my boat can handle and how to handle it in certain conditions. About the only thing I know for certain right now is that I don't know enough. Thanks for you reply, Pete
Bill, During the year I spent restoring my boat I was reading Chapman's, the first book I bought at West Marine. I've also read a couple of good books on sailing so I'd say I'm at least somewhat literate on sailing terms. I just wish that's all it took to know how to sail. I will say that I had a good experience on the few sails I made but when the wind shifted and or picked up, I knew I was not prepared to properly skipper my boat. Least of all, take on passengers. I guess what I want to learn from an experienced sailor, among many other things, is what my boat can handle and how to handle it in certain conditions. About the only thing I know for certain right now is that I don't know enough. Thanks for you reply, Pete
Another 1st timer in a H22
Second Wind, I am in the same boat... the exact same boat as you are! I too have purchased a H22 (1983) and restored it and have never sailed a day in my life. The boat goes in the water on Sunday and I am very excited to learn. I have been reading all the books I can get my hands on and talking with members of my local sail club. (I think this club will help speed up the learning curve a great deal) I look forward to seeing the replies to this thread as I too have lots to learn about being a captain on an Hunter 22. Matt
Second Wind, I am in the same boat... the exact same boat as you are! I too have purchased a H22 (1983) and restored it and have never sailed a day in my life. The boat goes in the water on Sunday and I am very excited to learn. I have been reading all the books I can get my hands on and talking with members of my local sail club. (I think this club will help speed up the learning curve a great deal) I look forward to seeing the replies to this thread as I too have lots to learn about being a captain on an Hunter 22. Matt
Learning curve
I was fortunate enough to have a coworker with 25 years of experience to guide me through the first learning stages. I think it was better to learn on my own boat from the beginning instead of crewing on another boat. I had a sailing 'personal trainer' of sorts. I only went out during the weekdays when I first started...less traffic. I did my first solo after 4 hours of training wheel sailing. The one thing my trainer keep saying over and over... "Relax..this is supposed to be fun!"
I was fortunate enough to have a coworker with 25 years of experience to guide me through the first learning stages. I think it was better to learn on my own boat from the beginning instead of crewing on another boat. I had a sailing 'personal trainer' of sorts. I only went out during the weekdays when I first started...less traffic. I did my first solo after 4 hours of training wheel sailing. The one thing my trainer keep saying over and over... "Relax..this is supposed to be fun!"
Jazzman
Jazzman, I know exactly what you mean about "relax, this is supposed to be fun". Although I've always been up to any challenge and sailing seemed a great challenge for me. I remember gaining confidence after a few short sails then going out for another sail, trying to remember all the things I read... Raising the jib, the mainsail, a deathgrip on the tiller...the feeling of satisfaction when I was moving along. Hey, I was sailing! Seemed like no big deal. I did some tacks, jibes and gaining confidence. People in motor boats coming by me, waving. I'm thinking, hey, I'm a sailor! Well all of a sudden up came a strong gust, sails now tight a little heel, still no problem and now I'm moving along at a good clip. The fun for me ended when the later gust became a constant blow and now the gusts were getting strong. Then the wind shifts! Holy Shamoly! During a tack the boom swung hard from port to starboard. I fogot about the jib. Next thing a gust heels my boat to the rub rail! Close reach, beam reach etc etc nothing is working. This was no fun for me. I quickly tried to end this whole thing by dropping the main but half way down it jams. I then try to lower the jib with better results but when almost down a gust sends the sail off the bow half in the water the rest still catching the wind but now at least to boat is not heeling. I finally got the main down and stowed away the jib. Cranked up the outboard and back to my dock. My wife was there and asked how it went. I said "pretty good, I did come back".
Jazzman, I know exactly what you mean about "relax, this is supposed to be fun". Although I've always been up to any challenge and sailing seemed a great challenge for me. I remember gaining confidence after a few short sails then going out for another sail, trying to remember all the things I read... Raising the jib, the mainsail, a deathgrip on the tiller...the feeling of satisfaction when I was moving along. Hey, I was sailing! Seemed like no big deal. I did some tacks, jibes and gaining confidence. People in motor boats coming by me, waving. I'm thinking, hey, I'm a sailor! Well all of a sudden up came a strong gust, sails now tight a little heel, still no problem and now I'm moving along at a good clip. The fun for me ended when the later gust became a constant blow and now the gusts were getting strong. Then the wind shifts! Holy Shamoly! During a tack the boom swung hard from port to starboard. I fogot about the jib. Next thing a gust heels my boat to the rub rail! Close reach, beam reach etc etc nothing is working. This was no fun for me. I quickly tried to end this whole thing by dropping the main but half way down it jams. I then try to lower the jib with better results but when almost down a gust sends the sail off the bow half in the water the rest still catching the wind but now at least to boat is not heeling. I finally got the main down and stowed away the jib. Cranked up the outboard and back to my dock. My wife was there and asked how it went. I said "pretty good, I did come back".
Comical maiden voyage
Don't feel bad. Its a rite of passage. Having endured that first sail, you are now a sailor. My first day out on my 212 was comical. After taking a whole hour to rig the boat and waiting 20 minutes at the ramp to launch, my troubles where just starting. As the boat slide off the trailer with one of my friends onboard, the outboard wouldn't start. The kill switch wasn't installed. Then after drifting among the bass boats, my friend found out how tender the 212 is under power and he came barreling toward the dock at an alarming speed when he realized there is no reverse on the motor. When he spun it around for reverse..it died. I had to 'catch' the boat at the dock and soften the landing. I was trying to raise the main under power when I realized the keel line had ran afoul of its main pulley. No keel lowering today. Back to the ramp, boat on the trailer, pry up the keel while we free the rope inside. Thirty minutes later.....back in the water...main up...forgot to remove topping lift..can't tack...fixed that ...sailed for 30 minutes..no wind..dropped the main and the boom..forgot that topping lift again..motored back and almost took out three bass boats at the ramp. All that for 30 minutes of sailing. I parked the 'devil boat' in the back yard and wondered what I had gotten myself into. But I went back the next day and everything was fine. You gotta love this sport or you can't do it.
Don't feel bad. Its a rite of passage. Having endured that first sail, you are now a sailor. My first day out on my 212 was comical. After taking a whole hour to rig the boat and waiting 20 minutes at the ramp to launch, my troubles where just starting. As the boat slide off the trailer with one of my friends onboard, the outboard wouldn't start. The kill switch wasn't installed. Then after drifting among the bass boats, my friend found out how tender the 212 is under power and he came barreling toward the dock at an alarming speed when he realized there is no reverse on the motor. When he spun it around for reverse..it died. I had to 'catch' the boat at the dock and soften the landing. I was trying to raise the main under power when I realized the keel line had ran afoul of its main pulley. No keel lowering today. Back to the ramp, boat on the trailer, pry up the keel while we free the rope inside. Thirty minutes later.....back in the water...main up...forgot to remove topping lift..can't tack...fixed that ...sailed for 30 minutes..no wind..dropped the main and the boom..forgot that topping lift again..motored back and almost took out three bass boats at the ramp. All that for 30 minutes of sailing. I parked the 'devil boat' in the back yard and wondered what I had gotten myself into. But I went back the next day and everything was fine. You gotta love this sport or you can't do it.
reefing
My advice is to practice reefing the boat (assuming you have reef points). You might want your first couple of outings to be with a reefed mainsail (unless the wind is very light). Once you get the feel of the boat reefed, you can always "shake the reef" on later outings to get more speed. Motor out to where there is plenty of "sea room". Then raise the sails. Finish up sailing where there is plenty of "sea room". Bring the sails down and then motor back to the dock/ramp/mooring... You could take some lessons. But there is no substitute for just getting out there and trying it (and don't get discouraged your first couple of times out). You can get a VHS radio in case you need to call for help (and or have a cell phone and a number handy of a tow company).
My advice is to practice reefing the boat (assuming you have reef points). You might want your first couple of outings to be with a reefed mainsail (unless the wind is very light). Once you get the feel of the boat reefed, you can always "shake the reef" on later outings to get more speed. Motor out to where there is plenty of "sea room". Then raise the sails. Finish up sailing where there is plenty of "sea room". Bring the sails down and then motor back to the dock/ramp/mooring... You could take some lessons. But there is no substitute for just getting out there and trying it (and don't get discouraged your first couple of times out). You can get a VHS radio in case you need to call for help (and or have a cell phone and a number handy of a tow company).
leaning tosail
We have all been thru what you just described, you have written one of the best naratives though . A long ago a friend loaned me his sail boat . He was a graduate student and handed me 4 big books and told me to not go near he water until I understood everything in the books . I read a lot and got bored with all of those silly sailing terms . I decided one day that if someone had written a book on learning to ride a bike I would still be reading . Time to hit the water . The one most important thing I did read and remember was the phrase ( when in doubt let it out ) I am sure you have read if you let go of all of the controls on a sail boat it has no choice but to head into the wind and then you can get your thoughts together and take a deep breath and decided what to do next, slow down relax .Do a better job of getting a weather forecast before heading out . I am sure you will get lots of advice here but there is no substitute for doing it on your own once you understand the forces at work . thanks for sharing good luck , fair winds Mike
We have all been thru what you just described, you have written one of the best naratives though . A long ago a friend loaned me his sail boat . He was a graduate student and handed me 4 big books and told me to not go near he water until I understood everything in the books . I read a lot and got bored with all of those silly sailing terms . I decided one day that if someone had written a book on learning to ride a bike I would still be reading . Time to hit the water . The one most important thing I did read and remember was the phrase ( when in doubt let it out ) I am sure you have read if you let go of all of the controls on a sail boat it has no choice but to head into the wind and then you can get your thoughts together and take a deep breath and decided what to do next, slow down relax .Do a better job of getting a weather forecast before heading out . I am sure you will get lots of advice here but there is no substitute for doing it on your own once you understand the forces at work . thanks for sharing good luck , fair winds Mike
First Sail
First sails alway are an adventure!!! We like to smile at first time sailors. When they get back to the docks, we share a brew with them and eveybody gets into telling their first time stories - it turns out everyone has one. Mine included about swamping my boat, getting frustrated, beaching it and walking back to the truck. Luckly I love this sport!!! By the way, after that, I bought the book: Sailing for dummies.
First sails alway are an adventure!!! We like to smile at first time sailors. When they get back to the docks, we share a brew with them and eveybody gets into telling their first time stories - it turns out everyone has one. Mine included about swamping my boat, getting frustrated, beaching it and walking back to the truck. Luckly I love this sport!!! By the way, after that, I bought the book: Sailing for dummies.
Crewing
Second Wind, Although I can't help you now as I moved from Flroida, I do know how helpful it was for me to learn from an experienced sailor. I could write a book on my first sails but like you, I knew when to seek help. I was fortunate to find a sailor who would sail with me on my H22. He had over 40 years sailing experience and also a great teacher. I learned quickly and had a great peace of mind with him on board. I'm sure that where you live and with this great forum, you'll find a sailor to help you. John
Second Wind, Although I can't help you now as I moved from Flroida, I do know how helpful it was for me to learn from an experienced sailor. I could write a book on my first sails but like you, I knew when to seek help. I was fortunate to find a sailor who would sail with me on my H22. He had over 40 years sailing experience and also a great teacher. I learned quickly and had a great peace of mind with him on board. I'm sure that where you live and with this great forum, you'll find a sailor to help you. John
Crewing
John, Thanks for your support. I'm sure I'll find a sailer around here to help me out. Pete
John, Thanks for your support. I'm sure I'll find a sailer around here to help me out. Pete
Your sail selection...
I've managed to scare the crap out of my wife and children a few times too. I'm pretty sure we all have. I have an H23, it probably handles much like an H22 which is to say that it is probably a little on the tender side. I'm guessing that you have a hanked on head sail. I do too. A roller furling head sail would allow you to reduce sail as the wind builds. I don't have one either so I picked up a couple of different sized head sails on eBay that have helped me out a lot. I rigged various lengths of tack pennants to get the smaller sail up the fore stay high enough to make it effective. Then there is the reefing option for your main. You really need to figure that out. You should work on heaving to the wind also. If done properly it gives you a safe stance to the wind while you are reefing your main. Winds 1 - 10 mph I have a full main and a 135 Genoa up. I'd kind of like to have an even larger genoa for wind in the 1 - 5 range... Winds 10-15 mph and I heave to, reef the main and downsize the head sail to a 110 working jib, same as the one that came with her in the first place. That's how I'll leave the mooring ball no matter what the wind speed the first couple of sails in the spring. Winds 15-20 mph and I haul down the 110 and hoist the smaller sail I got on eBay with a 3 foot tack pennant on the tack of the sail. Winds over 20 mph and I run home or hide in the lee of an island! I'd probably stay out if I had a second reef in my main but my girls tend to complain a bit early in the season when she heals over past fifteen. They really prefer a flatter point of sail early in the season. They kind of get their sea legs back after a month or so and then we can mess around with putting the rail in the water and ringing the bell on the saloon bulkhead and scaring the land lubbers foolish enough to come out with us! I know she is moving slower when we are healed over past fifteen but who cares, it can be a lot of fun some times. Welcome to sailing. Stay safe and have a blast.
I've managed to scare the crap out of my wife and children a few times too. I'm pretty sure we all have. I have an H23, it probably handles much like an H22 which is to say that it is probably a little on the tender side. I'm guessing that you have a hanked on head sail. I do too. A roller furling head sail would allow you to reduce sail as the wind builds. I don't have one either so I picked up a couple of different sized head sails on eBay that have helped me out a lot. I rigged various lengths of tack pennants to get the smaller sail up the fore stay high enough to make it effective. Then there is the reefing option for your main. You really need to figure that out. You should work on heaving to the wind also. If done properly it gives you a safe stance to the wind while you are reefing your main. Winds 1 - 10 mph I have a full main and a 135 Genoa up. I'd kind of like to have an even larger genoa for wind in the 1 - 5 range... Winds 10-15 mph and I heave to, reef the main and downsize the head sail to a 110 working jib, same as the one that came with her in the first place. That's how I'll leave the mooring ball no matter what the wind speed the first couple of sails in the spring. Winds 15-20 mph and I haul down the 110 and hoist the smaller sail I got on eBay with a 3 foot tack pennant on the tack of the sail. Winds over 20 mph and I run home or hide in the lee of an island! I'd probably stay out if I had a second reef in my main but my girls tend to complain a bit early in the season when she heals over past fifteen. They really prefer a flatter point of sail early in the season. They kind of get their sea legs back after a month or so and then we can mess around with putting the rail in the water and ringing the bell on the saloon bulkhead and scaring the land lubbers foolish enough to come out with us! I know she is moving slower when we are healed over past fifteen but who cares, it can be a lot of fun some times. Welcome to sailing. Stay safe and have a blast.
What size sails do I have?
Great post Steve! Thanks for the great info. My boat came with 3 head sails. Is there a tag on the sail that labels the size? All I know is that I have 3 total head sails: 1 large sail (colorful, but I don't think it is a spinniker as I have no pole or attachment on the main for a pole) 1 all white head sail smaller then the colorful sail, then 1 sail that is smaller then the others. So I have 3 head sails but no clue if they are 110, 130, 90... or what? Is the size on the sail? Thanks Matt
Great post Steve! Thanks for the great info. My boat came with 3 head sails. Is there a tag on the sail that labels the size? All I know is that I have 3 total head sails: 1 large sail (colorful, but I don't think it is a spinniker as I have no pole or attachment on the main for a pole) 1 all white head sail smaller then the colorful sail, then 1 sail that is smaller then the others. So I have 3 head sails but no clue if they are 110, 130, 90... or what? Is the size on the sail? Thanks Matt
Sail sizes
I think head sails are sized by the relationship between the distance from the fore stay to the mast, more or less perpendicular to the fore stay from the clew. 100% if the sail just fits between the fore stay to the clew. A 110 came with the H23 and H22 I think and it pretty much just gets past the shrouds. I think a 135 would lap the mast by 35% of the distance from the mast to the fore stay. I'm pretty sure that's how it all works. You can find all the measurements you need for your headsail on this site or on sites like thesailwarehouse.com at least that's what I did. I drew my H23 fore triangle and sails in AutoCAD one winter day when I was bored to tears and scaled sails that I found on eBay to see how they compared to the OEM measurements. That's how I decided on which sails to buy. It worked out fine for me as I could overlay the sails on each other and see how they compared. I picked up three crispy and stain free headsails and paid less than $100 each. My 110 is a UK, the big girl is a North. I'm not sure who made the little guy. Actually, I think I only paid $25 or so for the little guy, which was designed to be the head sail on a smaller sailboat than mine but the addition of the tack pennant made it work really well for me on breezy days. Kind of like furling half of the headsail only the leading edge probably cuts the air better than a furled sail would. It has a pretty shape. The North is multicolor and hanks on, probably like the one you described. It was listed as a drifter but I think I've heard it called a gennaker too, I'm probably spelling that wrong... It is a light weight colorful dacron sail. When I run it up the fore stay it looks freakin huge but it is perfect for light air, it really pulls. I swing the sheets outside my lifelines and slide the block way back on the slide when I'm using that sail. When I'm on a run, more or less, as I don't like to sail straight down wind, I can lock it out to windward with a spinnaker pole and swing the boom to the opposite side and run more or less wing on wing. It can really scoot along that way, flat and level. My girls like it that way but it makes me edgy so I don't do it often. I don't have a preventor so I really have to watch the sails and the boom so as not to jib accidentally. Kind of cuts into relaxing and having fun... I usually don't sail any further down wind than a broad reach and just jib a couple of times to get where I want to be, unless I have to get through a channel or something... Anyhow, fun to share what I've picked up over the last five years. Made some mistakes along the way but haven't torn anything up or run aground so I guess I'm getting better. Looking forward to getting her back in the water. More or less two months of winter left here. No good.
I think head sails are sized by the relationship between the distance from the fore stay to the mast, more or less perpendicular to the fore stay from the clew. 100% if the sail just fits between the fore stay to the clew. A 110 came with the H23 and H22 I think and it pretty much just gets past the shrouds. I think a 135 would lap the mast by 35% of the distance from the mast to the fore stay. I'm pretty sure that's how it all works. You can find all the measurements you need for your headsail on this site or on sites like thesailwarehouse.com at least that's what I did. I drew my H23 fore triangle and sails in AutoCAD one winter day when I was bored to tears and scaled sails that I found on eBay to see how they compared to the OEM measurements. That's how I decided on which sails to buy. It worked out fine for me as I could overlay the sails on each other and see how they compared. I picked up three crispy and stain free headsails and paid less than $100 each. My 110 is a UK, the big girl is a North. I'm not sure who made the little guy. Actually, I think I only paid $25 or so for the little guy, which was designed to be the head sail on a smaller sailboat than mine but the addition of the tack pennant made it work really well for me on breezy days. Kind of like furling half of the headsail only the leading edge probably cuts the air better than a furled sail would. It has a pretty shape. The North is multicolor and hanks on, probably like the one you described. It was listed as a drifter but I think I've heard it called a gennaker too, I'm probably spelling that wrong... It is a light weight colorful dacron sail. When I run it up the fore stay it looks freakin huge but it is perfect for light air, it really pulls. I swing the sheets outside my lifelines and slide the block way back on the slide when I'm using that sail. When I'm on a run, more or less, as I don't like to sail straight down wind, I can lock it out to windward with a spinnaker pole and swing the boom to the opposite side and run more or less wing on wing. It can really scoot along that way, flat and level. My girls like it that way but it makes me edgy so I don't do it often. I don't have a preventor so I really have to watch the sails and the boom so as not to jib accidentally. Kind of cuts into relaxing and having fun... I usually don't sail any further down wind than a broad reach and just jib a couple of times to get where I want to be, unless I have to get through a channel or something... Anyhow, fun to share what I've picked up over the last five years. Made some mistakes along the way but haven't torn anything up or run aground so I guess I'm getting better. Looking forward to getting her back in the water. More or less two months of winter left here. No good.
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