I purchased a 192 last summer and have some leak issues and hope someone can give me some guidance. The two stanchons that are mid-ship appear to have developed leaks. I noticed that there is a black rubber gasket between the plate and the deck. It looks to be dried out, cracked, and there is a gap between the deck, gasket, and plate. So, I think this is my problems lies. My question becomes what is the best way to fix this. Can I remove the stanchons and replace the gasket with caulk? Or do they need replaced. If they should be replaced, where can I get them? It also appears that I have some other leaks topside. When I washed the boat a few weeks ago and then took it out the following day, I discovered quite a bit of water in the bilge. I am pretty sure that this came in from above and is not a leak below the waterline. The pipe where the centerboard rope comes through is not leaking and there is no visible hull damage that would let water in. Is there any place else where water would get in from below? This is more water than is coming in through the stanchon leaks I mentioned above. Is it possible that it is getting in through the seat lockers? If so, is there a way to fix this? I appreciate any advice anyone can give me. Thanks, Jason
Leaky stanchons on a 192
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Cockpit drain is a possibility
The cockpit drain on my 192 was in poor shape and had to be replaced. The plastic parts at the ends were brittle and had cracks that leaked. The hose was pretty well degraded too. The drain has to make a sharp 90 degree turn under the cockpit, towards the transom. I bought a a plastic elbow to do this but a better way would be to get a cooling hose of the right diameter from an auto parts place that had a 90 deg. turn molded in. My boat also had some leaks from the windows, but the streaks on the inside help make those easy to spot I also re-sealed a stanchion base that I suspected of leaking. Unlike yours, my boat had no gasket underneath, it was sealed with white caulking material and that is what I used when I put it back. Some people suggest, that when using sealant, you assemble finger tight at first and then come back and tighten the joint several hours later when the sealant has partially cured.
The cockpit drain on my 192 was in poor shape and had to be replaced. The plastic parts at the ends were brittle and had cracks that leaked. The hose was pretty well degraded too. The drain has to make a sharp 90 degree turn under the cockpit, towards the transom. I bought a a plastic elbow to do this but a better way would be to get a cooling hose of the right diameter from an auto parts place that had a 90 deg. turn molded in. My boat also had some leaks from the windows, but the streaks on the inside help make those easy to spot I also re-sealed a stanchion base that I suspected of leaking. Unlike yours, my boat had no gasket underneath, it was sealed with white caulking material and that is what I used when I put it back. Some people suggest, that when using sealant, you assemble finger tight at first and then come back and tighten the joint several hours later when the sealant has partially cured.
Leaks
Jason, You may have leaks at the stanchions, and I think that Rudy Carry's those rubber gaskets at D & R Marine. I would definitely check the gunwale strip. It's probably coming in from there, also. The caulking under that strip is only good for about 10 years, and if you used any type of hull cleaning chemicals on your deck, chances are that it got eaten out by the stuff. All you have to do to get the gunwale strip off is, remove the two screws that hold the rubber in the gunwale track, which are located in the stern. Then remove the rubber from the track as far as where gunwale molding butts up against the rest of the molding, and remove that part of the molding. Clean the area good and apply a good Polysulfide caulking. I use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant Fast cure 4000 UV. Don't use silicone. Screw that portion of the gunwale back on and re-insert the rubber. Then remove the rubber from the stern to the place where you left off, and do the same thing. There may be three moldings or just two, but try to remove half of it at a time so that it all goes back in the same way it was installed at the factory. When you're done, run a hose over the deck and visually check for leaks inside the cabin. Check the upper and lower gudgeon's, and the self bailing hose. Install a deck plate on the inside of your transom so that you can get at these, if it turns out that the problem lies there. You can buy the 1 1/4 inch reinforced plastic hose at the hardware store. I had a single hose on mine and replaced it with a nylon 90 degree fitting, a short piece of hose to connect it to the floor fitting, and a straight hose to the stern outlet. I used four Stainless Steel straps. The original hose had a kink in it. You may be able to get away with removing the two stanchions and caulking them with the old rubber, but before doing that, I'd check those other areas. Here's a site that has a lot of useful techniques on doing this type of maintenance. Just click on, "Tools and Techniques" and pick any of the three choices that come up. Good luck. Joe
Jason, You may have leaks at the stanchions, and I think that Rudy Carry's those rubber gaskets at D & R Marine. I would definitely check the gunwale strip. It's probably coming in from there, also. The caulking under that strip is only good for about 10 years, and if you used any type of hull cleaning chemicals on your deck, chances are that it got eaten out by the stuff. All you have to do to get the gunwale strip off is, remove the two screws that hold the rubber in the gunwale track, which are located in the stern. Then remove the rubber from the track as far as where gunwale molding butts up against the rest of the molding, and remove that part of the molding. Clean the area good and apply a good Polysulfide caulking. I use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant Fast cure 4000 UV. Don't use silicone. Screw that portion of the gunwale back on and re-insert the rubber. Then remove the rubber from the stern to the place where you left off, and do the same thing. There may be three moldings or just two, but try to remove half of it at a time so that it all goes back in the same way it was installed at the factory. When you're done, run a hose over the deck and visually check for leaks inside the cabin. Check the upper and lower gudgeon's, and the self bailing hose. Install a deck plate on the inside of your transom so that you can get at these, if it turns out that the problem lies there. You can buy the 1 1/4 inch reinforced plastic hose at the hardware store. I had a single hose on mine and replaced it with a nylon 90 degree fitting, a short piece of hose to connect it to the floor fitting, and a straight hose to the stern outlet. I used four Stainless Steel straps. The original hose had a kink in it. You may be able to get away with removing the two stanchions and caulking them with the old rubber, but before doing that, I'd check those other areas. Here's a site that has a lot of useful techniques on doing this type of maintenance. Just click on, "Tools and Techniques" and pick any of the three choices that come up. Good luck. Joe
More questions!!!!
Joe and Dave, Thank you both for your responses. I hadn't thought of the gunwale strip and I bet it does need some work! You have also raised some additional questions: 1. How exactly do you get the cockpit drain out? I do suspect that this may be a problem since the external fitting appears to be old and brittle. 2. Joe mentioned an access plate. The previous owner installed one in the fuel locker to access the bolts on the motor bracket when he put on a new one. It is a round panel that i have seen on D&R marine's web site. Are you recommending putting one of these in the transom at the aft center of the cockpit? (below the tiller) How high up would this need to be and how big? 3. Dave mentioned leaky windows. I do have a corner of the starboard window that appears to leak a little. Is there a gasket behind this, or would I just remove the window and use a bead of caulk around the window? Thanks again for your help!! jason
Joe and Dave, Thank you both for your responses. I hadn't thought of the gunwale strip and I bet it does need some work! You have also raised some additional questions: 1. How exactly do you get the cockpit drain out? I do suspect that this may be a problem since the external fitting appears to be old and brittle. 2. Joe mentioned an access plate. The previous owner installed one in the fuel locker to access the bolts on the motor bracket when he put on a new one. It is a round panel that i have seen on D&R marine's web site. Are you recommending putting one of these in the transom at the aft center of the cockpit? (below the tiller) How high up would this need to be and how big? 3. Dave mentioned leaky windows. I do have a corner of the starboard window that appears to leak a little. Is there a gasket behind this, or would I just remove the window and use a bead of caulk around the window? Thanks again for your help!! jason
Answers to more questions
Jason, You can get at the self bailing hose from the cockpit hatch on the Port side, but if it's as tough as mine to get at, I'd suggest installing a 6 inch Beckson deck plate with the screw on cover. Install it about mid way on the inside of the transom, from top to the bottom so that you can get at your gudgeons if you have to. Use silicon caulking for the deck plate. If your outlet fitting is bad, replace it and use a polysulfide caulking on that. The inlet fitting in the cockpit floor or sole, is probably a straight fitting like mine. I'm pretty sure that you can buy a 90 degree fitting in a marine store for that. Then all you need is a short piece of plastic hose to go in between the two fittings. As for the windows; If they are like mine, they are held on with screws and I don't remember any rubber gaskets on them when I re caulked mine. I think that I'd use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant on the windows too. The reason why I mentioned the gunwale molding is because there are a lot of screw holes around it. Some of them are bound to leak, and if you seal all the holes under that whole gunwale strip, you've eliminated a large trouble area. It's easier to take the gunwale strip off than the stanchions. You can do the gunwale by yourself, but you'll need another person to keep the bolts from turning while you loosen the nuts on the stanchion. The true test is with a water hose to see if it's still getting in, and if it is, you'll need to find out where it's coming in. Leaks can drive you crazy, but it isn't impossible to get rid of them if you find out where they are coming from. Joe
Jason, You can get at the self bailing hose from the cockpit hatch on the Port side, but if it's as tough as mine to get at, I'd suggest installing a 6 inch Beckson deck plate with the screw on cover. Install it about mid way on the inside of the transom, from top to the bottom so that you can get at your gudgeons if you have to. Use silicon caulking for the deck plate. If your outlet fitting is bad, replace it and use a polysulfide caulking on that. The inlet fitting in the cockpit floor or sole, is probably a straight fitting like mine. I'm pretty sure that you can buy a 90 degree fitting in a marine store for that. Then all you need is a short piece of plastic hose to go in between the two fittings. As for the windows; If they are like mine, they are held on with screws and I don't remember any rubber gaskets on them when I re caulked mine. I think that I'd use 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant on the windows too. The reason why I mentioned the gunwale molding is because there are a lot of screw holes around it. Some of them are bound to leak, and if you seal all the holes under that whole gunwale strip, you've eliminated a large trouble area. It's easier to take the gunwale strip off than the stanchions. You can do the gunwale by yourself, but you'll need another person to keep the bolts from turning while you loosen the nuts on the stanchion. The true test is with a water hose to see if it's still getting in, and if it is, you'll need to find out where it's coming in. Leaks can drive you crazy, but it isn't impossible to get rid of them if you find out where they are coming from. Joe
Cockpit Drain Access
The cockpit drain can be accessed through the Lazarette. It's not comfortable, but it can be done. I took it apart by myself but, as Joe pointed out, it takes two people to put it back together. I coerced (it cost me lunch) a fellow who sails with me sometimes that weighs about 50lbs less than me to crawl in there and the reinstall went quickly. I used the elbow like Joe described but if you can find a molded hose like I mentioned before, you will have two less connections to make which should make the job easier. The flanged fittings I bought have slots to use to keep them form turning -I think we used a putty knife to hold them still. We also used some sealant on the backside of the flange. I don't remember if it was Boat-Life or 3M, I have a tube of each at the boat. Under my boat's windows there a wide swath of black rubbery stuff that functions as a gasket, but the window wasn't stuck to it as though is was put together wet, so I don't know how all of that was done. It's possible that it started life as a gasket and has deformed over the years to the point where it looks like something applied by hand. To complicate matters, my boat is California-built and there may have been differences in how some things were done between the two plants. I'd be a little nervous about applying sealant directly since the windows would become next-to-impossible to remove later, should that be needed. Maybe appying talcum powder to the window before placing it against a bead of sealant? This might be question best answered by Rudy, who would know how it was done at the factory.
The cockpit drain can be accessed through the Lazarette. It's not comfortable, but it can be done. I took it apart by myself but, as Joe pointed out, it takes two people to put it back together. I coerced (it cost me lunch) a fellow who sails with me sometimes that weighs about 50lbs less than me to crawl in there and the reinstall went quickly. I used the elbow like Joe described but if you can find a molded hose like I mentioned before, you will have two less connections to make which should make the job easier. The flanged fittings I bought have slots to use to keep them form turning -I think we used a putty knife to hold them still. We also used some sealant on the backside of the flange. I don't remember if it was Boat-Life or 3M, I have a tube of each at the boat. Under my boat's windows there a wide swath of black rubbery stuff that functions as a gasket, but the window wasn't stuck to it as though is was put together wet, so I don't know how all of that was done. It's possible that it started life as a gasket and has deformed over the years to the point where it looks like something applied by hand. To complicate matters, my boat is California-built and there may have been differences in how some things were done between the two plants. I'd be a little nervous about applying sealant directly since the windows would become next-to-impossible to remove later, should that be needed. Maybe appying talcum powder to the window before placing it against a bead of sealant? This might be question best answered by Rudy, who would know how it was done at the factory.
Self bailing hose
Jason, On that self bailing hose; You probably have a straight Nylon fitting at the little well in the cockpit near your transom. My 222 has the same type of fittings too. Originally, the O'Day people installed a piece of plastic reinforced hose from this fitting and bent it in a 90 degree angle to go to the straight fitting the your stern. The only trouble with that is, the hose got kinked and always restricted the water flow from the cockpit. What I did was; I removed the old hose and bought a 90 degree nylon fitting and added a short piece of new hose to the top of the fitting and clamped it to the fitting. Then, I laid the fitting inside and got a measurment for the second hose, cut the hose and clamped it to the 90 degree fitting. When I was ready to install the hose, I put the clamps in place, and connected the hose to the stern outlet fitting first. Then, I lined up the short hose to the fitting in the cockpit floor, and used a 2 foot piece of strapping to push it on to the fitting using the inside of the hull to act as a fulcrum. Then I tightened the two remaining clamps. You'll have four clamps on it, but it will be easy to take off, if you ever have to remove it for some reason. If you're going to try to do the hook up from the cockpit hatch, make sure that someone is with you just in case you get stuck in the opening. I would definately install a deck plate on the inside of the transom, though. Joe
Jason, On that self bailing hose; You probably have a straight Nylon fitting at the little well in the cockpit near your transom. My 222 has the same type of fittings too. Originally, the O'Day people installed a piece of plastic reinforced hose from this fitting and bent it in a 90 degree angle to go to the straight fitting the your stern. The only trouble with that is, the hose got kinked and always restricted the water flow from the cockpit. What I did was; I removed the old hose and bought a 90 degree nylon fitting and added a short piece of new hose to the top of the fitting and clamped it to the fitting. Then, I laid the fitting inside and got a measurment for the second hose, cut the hose and clamped it to the 90 degree fitting. When I was ready to install the hose, I put the clamps in place, and connected the hose to the stern outlet fitting first. Then, I lined up the short hose to the fitting in the cockpit floor, and used a 2 foot piece of strapping to push it on to the fitting using the inside of the hull to act as a fulcrum. Then I tightened the two remaining clamps. You'll have four clamps on it, but it will be easy to take off, if you ever have to remove it for some reason. If you're going to try to do the hook up from the cockpit hatch, make sure that someone is with you just in case you get stuck in the opening. I would definately install a deck plate on the inside of the transom, though. Joe
No salt here!
Sounds yummy!!! Unfortunately, I am a mid-western sailor, so no salt. However, on pumping it out and then sponging the rest of the bilge dry, I found the water incredibly sudsy. So I'm pretty sure it came in from the top when I washed the boat. It could still be around the cockpit drain, so I will check that with the hose tomorrow. The other stanchon and window leaks are pretty small and wouldn't account for the accumulation of water that I had, but they still need to be fixed. Thanks for all of the advice!! Now I just have to get an extra pair of hands to help me fix the leaks! Jason
Sounds yummy!!! Unfortunately, I am a mid-western sailor, so no salt. However, on pumping it out and then sponging the rest of the bilge dry, I found the water incredibly sudsy. So I'm pretty sure it came in from the top when I washed the boat. It could still be around the cockpit drain, so I will check that with the hose tomorrow. The other stanchon and window leaks are pretty small and wouldn't account for the accumulation of water that I had, but they still need to be fixed. Thanks for all of the advice!! Now I just have to get an extra pair of hands to help me fix the leaks! Jason
Leaks possibly from hose
Jason, Years ago, I left my metal gasoline tank in my boat over the winter, and the tank rusted and leaked out of the self bailing hose. The gasoline ate a hole in my hose. It took a long time to get rid of the odor. I went out and bought a 6 gallon plastic gas tank that would fit in that small fuel compartment, and I now store my tank in the shed for the winter. It's possible that you could have a hose leak, too. I'm glad that I installed the deck plate because you can look right down in there with a flashlight and see this hose and both areas where the gudgeons bolt up. The hardest thing about installing the plate is cutting the hole. If you know someone in the trades who has a 6 inch hole saw that you can borrow it would make the job faster. I suppose that one could be rented. When I installed my deck plate, I drew my circle, and used a 2 inch hole saw on my drill and ran it slow. I made a series of holes inside the circle and removed the rest with a keyhole saw. Then I used a rasp bit and a drum sanding bit to finish it off. I drilled the holes for the screws and counter-sunk them a little to prevent the fiberglass and Gel coat from chipping when I installed the screws for the plate. It's kind of a dusty dirty job and you need a breathing respirator when you work around fiberglass dust. Also, there's a wire for the stern light in that space, so you have to be careful when you make the hole. If you're getting that much water in your bilge, it almost sounds like the self bailing hose is leaking. I'm going to start keeping a couple of corks on board for an emergency, just in case I ever have to use one to prevent water from coming into an outlet and threaten to sink my boat. Good luck. Joe
Jason, Years ago, I left my metal gasoline tank in my boat over the winter, and the tank rusted and leaked out of the self bailing hose. The gasoline ate a hole in my hose. It took a long time to get rid of the odor. I went out and bought a 6 gallon plastic gas tank that would fit in that small fuel compartment, and I now store my tank in the shed for the winter. It's possible that you could have a hose leak, too. I'm glad that I installed the deck plate because you can look right down in there with a flashlight and see this hose and both areas where the gudgeons bolt up. The hardest thing about installing the plate is cutting the hole. If you know someone in the trades who has a 6 inch hole saw that you can borrow it would make the job faster. I suppose that one could be rented. When I installed my deck plate, I drew my circle, and used a 2 inch hole saw on my drill and ran it slow. I made a series of holes inside the circle and removed the rest with a keyhole saw. Then I used a rasp bit and a drum sanding bit to finish it off. I drilled the holes for the screws and counter-sunk them a little to prevent the fiberglass and Gel coat from chipping when I installed the screws for the plate. It's kind of a dusty dirty job and you need a breathing respirator when you work around fiberglass dust. Also, there's a wire for the stern light in that space, so you have to be careful when you make the hole. If you're getting that much water in your bilge, it almost sounds like the self bailing hose is leaking. I'm going to start keeping a couple of corks on board for an emergency, just in case I ever have to use one to prevent water from coming into an outlet and threaten to sink my boat. Good luck. Joe
From Don Casey's book
Using a leaf blower, duct tape and plastic sheeting insert the blowing end in a ventilator or hatch opening. Close all other openings (hatch, seacock using duct tape to seal everything (don't leave the duct tape on more that a couple of hours). Start the blower and wait for 5 minutes for the pressure to build. Using a soapy sponge go around all the hardware. Anywhere you see bubbles, you have a deck leak.
Using a leaf blower, duct tape and plastic sheeting insert the blowing end in a ventilator or hatch opening. Close all other openings (hatch, seacock using duct tape to seal everything (don't leave the duct tape on more that a couple of hours). Start the blower and wait for 5 minutes for the pressure to build. Using a soapy sponge go around all the hardware. Anywhere you see bubbles, you have a deck leak.
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