Leaky Jabsco Discharge Elbow

[stevemac]

Hi Peggy,

In 2008 I performed a complete refit with a new Jabsco toilet, Shields Poly X hose, replaced the Hunter Aluminum Holding tank with a Ronco and enlarged the vent on my 1994 Hunter 35.5 All worked fine from the initial install until recently when I changed the Joker valve, now I cannot get a good seal at the discharge flange. The Shields hose is so stiff and hard to make a tight bend to adapt to the angle of the discharge flange it is putting downward pressure on the flange preventing it from sealing. I know it will work as it worked fine for 3 years when the toilet was installed (discharge flange installed at Jabsco factory). This only became an issue when the discharge flange was removed to change the Joker. I have cut a rubber washer from a flat sheet of pliable rubber and placed with the joker valve, that slowed it down however it still leaks. I thought about finding something to put under the Shields hose and try to put a permanent bend in it to match the angle of the discharge flange (60 degrees), as tough as that stuff is to bend I do not want to kink it.
I called Jabsco to see if they had a straight flange that would align with the hose and the hole through the bulkhead, I was told they do not.
If I am not able to form the hose to the angle of the discharge flange (I really do not want to do this as I want the Shields hose to be 100% of the run) I may have to put a piece of flexible hose about the last 2'.
Thanks in advance, any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Steve

 

[woodster]

i am not Peggy .......but i think on the hose you are supposed to have no less than a 8" radi in the bends.....that may help your problem some ......

regards

woody

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The person who installed your toilet 2 years ago is to blame

I'm not sure what you mean by "flange"...the only flange is the on the joker valve that creates the gasket which is the seal between the discharge fitting and pump housing. So I'm guessing that you really mean "discharge fitting."

Apparently the installer connected the hose to the toilet before dragging it off at an angle and left BARELY enough slack to prevent the hose from pulling the discharge fitting to one side...but not enough for you to work with. I see this all the time....and it's builders and yards who are the biggest offenders.

There shouldn't BE a tight bend in the hose....If the discharge fitting is a 90, it needs to be a straight fitting...if it's a straight, it should be a 90 or a 45.

But before I can tell you how to solve it I need more information...the model of your toilet, so I can see what's ACTUALLY available from Jabsco that'll fit it...and also more detail about which fitting you do have and the direction the hose needs to go.

 

[stevemac]

Peggy Here is a link to the Jabsco manual that shows the parts breakdown on the last page (page 9) http://www.ittflowcontrol.com/files/itemdoc142681.pdf
Attached is a pic of the old toilet (identical) that I have in my garage.

Jabsco calls this the discharge elbow, I have the old toilet here at home, measuring the angle of the discharge elbow relative to the floor, the elbow is at a 45. I called Jabsco a couple of weeks ago to see if they had a straight discharge elbow and was told they did not. After explaining the leak to them, they only offered to change the joker valve again to ensure the rubber was pliable bettering the chances for a good seal from the flange to the base of the pump.

Thanks

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

That's very interesting, but doesn't answer my questions...

Although your furnishing a link the manual for your toilet does provide the answer to which Jabsco model.

I still don't know where you need to aim the hose! The one in your photo aims it toward the ceiling at 45 degree angle...if you replace it with the straight, that'll aim it toward the floor at a 45 degree angle. I'm pretty sure that neither direction is the one you want it go it, but you don't seem to want to tell me where you DO want it to go (have you ever considered a career as a politician?).

Are you aware that the fitting rotates 360 degrees? Would rotating it solve your problem? The drawings on page 3 in the Jabsco "manual" show a vented loop in the discharge line...if your tank is more than about 6' from the toilet or it's an uphill run, installing a vented loop as shown--which might require additional hose--would solve TWO problems: 1. You'd only have to pump long enough to clear the top of the loop...gravity will do the rest, reducing effort and flush water...and maybe help to prevent backflow from the tank when the boat is heeled. 2. Relieve the stress on the discharge fitting.

I find it hard to believe that Jabsco doesn't offer a straight discharge fitting...but otoh, the design of that toilet actually doesn't allow a straight fitting...so maybe not. I'm checking with someone to find out if any other make/model straight fitting will fit a Jabsco...won't know till tomorrow.

There is another possibility...check out the Sealand component fittings... SeaLand Hoses and Fittings ... they may have one that you can cement onto the Jabsco fitting.

Without knowing exactly how you are trying to route the hose, the only thing I'm 100% certain iis the wrong solution adding rubber washers or bending the hose.

Why did you use the Shields hose anyway? It costs twice as much as Trident 101/102, which have been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure...how much better "guarantee" could you ask for, no matter what kind of warranty Shields puts on theirs?? If you do have to add some hose, go with Trident 101...but although you CAN put a tight bend in it, don't even THINK of doing that!

 

[stevemac]

Re: That's very interesting, but doesn't answer my questions

I will need to measure the height of the bulk head hole relative to the floor where the toilet mounts, if you have a Hunter I suspect the factory drilled the holes all the same height on many of these boats. Rotating the elbow will not provide any relief due to the hole the hose passes through is directly behind the toilet, not off to the side. I need this to shoot straight back. Where the discharge elbow mounts to the pump is pointing down about 15 degrees so if I could find a about 20 or even a 30 degree discharge elbow that would work. The elbow provided by Jabsco that came with the toilet is about a 60 degrees, the net after mounting to the pump is 45 degrees

 

[captstu]

Clean hoses before replacing Joker Valve

Steve,

I recently changed out my Jabsco (twist lock) Joker valve because the old one had developed tricuspid regurgitation - that is, it leaked back into the bowl.

Prior to the change out, I treated the head and hoses with Hydrochloric Acid - to clean, remove the buildup, and sort of sterilize the surfaces. The change out worked flawlessly, no smell, no leak, and no back flow. You might try the procedure now without using a new joker valve.

1. Obtain 1 gallon of muriatic acid (concentrated Hydrochloric Acid) from Home Depot, a pool supply, or any concrete supply house.

2, Wear gloves, eye protection, and open all the hatches on your boat. If ventilation is still poor, use a fan.

3. Set your "y" valves to directly go overboard in a legal discharge location. If this isn't possible, set your holding tank to immediately dump in a legal location or remove the deck valve - it will discharge gas and the accumulated years of smell.

4. Flush with a small amount of fresh water.

5. Introduce about 1 cup of HCl and get out of the head.

6. Pump this out with no water inlet. Repeat 5 and 6 until about 1 quart of HCl is used or no smell or gas remains.

7. Introduce 1/2 bowl (pour it around the bowl to clean the surfaces), let it sit 20 seconds or so and pump it out. Do this until no smell, stains, or gas is noted coming from the discharge.

It should take near 1 gallon of HCl to do this if it hasn't been done for 3 years or more of heavy use.

This can be repeated every 3 months or so.

I've done this for years on many non-electric brands and a few electric brands - no damage.

The hose is now clean, about its original flexibility, and will permit sealing.

I treat both sides of the joker valve and the outlet flange with lithium grease or Lubiplate to make the parts slide together easier.

If ANY rust is present on the hose clamps, I replace them.

Happy flushing. /Stu

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Your photo shows why joker valves require replacement

Which is why I asked you for permission to add that photo to my files.

The valve on the right can no longer close completely...it's worn out. The older it gets, the bigger the gap will become. And a joker valve that does still close tightly is essential to a manual toilet. Here's why:

JOKER VALVE 101

Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.

Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been than at least 2 years years since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank...and eventully they just won't get there any more.

Marine toilets have moving parts that require maintenance. PREVENTIVE maintenance is called that because it PREVENTS problems that have to be fixed. You get to do PREVENTIVE maintenance on YOUR terms, when it's convenient for YOU...unlike repairs, which NEVER are needed at a convenient time.

All of this said, none of it addresses THIS problem, which has nothing to do with the joker valve, but is a problem with a toilet discharge fitting that cannot be aimed where it needs to go or replaced with a fitting that could.