Just curious on how best to seal the toe rails and hand rails. Also, I bought 2 new teak hand rails that are not stock but very close. How would you best install them, since they are straight and need to bend in an ark to line up with the holes.
Leaks on Oday 23
- Thread starter Gnageyj
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The first wood screw on one of my toe rails on my O'Day 222 popped up last year and the bung had come out. As a result it caused a leak in that small section of the bow behind that little bulkhead in the V birth section of the boat. I had no idea that it was leaking at the time becuse I had a hooded sweat shirt in there that I hadn't touched in a while until I went to grab it one day and discovered it was soaking wet. To make a long story short though, I was able to stop the leak without removing the whole toe rail by using a screw driver to prop it up enough to slide a Popsicle stick between the Teak and the deck with some 3-M 5200 on it.
In answer to your question, maybe you can steam the wood somehow and place it in a gig that you can make. You may be able to Mickey Mouse a steam container out of a length of 2" PVC and use some steam from a kettle of water. Once you get the right curve needed you can let it dry out and see if it still holds the shape needed.
When you're ready to install the toe rails, it might be a good idea to screw it into the deck for a dry run. Then apply some masking tape to the deck close to the toe rail on both sides. This will make the caulking job less messy. Then unscrew the toe rail and I would apply some 3-M 5200 caulking adhesive sealant under the toe rail and especially under each of the screws that go into the deck. It will seal out moisture and also adhere the Teak to the deck. Don't use silicone for this job.
You'll need to glue the bungs in place making sure that the wood grain in the bung is going in the same direction as the wood grain in the toe rail.
The next day you can either saw of the excess bung or use a sharp wood chisel by cutting it about 1/16" above the rail and finishing it off with sandpaper.
Choice of glue
Use 4200 or 4000 or equivalent. Or use NP-1 roofing sealant. NP-1 is a one part urothane with other ingredients that allow fexibility.
For manufacturers description: "Sonneborn NP 1 Polyurethane Sealant is a one-component high-performance gun-grade moisture-curing polyurethane sealant designed for a wide range of sealing and caulking applications in active exterior joints.
With 800% elongation, 350 psi tensile and +/- 25% joint movement capability, NP-1 handles most every exterior application. NP-1™ requires no mixing and typically bonds to many materials without a primer, including concrete and masonry. NP1 dries with a smooth finish and is paintable. Good for above water line sealing and cheap to boot. Ed K
Do not use 5200. The stuff is permanent to gel coat and fiber glass. If you have to repair again, it is major hassle.
Use 4200 or 4000 or equivalent. Or use NP-1 roofing sealant. NP-1 is a one part urothane with other ingredients that allow fexibility.
For manufacturers description: "Sonneborn NP 1 Polyurethane Sealant is a one-component high-performance gun-grade moisture-curing polyurethane sealant designed for a wide range of sealing and caulking applications in active exterior joints.
With 800% elongation, 350 psi tensile and +/- 25% joint movement capability, NP-1 handles most every exterior application. NP-1™ requires no mixing and typically bonds to many materials without a primer, including concrete and masonry. NP1 dries with a smooth finish and is paintable. Good for above water line sealing and cheap to boot. Ed K
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whereas that it is true the 3-M 5200 is a stronger adhesive than the 3-M 4200 and the fast cure 4000 which is my favorite adhesive caulking, if my toe rail had been adhered to the deck with the 3-M 5200, it may have never popped up and it's possible that I would have never have had to reattach it back in the first place.
Last year as I had mentioned in previous threads, I hit a red buoy on the river which was "my bad," and I believe that this bang on the bow of my boat was the direct cause of my toe rail popping out which created a leak through the screw hole in the fiberglass.
If by chance you ever need to remove a toe rail or even centerboard keel wedges that have been adhered with any of the above caulkings, you can use heat from a hair drier coupled with a heated putty knife blade from a torch. It's no different than the techniques used by luthiers in removing the necks from guitars which are adhered with various types of hyde glues.
"This old boat" shows a toe rail being installed to curvature by using a block to pull the trailing edge of the toe rail into line with the curve while gluing and screwing. I think my first try, when I try, will be to take my old one off, use it to make a jig, then employ Capt. joes' steam chamber method. As for a jig, possibly try using peg board and pegs, which would allow adjustments and multiple steamings?RBone said:
When I replaced the toe rails on my 1983 O'Day 23, I asked Rudy at D&R Marine (from whom I bought the toe rails) for advice. He suggested drilling the holes using the old toe rails as templates and then installing the new ones from the middle out toward the ends. I followed that advice and it worked very well. I began by screwing in the middle screw for each toe rail (there were four)--after putting caulking on first (I used fast cure 4000). Then I would screw in the next screw forward followed by the next screw aft--and so on, until I came to the last screw at each end of the toe rail. What I found was that the rail was easy to bend in the way. I didn't have to steam the rails to get them to bend, although I did this on a warm, sunny day when the temperature was near 80.
By the way, when I rebed my grab rails, I used the old ones, so I don't have advice about bending those. They're obviously much thicker than the toe rails.
Good luck.
Bob
By the way, when I rebed my grab rails, I used the old ones, so I don't have advice about bending those. They're obviously much thicker than the toe rails.
Good luck.
Bob
5/8" wide and about half an inch high. So they're pretty thin, which made them easier to bend.
Interesting thread. I am actually in the middle of replacing my handrails. The advice I was given by my local WM was to use the 5200 adhesive, but now I'm starting to second-guess myself. He mentioned that if you ever try to remove 5200, you will destroy the teak and/or fiberglass. Has anyone here personally tried this method of removal? (disclaimer: I don't plan on removing the handrails, per se, but the fact that I have to replace them proves that they will not outlast the boat)
I don't understand the need for a permanent adhesive for the handrails or toe rails or for any replaceable part on the boat. Another possibility is Butyl tape. I've been using it since reading about on the 'Ask All Sailors' forum, with good results.
Rich
Rich
I understood the need Rich when I reached for my pull-over hooded sweatshirt and discovered that it was soaking wet. I'd have never known that I had water coming in from under the toe rail in the bow. I seldom ever put my hand in that little cubby hole. If left unattended for any length of time my boat would have core rot on the forward deck.
Also, I look at it this way; The toe rail on my boat is held on by 3/4" wood screws which in my opinion is very inadequate for a 3/4" strip of wood that can be hit by someone's foot. I want all the holding power I can get on those.
So far I've been lucky in that I've been able to catch every leak in time and I haven't had to repair rotting core. Now, if I can only keep from running into those buoys. They're like magnets don't sha know.
Joe
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