Need ideas to stop water coming in through stantions. A classic problem on Oday. Tried silicone caulk but it did not hold well enough. Next tried home made rubber gasket, but it too leaks. What next?
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Jim,
This is my thought on this. I hope it makes sense. O'Day cored the decks on the 272 (and many others).If the stanchion has ever leaked, the core becomes flexible. If the stanchion is flexed, the deck moves thus compromising the seal. First, I would not use silicone. Second the only correct way to fix a leak is to rebed. I would use a polysufide like 3M 4000 or 4200. third none of these sealants work well when the application is to thin. When I rebed a fitting, I counter sink the deck slightly and never let the bolt/ machine screw turn when installing. Turn the nut only and only apply the sealant between two CLEAN surfaces. If this does not work and there is still to much flex in the deck. Remove the fitting, Drill a 3/8" hole thru your old hole. Take an 8 penny finish nail and put a 90 degree bend on the last 1/4" of the point. Chuck the bent nail ( remember all the safety rules for using power tools because you are not going to use any of them here) into a dremel tool. Slowly remove the core from between the inner and outer fiberglass deck/interior liner. What you are trying to do ( Pictures are so much easier) is leave the 3/8" hole but remove the core inside the hole so that the diameter of the removed core is about 1/2 to 3/4". Tape the inside of the hole and fill the hole and core areas with epoxy. Then redrill the 1/4" hole thru the center and remount the stanchion. This solid epoxy will keep the deck from flexing at the fasteners and thus have a better seal. The rubber gasket may keep water from under the stanchion but does not seal the holes. It is the bolt hole from the outside that needs to be sealed. r.w.landau ps, if there is any sign of cracking in the gelcoat around the stanchion base, do the epoxy no question.
This is my thought on this. I hope it makes sense. O'Day cored the decks on the 272 (and many others).If the stanchion has ever leaked, the core becomes flexible. If the stanchion is flexed, the deck moves thus compromising the seal. First, I would not use silicone. Second the only correct way to fix a leak is to rebed. I would use a polysufide like 3M 4000 or 4200. third none of these sealants work well when the application is to thin. When I rebed a fitting, I counter sink the deck slightly and never let the bolt/ machine screw turn when installing. Turn the nut only and only apply the sealant between two CLEAN surfaces. If this does not work and there is still to much flex in the deck. Remove the fitting, Drill a 3/8" hole thru your old hole. Take an 8 penny finish nail and put a 90 degree bend on the last 1/4" of the point. Chuck the bent nail ( remember all the safety rules for using power tools because you are not going to use any of them here) into a dremel tool. Slowly remove the core from between the inner and outer fiberglass deck/interior liner. What you are trying to do ( Pictures are so much easier) is leave the 3/8" hole but remove the core inside the hole so that the diameter of the removed core is about 1/2 to 3/4". Tape the inside of the hole and fill the hole and core areas with epoxy. Then redrill the 1/4" hole thru the center and remount the stanchion. This solid epoxy will keep the deck from flexing at the fasteners and thus have a better seal. The rubber gasket may keep water from under the stanchion but does not seal the holes. It is the bolt hole from the outside that needs to be sealed. r.w.landau ps, if there is any sign of cracking in the gelcoat around the stanchion base, do the epoxy no question.
Sealant
R.W., Would you also recommend 3M 4000 or 4200 for sealing holes in the deck? For example, I have small holes in the deck from old toe rails and blocks that were removed, and whatever sealant was used to plug the holes isn't keeping rainwater out. I need to fix those leaks in addition to a stanchion leak like Jim has. Eric
R.W., Would you also recommend 3M 4000 or 4200 for sealing holes in the deck? For example, I have small holes in the deck from old toe rails and blocks that were removed, and whatever sealant was used to plug the holes isn't keeping rainwater out. I need to fix those leaks in addition to a stanchion leak like Jim has. Eric
Have the same problem -Rudy suggested
Jim - I have the same problem and am in the process of fixing. I agree with all RW's comments - he is a regular poster to this site and has always offered great advice and suggestions. I stopped by Rudy's place in Assonet the other week and he suggested that a thin gasket be used when rebedding stancions. O'Day changed to this in latter boats because the attachment plate, at the bottom of the stancion is welded and is never flat. I have some 1/16th inch gasket material and will use that, with some 4200 when I rebed mine in the next few weeks. Please re-post after you do this and give us an update on what you did and how it worked. James
Jim - I have the same problem and am in the process of fixing. I agree with all RW's comments - he is a regular poster to this site and has always offered great advice and suggestions. I stopped by Rudy's place in Assonet the other week and he suggested that a thin gasket be used when rebedding stancions. O'Day changed to this in latter boats because the attachment plate, at the bottom of the stancion is welded and is never flat. I have some 1/16th inch gasket material and will use that, with some 4200 when I rebed mine in the next few weeks. Please re-post after you do this and give us an update on what you did and how it worked. James
Eric, holes in the deck..
If you are not going to fill them with epoxy or gel coat, use 4000 or 4200 and install a screw/ bolt in the old hole and set it in 4000 or 4200. This works better any thing. Sometimes epoxy or polyester resin will shrink and the patch will leak. The bolt or screw is almost a sure seal. r.w.landau
If you are not going to fill them with epoxy or gel coat, use 4000 or 4200 and install a screw/ bolt in the old hole and set it in 4000 or 4200. This works better any thing. Sometimes epoxy or polyester resin will shrink and the patch will leak. The bolt or screw is almost a sure seal. r.w.landau
Stachion gasket
Well I purchased a pvc rubber like material about 3/16 inch thick from local hardware store. It still leaks. So will now attempt RW's suggestion of routing out bad core material and filling with epoxy then 4000 or 4200 to seal and not turning the bolts but only the nut.
Well I purchased a pvc rubber like material about 3/16 inch thick from local hardware store. It still leaks. So will now attempt RW's suggestion of routing out bad core material and filling with epoxy then 4000 or 4200 to seal and not turning the bolts but only the nut.
Gasket...
I would not use the gasket. It just gives something else a chance to move. I would just be very carefull about installation. I will try to walk you through it. If you chose to epoxy ( I think I have explained that)or not. Counter sink the top of the hole in the deck. (This should allow for about 1/8" of sealant next to the bolt.) Insert all four machine screws into the stanchion base. Apply about 1/4" bead of 4000 or 4200 around each machine screw on the bottom of the stanchion base.( there should be no sealant on the end of the machine screw that gets the nut) A little extra wouldn't hurt. Remember it is the bolt you are trying to seal not the base. Carefully hold the base over it's position and slowly let it down in place while making sure the bolts are going into the holes. Two people can do this without to much trouble. Then one person should go inside and install the backing plate and the nuts. The top person should hold the screw driver on the nut that is being tightened. As the base plate is tightened, it pushes the 4000/4200 into the countersink, thus sealing the bolt. The Ideal way to do this is to put shims in the base plate at the bolt locations. snug to the shims. Allow the sealant to set. Remove the shims, and then do the final tightening. This not only gives you a seal around the bolt but also acts as an "O" ring seal. The shim should be less than 1/8" thick. I have done this both ways and both work. Normally time is the factor and it is easier to just do the final tightening during installation. It would take alot of movement to break this seal. You may even want to try this before the epoxy plug. The only reason I would not hesitate to do the epoxy is if the deck shows a crack around the outside edge of the stanchion base plate. r.w.landau
I would not use the gasket. It just gives something else a chance to move. I would just be very carefull about installation. I will try to walk you through it. If you chose to epoxy ( I think I have explained that)or not. Counter sink the top of the hole in the deck. (This should allow for about 1/8" of sealant next to the bolt.) Insert all four machine screws into the stanchion base. Apply about 1/4" bead of 4000 or 4200 around each machine screw on the bottom of the stanchion base.( there should be no sealant on the end of the machine screw that gets the nut) A little extra wouldn't hurt. Remember it is the bolt you are trying to seal not the base. Carefully hold the base over it's position and slowly let it down in place while making sure the bolts are going into the holes. Two people can do this without to much trouble. Then one person should go inside and install the backing plate and the nuts. The top person should hold the screw driver on the nut that is being tightened. As the base plate is tightened, it pushes the 4000/4200 into the countersink, thus sealing the bolt. The Ideal way to do this is to put shims in the base plate at the bolt locations. snug to the shims. Allow the sealant to set. Remove the shims, and then do the final tightening. This not only gives you a seal around the bolt but also acts as an "O" ring seal. The shim should be less than 1/8" thick. I have done this both ways and both work. Normally time is the factor and it is easier to just do the final tightening during installation. It would take alot of movement to break this seal. You may even want to try this before the epoxy plug. The only reason I would not hesitate to do the epoxy is if the deck shows a crack around the outside edge of the stanchion base plate. r.w.landau
Leaking Stanchions
R.W. - Not completely clear on "counter sink" the deck in your last detail of rebedding the stanchion. Do you mean to put an angular cut in the deck surface? or drill a hole in the deck larger than the existing bolt hole and if so, should it go through the entire deck or just the top glass layer? By the way, very much appreciate your knowledge on this problem that I have wrestled with for a few years now.
R.W. - Not completely clear on "counter sink" the deck in your last detail of rebedding the stanchion. Do you mean to put an angular cut in the deck surface? or drill a hole in the deck larger than the existing bolt hole and if so, should it go through the entire deck or just the top glass layer? By the way, very much appreciate your knowledge on this problem that I have wrestled with for a few years now.
Jim,
A countersink is used mostly in carpentry. I am sure you have seen screws with "v" shaped heads. A countersink is the drill bit that makes the "v" shape for the screw. Don't over countersink! you will end up with a big hole into the core. I believe the bolts are 1/4" for the stanchions. If you buy 1 1/4" flat head bolt or screw, that is the shape you want in the deck. This explaination is not the best and if you still don't get, ask again. If nothing else I can post a picture. r.w.landau
A countersink is used mostly in carpentry. I am sure you have seen screws with "v" shaped heads. A countersink is the drill bit that makes the "v" shape for the screw. Don't over countersink! you will end up with a big hole into the core. I believe the bolts are 1/4" for the stanchions. If you buy 1 1/4" flat head bolt or screw, that is the shape you want in the deck. This explaination is not the best and if you still don't get, ask again. If nothing else I can post a picture. r.w.landau
stanchions leaking
R.W. - OK I do get it now. Have seen counter sink cutting tools that cut the angular cut to provide a bed for a flat head screw. Will remove stanchions, examine the existing hole and core to see if there is any rot and softness and cracking of glass surface. If not will proceed with countersink approach using 4000 or 4200 3M and let you know how it turns out.
R.W. - OK I do get it now. Have seen counter sink cutting tools that cut the angular cut to provide a bed for a flat head screw. Will remove stanchions, examine the existing hole and core to see if there is any rot and softness and cracking of glass surface. If not will proceed with countersink approach using 4000 or 4200 3M and let you know how it turns out.
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