I have a 1980 27 Hunter. The boat was surveyed on the ground three weeks ago. The survey found no problems with the hull and I didn't notice anything either when I made a visual inspection. When the boat is operated under sail there is no problem. The bilge stays dry. When the boat is operated under power with all through hull fittings except cooling water closed, water seeps in from the three aft keel bolts at a rate of about 1 gallon every two hours. It starts with a small amount of flow and then increases in volume after about 10 minutes. I have three questions: One, has anyone else experienced this? Two, what is the recommended repair? Three, is there any problem with just living with this for the remainder of the season and attacking it over the winter? Thanks!
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Gallon
A gallon every two hours? Only when then engine is running? That seems like a lot of water to me. I had some continuous seepage at two keel bolts in our '77 H27, but it was more like a cup every two weeks. I'd be very concerned that the water would start coming in when NOT motoring. And start coming in at an even faster rate. What shape are your bilge pumps in? Have you tried tightening the nuts? Ideally, that should be done while on the hard, but you might see some improvement anyway.
A gallon every two hours? Only when then engine is running? That seems like a lot of water to me. I had some continuous seepage at two keel bolts in our '77 H27, but it was more like a cup every two weeks. I'd be very concerned that the water would start coming in when NOT motoring. And start coming in at an even faster rate. What shape are your bilge pumps in? Have you tried tightening the nuts? Ideally, that should be done while on the hard, but you might see some improvement anyway.
Are you sure it's keel bolts?
You have an inboard engine! Are you sure that it is NOT the packing on the shaft or a leak on the engine? Maybe you can consult with the previous owner and ask them some questions.
You have an inboard engine! Are you sure that it is NOT the packing on the shaft or a leak on the engine? Maybe you can consult with the previous owner and ask them some questions.
It's definitely the keel bolts
The stuffing box was just redone and all through hulls are closed. We have absolutely confirmed that the water is coming in from the keel bolts. The previous owner "swears" that there was never a problem with leaks.
The stuffing box was just redone and all through hulls are closed. We have absolutely confirmed that the water is coming in from the keel bolts. The previous owner "swears" that there was never a problem with leaks.
Keel bolts
Why would the keel bolts only leak when the engine is running? Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Why would the keel bolts only leak when the engine is running? Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Leak hell, the boat is sinking.
I'd have to agree with you Dan. This does not make any sense. I vote for checking the "newly packed" stuffing box. This is what was "redone" and is probably the problem. Wonder if they used the correct size material?
I'd have to agree with you Dan. This does not make any sense. I vote for checking the "newly packed" stuffing box. This is what was "redone" and is probably the problem. Wonder if they used the correct size material?
Take a look
I suspect what's happening is that the stuffing box leak is running quickly into the bilge, giving the illusion that it's the keel bolts. (1) I agree that if it's only happening when the motor is running, than it's got to be the stuffing box. Simply sit down there and watch while someone else drives the boat under power. Then tighten accordingly. By the way, there are 480 posts on "stuffing box" in the Archives if you want to do your own troubleshooting or replacement. (2) If indeed it's the keel bolts, start by drying the bilge thoroughly and then observe while under power. If they leak, tighten them with a lock washer. But don't overdo it or you could strip the bolt. I have a vexing leak on my 29.5 that appears to be coming from the bilge but can't figure it out. I'm told it could be from wash-and-slosh over the gunwales and through the sides. Who knows. Boats leak, but not at a gallon an hour.
I suspect what's happening is that the stuffing box leak is running quickly into the bilge, giving the illusion that it's the keel bolts. (1) I agree that if it's only happening when the motor is running, than it's got to be the stuffing box. Simply sit down there and watch while someone else drives the boat under power. Then tighten accordingly. By the way, there are 480 posts on "stuffing box" in the Archives if you want to do your own troubleshooting or replacement. (2) If indeed it's the keel bolts, start by drying the bilge thoroughly and then observe while under power. If they leak, tighten them with a lock washer. But don't overdo it or you could strip the bolt. I have a vexing leak on my 29.5 that appears to be coming from the bilge but can't figure it out. I'm told it could be from wash-and-slosh over the gunwales and through the sides. Who knows. Boats leak, but not at a gallon an hour.
It's not the stuffing box and it's only under pwr.
We have watched the stuffing box and it is definitely not coming from there. We have also sailed for hours with no leaks at all. It only happens to the three aft keel bolts under power.
We have watched the stuffing box and it is definitely not coming from there. We have also sailed for hours with no leaks at all. It only happens to the three aft keel bolts under power.
Vibration?
It's too much water regardless of where it's coming from. Only thing I can think of is that the vibration from the engine is causing the keel bolts to vibrate and let in water in the process. If they are that loose then they probably aren't doing a heck of a lot to hold the keel on the boat. Was the boat ever run hard aground at some time in the past? Was there any evidence of a grounding on the keel (dents, etc.) or on the supporting structures (cracks, etc.)? If tighting them doesn't help (no more than 80 or 90 ft-lbs on the torque wrench), I'd have the boat hauled, pronto.
It's too much water regardless of where it's coming from. Only thing I can think of is that the vibration from the engine is causing the keel bolts to vibrate and let in water in the process. If they are that loose then they probably aren't doing a heck of a lot to hold the keel on the boat. Was the boat ever run hard aground at some time in the past? Was there any evidence of a grounding on the keel (dents, etc.) or on the supporting structures (cracks, etc.)? If tighting them doesn't help (no more than 80 or 90 ft-lbs on the torque wrench), I'd have the boat hauled, pronto.
Keel bolts
OK, Assuming you have really studied the situation, and thinking way outside the box....does it leak under power at slow speeds, or does it only happen when moving fast under power. I ask, because the only thing I can think of that could be different under power might (I said might) be speed through the water. Could there be enough difference in hydrodynamic force at some point in the structure to open up enough to allow the keel bolts to leak? Does it only leak under power at high speeds? This sounds like it is worth a haul-out to inspect the area where the keel attaches to the hull. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
OK, Assuming you have really studied the situation, and thinking way outside the box....does it leak under power at slow speeds, or does it only happen when moving fast under power. I ask, because the only thing I can think of that could be different under power might (I said might) be speed through the water. Could there be enough difference in hydrodynamic force at some point in the structure to open up enough to allow the keel bolts to leak? Does it only leak under power at high speeds? This sounds like it is worth a haul-out to inspect the area where the keel attaches to the hull. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Talk To Surveyor
Since you're positive the leak is from the keel bolts a talk with the (your) surveyor is in order. A leak through the keel bolts requires the water to enter through a crack at the keel-hull joint and such a crack should have been picked up by a survey. The symptoms really point to an engine related problem, but who knows. Perhaps the vibration of the engine causes enough movement at the keel-hull joint to break the water tension and allow the water to flow easier. Check the tightness of the nuts on the keel bolts. A deep socket will be needed and it may be necessary to make one up specially for the purpose. I bought a 3/4-inch drive socket and cut the drive end off from the socket end and welded a section of pipe in between in order to clear the keel bolt height. An open end box wrench wouldn't work because of a lack of swing room. Give a call to Hunter for help with the required torque. If you torque the bolts up to spec the leak should either slow down or stop altogether. If there is no crack between the keel and the hull then I don't see how it could be a keel bolt problem. A diver could inspect the keel-hull joint for a crack.
Since you're positive the leak is from the keel bolts a talk with the (your) surveyor is in order. A leak through the keel bolts requires the water to enter through a crack at the keel-hull joint and such a crack should have been picked up by a survey. The symptoms really point to an engine related problem, but who knows. Perhaps the vibration of the engine causes enough movement at the keel-hull joint to break the water tension and allow the water to flow easier. Check the tightness of the nuts on the keel bolts. A deep socket will be needed and it may be necessary to make one up specially for the purpose. I bought a 3/4-inch drive socket and cut the drive end off from the socket end and welded a section of pipe in between in order to clear the keel bolt height. An open end box wrench wouldn't work because of a lack of swing room. Give a call to Hunter for help with the required torque. If you torque the bolts up to spec the leak should either slow down or stop altogether. If there is no crack between the keel and the hull then I don't see how it could be a keel bolt problem. A diver could inspect the keel-hull joint for a crack.
Relationship to speed
Daniel, it's not likely to be related to speed -- the H27 goes faster under sail than it does under power and Bob says it doesn't leak when under sail. Whatever it turns out to be, you better log back on and tell us!!!!
Daniel, it's not likely to be related to speed -- the H27 goes faster under sail than it does under power and Bob says it doesn't leak when under sail. Whatever it turns out to be, you better log back on and tell us!!!!
Had a simolar problem on my 37C...
I had almost the same exact problem you described. No water when standing or sailing but water around the last three keel bolts while under way with power. I traced the problem to leaking cockpit scuppers at the water line. These are glassed in and the hoses from the cockpit screw onto them. The one tube on the STBD side had a small crack in it and when you where under power the stern end of the boat squated just enough to get it under water and it leaked. While sailing the drive force was forward and no leak, while standing the scupper was about an inch above the water-line and no leak. It only occured while motoring. My solution was to grind them off and use 1 1/2 bronze thru hulls in thier place... Problem solved! Hope yours turns out to be the same thing as it's really an easy fix. It's hard to believe that you have leaking keel bolts with the symtoms you describe unless the boat was severly grounded and then it should leak all the time. Good luck! Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
I had almost the same exact problem you described. No water when standing or sailing but water around the last three keel bolts while under way with power. I traced the problem to leaking cockpit scuppers at the water line. These are glassed in and the hoses from the cockpit screw onto them. The one tube on the STBD side had a small crack in it and when you where under power the stern end of the boat squated just enough to get it under water and it leaked. While sailing the drive force was forward and no leak, while standing the scupper was about an inch above the water-line and no leak. It only occured while motoring. My solution was to grind them off and use 1 1/2 bronze thru hulls in thier place... Problem solved! Hope yours turns out to be the same thing as it's really an easy fix. It's hard to believe that you have leaking keel bolts with the symtoms you describe unless the boat was severly grounded and then it should leak all the time. Good luck! Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
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