LBA

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Aug 23, 2009
361
Hunter 30 Middle River MD
Peggy, pulled the old head today and to my surprise everything went very well. The toilet unbolted without damaging hands, toilet or boat, then took the bowl off and that's where the story went south.

Got out the template I had printed out for the bowl pattern from the website's store and mine was considerably smaller than what the template indicated. I would guess the pattern is an inch smaller between bolts which which raises the question in my mind are there different patterns between the compact and full size models and if so where do you get a template for the compact.

Also does anyone know if the template is accurate in terms of its scale. I know it gives the actual demensions but can't say I checked them while trying to see if the bowl lined up.

If not I guess I will be looking for a whole new toilet.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,946
- - LIttle Rock
I'd guess it's your template that's off

'Cuz unless your old toilet is some arcane foreign brand, if the mounting bolt pattern is the same 4-bolt +, your bowl WILL fit the PH LBA.

I'd bet real money that your printer scaled the template drawing to fit the page. Take your drawing to any boat store that has toilets and compare it to other bowls.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,199
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Also does anyone know if the template is accurate in terms of its scale.
Peggy's suggestion is more than likely..... eliminate page scaling in your printer setup, and "scale to fit" on the print properties' effects page. Then double check the measurements.
 
Aug 23, 2009
361
Hunter 30 Middle River MD
Both good points the template also has the dimensions on it so I plan to check with a ruler and a set of dividers. Even though it won't be precise if it's within a few fractions of the dimension I will take the difference as being an error in measurement or tolerance issues. The holes are large enough and the screws in the existing base small enough that up to an 1/8 inch shouldn't matter in any one direction.

Thanks everyone.
 
Aug 23, 2009
361
Hunter 30 Middle River MD
Did the check so yes it was a scaling issue somewhere between computer and printer driver software that scaled it to the page.

Now Peggy next questions I know you have said the vent line should run vertically to the vent. Mine does a couple of twists and turns but is mostly vertical so I don't think that is a problem. The exisiting hose seems to be one inch in outer diameter, when you say a one inch hose are you referring to Outer or Inner Diameter, if inner I will need to figure out if I can change the fitting on the tank. Also I know the waste lines should be Trident but what about the vent line itself? Final question for this round, the vent is just below the toe rail so assuming the boat is healed over it could be submerged at least some of the time. The line currently has been secured so that it makes a U at the top going up above the water line before actually connecting to the vent. Assume this is to prevent water from pouring in if the boat is healed far enough.

I lied two more questions, the line from the Y valve to the through-hull is not continuous, it has a coupling where it passes through a bulkhead and then it also has a section under the sink that appears to be a brass inverted U which is anchored to the top of the vanitity which is then connected by a flexible line back to the the through-hull. I assume this may also serve the function of raising the line above the waterline.

Many thanks to all for you help.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,199
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
The vent only goes to the holding tank.... so assuming the holding tank isn't leaking, that would be the limit of water intrusion.... but it sounds like that is addressed with the above deck loop. I don't have an anti-siphon on my vent...not sure you need one. Then again, I don't put the rail down in the water if I can help it....rain is a more common issue.

The brass fitting under the vanity could also be an anti-siphon valve.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,946
- - LIttle Rock
No...that's NOT what I"ve said

I know you have said the vent line should run vertically to the vent.

That's just the opposite of what I've said. The vent line needs to be as short, straight and HORIZONTAL as possible. Try to avoid a rise sharper than a 45 degree angle. So your vertical vent line that does a couple of twists and turns and is mostly vertical IS a problem, and so is the loop in it that's supposed to keep sea water out. Straighten out the vent line!

The exisiting hose seems to be one inch in outer diameter, when you say a one inch hose are you referring to Outer or Inner Diameter,

ALL hoses sizes are stated as the INNER diameter...all hose FITTINGS sizes are stated as the OUTER diameter. That makes it possible to know what size hose fits onto what size fitting.

If inner I will need to figure out if I can change the fitting on the tank.

You won't change that one...You'll put a threaded plug in it and you'll install a new vent fitting in the tank. That's actually pretty easy to do, thanks to a li'l gadget called the Uniseal UNISEAL (Scroll through ALL the pages to see how to install and to get to the price list). A short piece of PVC pipe becomes a new hose fitting and it's done. Shields or Trident #148 is ok for head intake and tank vent lines. You'll also need a new vent thru-hull--NOT a "vent" thru-hull (they're only made in 5/8"), but an open bulkhead fitting

...the vent is just below the toe rail so assuming the boat is healed over it could be submerged at least some of the time.

Do you heel enough to put the thru-hull in the water now? If not, don't worry about it. If you do, it's an easy problem to solve: put a clamshell cover over the thru-hull.

the line from the Y valve to the through-hull is not continuous, it has a coupling where it passes through a bulkhead and then it also has a section under the sink that appears to be a brass inverted U which is anchored to the top of the vanitity which is then connected by a flexible line back to the the through-hull. I assume this may also serve the function of raising the line above the waterline.

That "brass inverted U" is actually a BRONZE vented loop (anti-siphon device) that's problly been neglected for so long that the air valve in it ceased to function a couple of decades ago. It's also installed too low in the boat to be of any value even if it did still work....vented loops need to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL--which means it has to be that far above the waterline not only when the boat is at rest but if/when the rails are in the water...which on most sailboats would put it 2-3 FEET above the bowl.

However, that's really all moot because you can't legally dump a tank in the Bay, so you don't need a vented loop OR a y-valve or an overboard discharge pump either in the tank discharge line. If/when you ever get the boat into any shape to do any blue water cruising where you'd be able dump a tank or flush directly overboard, it's a simple matter to install 'em then. It makes no sense to install anything you can't use now because lack of use is more damaging to equipment than constant heavy use.

But you WILL need a vented loop in the head intake...it does NOT go between the thru-hull and pump, but has to go between the pump and the bowl. See the drawing in the installation instructions for your new toilet.
 
Aug 23, 2009
361
Hunter 30 Middle River MD
Actually this project got moved up as we are planning to do a Delmarva circumnavigation this spring and potentially a run to NYC either late this summer or next year, so the ability to go without a pump out becomes key, storage space is limited so going to a larger holding tank elsewhere is not possible and the existing tank with four aboard barely allows 36 hours of use before its full and coming out the vent opening. On the bay its never been a problem. Finding a pump out has been reasonably easy but the run along the coast could be a problem if the wind quits.

Since the pattern generally is to be 20 off the coast pumping overboard is possible if not all that desirable if we need to.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,946
- - LIttle Rock
If you're planning to cruise 20 miles offshore, I'd put a y-valve in the head discharge line that provides a choice of flushing the toilet directly overboard instead of going into the tank. Use the tank only when you have to. And if you learn how to use the toilet's dry mode to do more than just remove the last of the water in the bowl, you can double the number of flushes your tank will hold compared to pumping all the way to the tank in the wet mode.

Meanwhile, the attached photo shows you where the vented loops need to be. The smaller hoses are the intake loop, which is nestled under the larger discharge loop.
 

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