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Launching/Returning boat to hard, buyer’s costs

Apr 10, 2017
91
Seidelman 37 Kemah, TX
How about running the engine, genset, A/C? We looked at a boat locally that had a really severe list to starboard which the owner couldn't explain. Would have never noticed if the boat hadn't been in the water.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,308
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
How about running the engine, genset, A/C? We looked at a boat locally that had a really severe list to starboard which the owner couldn't explain. Would have never noticed if the boat hadn't been in the water.
I can run a genset, engine or AC with fresh water if I stack pallets and get a 55-gallon drum of water near the waterline. The only time I've run across an unexplainable list was when the steel shot used as the ballast in a keel, rusted solid when the boat (built in Taiwan) had an empty tank on one side for over a year. That was a hard one to work out. But yes, I'll give you that one, if you think its that common, and a serious problem.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
.. At the most, you could make some agreement that the owner pays iF you do buy the boat....
I agree with this. Our boat is on the hard in a yard where we get two free round trips in and out of the water per year as part of our yearly yard fees. When we sell the boat I'd expect a potential buyer to pay the round trip in and out. It is only $150 the last I checked. If they buy the boat I would gladly refund the $150.

In the yard they can see the bottom and everything else on the boat and the engine can be run so they should have about made up their mind if the boat is for them before the sea trial.

Sumner
======================================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...

MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 

Breal

.
Apr 21, 2009
43
H 31 Barnegat Bay, NJ
Is $16 a foot reasonable or Is that too high? The marina also changed us a $85 tow fee from the launch site to the slip 10 meters away.
Do these prices seem normal to anyone?
 
Oct 26, 2008
5,019
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Is $16 a foot reasonable or Is that too high? The marina also changed us a $85 tow fee from the launch site to the slip 10 meters away.
Do these prices seem normal to anyone?
No, especially the tow fee. If I was seller, I wouldn't be happy about the marina's charges. It doesn't really matter who pays these fees out of pocket, the fees basically get balanced out against the purchase price, and I'd guess that the Seller could eventually get burned. As a buyer, aren't you going to add up these fees in your head and then negotiate a purchase price accordingly? I guess if you (Buyer) get taken by surprise over the fees after already negotiating the purchase price, you'd feel burned, but you entered the deal and you can back out if you don't like it (probably at a price). When it is apparent that you are going to back out, won't the Seller go to his marina and complain that their fees aren't doing him any favors? Maybe somebody will move off their position. That's usually how a deal gets done. If you gag over the fees, but eventually accept them, then I guess you flinch first. Nobody enters into these things without free will and the ability to walk away.
 
Nov 13, 2013
639
Catalina 34 Tacoma
Does $16 a foot seem high, reasonable or low.
It seems high to me but this is the reason I'm asking.

Part of my question regarding the brokers is reasonable, should I expect this broker to have my best interest of the boat is listed by the same brokage company?
I don't see how because in my mind it seems like there is a bit of a conflict of interest.
I would avoid using a broker to begin with but if you do, your buyers agent gets paid the same amount whether the sellers agent is the same or not. The broker will get paid double so there may be some negotiating you can do there. Yes, the buyers broker makes a commission on the sale and is a conflict of interest but that's true of any salesperson. I say shoot the middlemen and work directly with an owner when possible.
$16 a foot is reasonable if all the services you received are the same price as on their website.
 
Nov 13, 2013
639
Catalina 34 Tacoma
Is $16 a foot reasonable or Is that too high? The marina also changed us a $85 tow fee from the launch site to the slip 10 meters away.
Do these prices seem normal to anyone?
If you were in business, how much would you charge to pay an employee to use the company boat and equipment worth thousands of $$ to move someones non-running boat 10 meters? I'd say $85 is pretty reasonable.
 
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CarlN

.
Jan 4, 2009
577
Ketch 55 Bristol, RI
There is nothing wrong with a conflict of interest as long as you know about it. As previously said, all brokers want to "do the deal" because that's how they get paid. So expect your broker to help as long as it helps the deal move forward.

Also realize that there is frequently a lot of private discussion between the two brokers about how to get you and the seller to "do the deal". This is not all terrible. Most buyers and sellers would get cold feet at some point without the brokers encouraging them along.

More concerning is whether this boat has been cared for. A boat that's not in the water on July 1 is not a boat that is loved. Have you talked to the owner? A good PO will be glad to talk your ear off about all the things he's done to improve the boat. Surveyors only find a fraction of the problems in the three or four hours of a typical survey. You could buy a one or two day survey but you probably don't want to pay for that.

Has the boatyard been caring for the boat. If so, I'd go and privately chat with the yard manager (no brokers nearby). Say that you are thinking of having them do some of the work if you buy the boat and would like his list of what needs attention. Yard managers aren't getting a commission and will often speak their mind especially if you may be a good future customer.
 

Breal

.
Apr 21, 2009
43
H 31 Barnegat Bay, NJ
The vessel did not require a tow. The marina automatically did it. If the boat required a tow, then $85 would be a steal.
My wife asked the marina the costs associated with the launch and haul & block but her inquiriy was not answered. It wasn’t until I asked father the boat had been launched that they told me.
 

Breal

.
Apr 21, 2009
43
H 31 Barnegat Bay, NJ
No, especially the tow fee. If I was seller, I wouldn't be happy about the marina's charges. It doesn't really matter who pays these fees out of pocket, the fees basically get balanced out against the purchase price, and I'd guess that the Seller could eventually get burned. As a buyer, aren't you going to add up these fees in your head and then negotiate a purchase price accordingly? I guess if you (Buyer) get taken by surprise over the fees after already negotiating the purchase price, you'd feel burned, but you entered the deal and you can back out if you don't like it (probably at a price). When it is apparent that you are going to back out, won't the Seller go to his marina and complain that their fees aren't doing him any favors? Maybe somebody will move off their position. That's usually how a deal gets done. If you gag over the fees, but eventually accept them, then I guess you flinch first. Nobody enters into these things without free will and the ability to walk away.
One can do all of the counter offering one wants, it’s up the the seller to accept the offer. Yes the seller wants to sell the boat but if he doesn’t accept your offer you can be in the hole for a lot of money especially at these prices.
 
Oct 26, 2008
5,019
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
One can do all of the counter offering one wants, it’s up the the seller to accept the offer. Yes the seller wants to sell the boat but if he doesn’t accept your offer you can be in the hole for a lot of money especially at these prices.
I assume you also have the ability to walk away. If you accept the fees, then the boat must be worth it to you. That's the nature of all transactions. It sounds like the fees took you by surprise, as if disclosure was incomplete. I'd be unhappy about that, too. After the deal has been struck, are they tacking on costs that were unanticipated?
But it still comes down to your decision if the total cost is worth it or not. It doesn't really matter if the money is going to the yard for exorbitant fees, to brokers who are working harder for the seller, or to the seller alone, now does it? It's your money until you close on the boat. After that it doesn't matter who gets their cut.
I suppose you have already paid for the survey and maybe there is a deposit at risk. Understandably, that all comes into play when you decide to fish or cut bait.
I agree with Carl that a boat for sail in July that is not in the water seems like a bit of a red flag. But suppose the Seller already bought the next boat and has it in his slip.
That begs the question … do buyers respond better to a boat that is in the water and ready to sail? This question assumes that you are talking about the same boat in good condition. What will sell better … in water or on blocks? (A curious potential seller wants to know).
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
4,627
Tartan 3800 Westport, MA
a boat for sail in July that is not in the water seems like a bit of a red flag
I don't think so. I have two boats. I'm not going to recommission and launch the one that's for sale unless a prospective buyer wants a sea trial.

On the topic of this post, I went through this last August. I was looking at a boat that was in storage, indoor, heated storage, no less! The owner had purchased another boat. The deal was, I was told, and it turns out that in my area (New England), it is the custom, that once I tender an offer the seller will recommission and launch. If I don't purchase it, I'm responsible for hauling and winterizing. It was capped at $2k (for a 38' boat). But this is only after my surveyor had done a thorough survey, we had made an offer and had negotiated a selling price.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Sails
Running rigging
Engine
Raw water system
Fresh water system
Through hulls
AP
instruments
Steering system
A/C
GENSET
standing rigging
Bilge
Sailing performance
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
4,627
Tartan 3800 Westport, MA
Sails
Running rigging
Engine
Raw water system
Fresh water system
Through hulls
AP
instruments
Steering system
A/C
GENSET
standing rigging
Bilge
Sailing performance
Yes, and more, but your comment - apropos what?
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Around here the better brokers provide a slip to for-sale boats. I would most certainly reduce my offer price by the cost of dealing with a prospective boat on the hard. So the owner would pay whether he admitted it or not. Too many good boats out there to fool with the yard queens.