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Last straw

Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Well I'm out of here for good. Place has changed over the last few years, and not for the better. Final straw was getting dressed down by an admin for posting a speed track from a sail last night. So seeya. Anyone who knows me use my email, or the same username on Sailing Anarchy. A little wilder over there for sure, but 100% more informative to sailors, and way less nannies. Maybe that's a good thing. Brian, please delete my account; I see I can't do that myself. Thanks.
 
May 9, 2020
54
Hunter Legend 37 Harrison Twp, MI
It’s a shame the “other” post was closed... wanted to offer appreciation for posting details and insight about a product that many people on this forum are interested in.

I get the admins want to prevent companies from overwhelming the forum with advertising posts... but Jackdaw frequently offered advise on lots of subjects. Yes, he did provided useful insight on a product that does pay his salary, but did so in a way that wasn’t obnoxious, didn’t criticize other brands, and was a small percentage of his contribution to the forum.

Count me disappointed in this outcome.
 
Feb 26, 2004
21,906
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
:plus:


At the risk of getting banned again myself, I agree completely. Sorry, but Jack's right. Too uptight, too often.

RTFM, F stands for Funny.

Why give grief to a contributor who has added so much valuable information and help to others? Boggles the mind.

Otherwise, this is a great forum with many helpful contributors, especially for new-to-sailing boaters.
 
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Phil Herring

Dethroned Admin
Mar 25, 1997
4,828
Hunter 450 Bainbridge Island
We provide some latitude to well-established users who are serious contributors here. Mainesail, JudyB, and others can attest to that. Jackdaw's thread is an ad. There are plenty of ways to talk about a product without posting a giant product photo, links to social media, text that reads like brochure copy, etc. Rodd and Judy do it all the time.

I recognize that the product is interesting and there's value in the topic, but if we let it go what can we say to other users who want to post ads about their products? Because if we don't enforce the rule, trust me, overnight the forums will be filled with well-meaning spam. Our intent is not to run Jackdaw off the forums; that's his call. He was not banned and we didn't delete the thread. It's a reasonable rule and I'm sure Jackdaw would agree with that, too. This is simply a tricky application of it.

But I'm serious. If anyone has an idea on how we should navigate this kind of situation I'm wide open to ideas. We've struggled with it for years. But I have to be able to respond fairly to many, many others who would love to do the same.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
:plus:

At the risk of getting banned again myself, I agree completely. Sorry, but Jack's right. Too uptight, too often.
Well, right or wrong—not sure about what it is that’s right or wrong here that you’re specifically referring to, but I don’t think it’s a right move to publicly dispute a judgment call about a product or display that the admin regards as advertising. My email, home and work, text messaging, my phones, cell and home, are relentlessly saturated with spam. It’s all oppressive, intrusive, and unwanted. I now must be certified every year for training on how to recognize and avoid spam traps that compromise network security if I use employer work stations. Membership at SBO promises an ad-free environment. So we should have one!

I also don’t think it’s right to attempt, evidently, to link (i.e., “Final straw...”) SBO’s more general policy on monitoring, some might call it “censorship”, to this one post (which I did not see) about advertising. They are different things and should not be conflated. Face it, as with all “service”, sharing one’s knowledge on SBO is w/o reward except for acknowledgement or recognition, of which JD has received aplenty. One should not expect “privileges.”
 
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May 9, 2020
54
Hunter Legend 37 Harrison Twp, MI
Jackdaw's thread is an ad.
That’s your call to make, but I can’t say I agree completely. The original post on 9-Feb... was very ad-like, no debate.

But the GPS track posted today didn’t promote any product, just reads like an excited sailor who hit 18kts in a 22ft boat. A little bragging maybe, but interesting to anyone who appreciates a good rip downwind.

You ask how to do it better, should have been dealt with in early Feb, by a PM and quietly removed. Why make it public. Like you said, some people are given leeway... apparently others aren’t. Some can give advise and tell you to buy their book... and don’t get publicly reprimanded by an Admin.

I believe you approach someone direct, don’t post a complaint in public with a tinge of “we” & “our” snarky.

That’s my 2-cents.

On another note, I do generally appreciate that the Admins here do a good job and the content is good. Thanks for providing the forum.
 
  • Like
Likes: BigEasy
Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Referring a person seeking information on a topic to a book or text on that subject the author of, or expert on which, is also an SBO member is not the same thing as we’re discussing here regarding product sales via what resembles, from what I gleen here as, testimonial advertising (in this forum), however subtle it appears to be. Perhaps akin to subliminal persuasion.
 
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Jul 26, 2009
251
. . .
It isn't uncommon on other forums for commercial members (or those representing commercial interests) to clearly identify themselves as such in their profile/avatar in order to indicate the company(s)/product(s) they are aligned with. If there were a "Forum Sponsor" section of SBO, it might also be appropriate for those parties to have to register there in order to leverage the SBO Forum for commercial/advertising purposes (and incur any associated fees). Perhaps this is a viable revenue stream for the site as long as the products do not compete with the SBO store.

There's a difference between a forum member reviewing/commenting on a product as a consumer vs a forum member doing the same thing for a service/product that they have a commercial interest in. Both are completely acceptable (in my opinion), provided there's a mechanism to establish transparency.

The post in question is clearly a product advertisement. As a member, I come hear to learn about sailing and all things related to it - so I welcome Jackdaw's post - but it's clearly a product advertisement. It's unclear to me if Jackdaw is upset that it was called out as an advertisement, or that the rule exists to begin with.
 
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  • Like
Likes: Will Gilmore
Jan 4, 2006
3,830
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
but if we let it go what can we say to other users who want to post ads about their products? Because if we don't enforce the rule, trust me, overnight the forums will be filled with well-meaning spam.
100% support on this. Others may have been interested in the product, I was not.

The only guy I know on SBO with the balls to post an advert. and then complain about being dressed down by admin.

Well I'm out of here for good.
You were out of here for good last time too, but that didn't last long.
 

Phil Herring

Dethroned Admin
Mar 25, 1997
4,828
Hunter 450 Bainbridge Island
Fair comments, @Marmalade . The thread did not get locked due to the reply made today. It was reported to us by a user which called attention to it. To be 100% transparent, I didn't even notice the date. If I had we might have handled it differently, but not necessarily.

It was not our choice to make the dispute public. In normal circumstances, we handle things just as you said: in PM and quietly. And FWIW, I can't find a hint of snark in my post and I'm surprised you think any was intended.
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,918
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I don't know the specifics, and don't really want to, but...

It's just a forum. A watercooler conversation. I try to help and I'm sure I've said things I should not have. I am sorry for that. But we really should all just try to enjoy the conversation. If I have something I want to say, the way I want to say it, I have a blog for that, where I moderate the comments (I only reject spam). On the average, only a few hundred people read the posts. Oh well. I also write for magazines; you can be sure the editors moderate my writing.
 
Sep 20, 2006
2,809
Hunter 33 Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada
:plus:


At the risk of getting banned again myself, I agree completely. Sorry, but Jack's right. Too uptight, too often.

RTFM, F stands for Funny.

Why give grief to a contributor who has added so much valuable information and help to others? Boggles the mind.

Otherwise, this is a great forum with many helpful contributors, especially for new-to-sailing boaters.

Openly badgering and questioning the Moderators is not open to discussion.
 

leo310

.
Dec 15, 2006
436
Catalina Catlina 310 Campbell River BC
What about adding a field in the classifieds for products that owners have used or know of that we can look up by the same way boats for sale is done.
 
May 9, 2020
54
Hunter Legend 37 Harrison Twp, MI
I think I owe @Phil Herring at minimum a clarification, and probably an apology. I didn’t mean to claim he was snarky in any way, rather he has been absolutely professional. So for the confusion, I apologize.

My snarky reference was towards the reply to @Jackdaw by @Brian D, who I believe is a moderator. He made the “we” & “our” questions, and said it was just turned commercial. This is the approach I felt could have been better... but I’m not immune to having poor tact sometimes myself.

Anyway, thanks @Phil Herring and @Brian D for all the good, this subject is certainly a small blip in the overall “good stuff” here!
 
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Aug 2, 2010
438
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
For what it is worth, I was interested in the locked thread as a resource to understand the product. Marketing information can never give the accurate cross section of issues and questions that a fulsome discussion on a forum can. This was not an ad but rather a resource for members like me.
I would consider it over the line if it had contact information for purchase of the product.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,607
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
I have lurked here for a quite a while, and Jack is/was a good source of information. I will miss his comments.
Admittedly.... I never saw/remembered the *thread that caused complaints. The Mod's here seem to always try to do a good job, tho, and being one myself on a different sailing site, I will not try to second guess them.
:)

*I wonder if the increased used and scrutiny of this and a hundred other sites by us home-bound/sequestered sailors during the pandemic has made everyone a bit more touchy and even grouchy sometimes? :(