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larger trailer sailor

Jun 25, 2004
984
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Thanks Dr. B
I had noticed something looked off about the way it sat on the trailer. That is diffinutly a big deal.
Not a deal killer, though, if the rest of the trailer is in good shape.. ask for more pics of the trailer before you go see the boat. Before you go, Call a trailer shop and ask them how much to move the axles and the bow stop, and to install three new carpeted bunks that are about 2/3 or less of the waterline. I’m guessing it’s two hours of shop labor and $ 200-400 in parts.

Judy
 

RussC

.
Sep 11, 2015
1,448
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Not a deal killer, though, if the rest of the trailer is in good shape.. ask for more pics of the trailer before you go see the boat. Before you go, Call a trailer shop and ask them how much to move the axles and the bow stop, and to install three new carpeted bunks that are about 2/3 or less of the waterline. I’m guessing it’s two hours of shop labor and $ 200-400 in parts.

Judy
Uhhhh. Judy.... with all due respect to your very helpful sail knowledge.
I'm not sure what you're basing your critical conclusions on, regarding this trailer. neither of us really know how much weight is on the trailer tongue, just by looking at a photo, or if it was designed properly. wile I did notice that the front of the bunks are rather shorter than my stock Mc trailer, the rear bunk length is quite similar to my factory designed trailer. and the rear of the trailer itself is also very close to the factory designed length. I couldn't find the close up photo I was hoping to share, showing the length of my trailer and more clearly showing the bunk placement, but this one of mine is pretty decent also. my boat has zero hull deformation from the bunk placement BTW, which ends very near the rear of the retracted keel.
P1030070.jpg


Take a look at those things, as well as the placement of the axle compared to the front axle on the trailer in question.

00V0V_516tOr3boeu_1200x900.jpg


The trailer in question is longer on the tongue end (a good thing), which may give the false impression of the boat sitting to far to the rear, but where is the proper "balance point" when using dual axles? I admit I don't know the precise answer to that myself, but I'd guess, if anything, there is an abundance of tongue weight on this setup, compared to the factory trailer. I do agree that the bow roller should go away, and be replaced with something more supportive BTW. or just add extra forward risers and lengthen the bunks which would be an even better solution.

.02
PS: by looking more closely at the other ad photos, I'm thinking there could actually be additional bunks nearer the centerline of the boat which extend further forward. poorly lit in the one other photo that might clear that up, but it would certainly be worth asking the seller about.
 
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Jun 25, 2004
984
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
@RussC

You make some good points and I respectfully acknowledge that you have much direct experience with Mac 25 trailers than I do.

I looked really carefully at a zoomed I picture of the trailer...And it says Macgregor 25 on it! so it’s probably OEM.But honestly, I think that trailer is set up badly, even if it came from the factory like that. I’d change the bunks and get rid of the rollers, even knowing that the factory set it up that way. But unless the trailer is unsound in some other way, that’s not a deal killer, in my opinion.

I also looked carefully for any more forward cross members to support bunks, and there aren’t any. You can see grass where there should be a forward cross member .

In my 30 years of sailing with other trailer sailing clubs and owning my own trailer sailors, I’ve seen too many boats with damage from trailers set up like that (and I have owned and repaired a couple of boats with damage from badly setup trailers)

I always check the axle alignment and tongue weight every time I buy any kind of trailer. It’s a straight forward job to measure the total weight and the tongue weight of a trailer, and to adjust tongue weight, if necessary. Its straight forward to move the axles and or bow stop and shift the boat. (We did it on my most recently acquired boat using a tractor and a floor jack). Adjusting Incorrect tongue weight or axle alignment is just something you do once, and certainly not a deal breaker.

But I’m still very worried about such short bunks, ( at least as they appear in the picture), the lack of bunk support under the swing keel, and the limited visibility of the rear lights. Common practice for a sailboat trailer is that bunk support be around 2/3 rd of the waterline of the hull, but I’m sure there are some exceptions to it. I’d still advise the prospective buyer to know the cost to fix any short comings before he buys the boat.

There are also many instances and pics on the internet of deformation and cracks when bunks are too short. I myself have seen more than a few boats that had to be repaired due to point loading on a bow roller. I’ve seen examples of swing keels that were damaged because they hit an axle or crossmember but I have never personally experienced that. A bunk from the back of the frame to the front of the swing keel or further prevents that kind of damage.

(I installed a center bunk under the swing centerboard on my current boat that came with the original 1992 trailer. The previous owner used to stuff some padding under the keel and over the cross member to prevent damage. Seemed like a crappy shortcut of a solution to me.)

Judy
 
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Oct 18, 2019
124
Johnson 18 Weekender 4 corners marina
you guys obviously know more than I do. I will ask the owner about the trailer. I will also take some pics while there so you can see what is going on and get your opinion then.
Thanks again for all the input.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,410
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI South Park, Colorado
If that trailer is OEM, its worked fine for nearly 40 years and who knows how many miles on the road. I would think 40 years of use would be long enough to tell if it had design problems. And it looks like someone has beefed it up. I would worry more about corrosion and were the owner mods done safely. Putting that extra axle to the rear of the stock axle tends to increase the tongue weight which is mostly a good thing unless it exceeds the spec of the tow vehicle.

Russ, do you know if that front bow roller is stock? On the later Mac 26S model, stock trailers did not have that bow support (and they go many decades with no problem) but people add them to aid loading the boat on the trailer from the water. But its not load bearing. It definitely makes it easier to load the boat.

edit to add.. Im assuming that was the stock trailer that came with the boat. If its not.. could be fine, could be a problem.. dont know. Just wanted to make sure what I said was only for the trailer that the boat originally came with.
 
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kenr74

.
May 3, 2019
43
Magregor 26S Oregon
They may have added that rear axle to the trailer to help with balance. I know my stock trailer that came with my 26S had almost no tongue weight and a ton of overhang off the back. I added an axle but centered them around the original axle location.

I also added a portable brake light to mine that I mount near my outboard to keep me from getting rear ended(and legal-ish). You may want to do the same based on how much overhang you have.
 
Oct 18, 2019
124
Johnson 18 Weekender 4 corners marina
So in looking at several for sale on line, they all seem to sit more aft on the trailer than I would think would be normal. Obviously it is for this boat. However, I didn't find any with dual axles. So, they must have added them. Thus, it will need to be inspected as well as location, weight etc. I will post some pics after I take a look at her Saturday evening. Oh, here is a link I found on Macgregor 25. Page 2 shows the trailer and the boat sits aft more than you would think. Also, I saw some the front bow roller so I am not at all sure about that.
 

RussC

.
Sep 11, 2015
1,448
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
John,
The trailer is NOT an original factory Macgregor trailer. not even a heavily modified one IMHO, and painting the Macgregor name on it still doesn't make it so ;). For one: the factory trailer has a very distinctive rear crossmember with a very deep V in it where the keel rests. the bottom of the V is almost dragging the ground, which allows for the boat to rest as low on the trailer as possible for easy launch and load.
there is a smallish block of wood mounted in the V to protect the cast iron keel where it rests.

click photos to enlarge:
IMG_0085.jpg

The boat your looking at does sit a bit higher because it doesn't have this feature, but the added length of the tongue over a factory trailer should help make up for that when launching. note the design of the bow stop/winch bracket on mine, which was always the traditional design except that I've added a mount for the outboard when I trailer. also note that I added a large weight near the bow because the factory trailers were all very light on the tongue weight (which is why I mount the outboard there also).

IMG_0086.jpg IMG_0087.jpg

for anyone who is still skeptical, look at this other photo of the trailer in question:

01010_94wSJ0IBlBw_1200x900.jpg

aside from the tongue, the bunks, and the bow roller (which was never a factory option either), note the roller on the rear crossmember that was left there from whatever boat the trailer was originally designed for.
I'm also still thinking that I see an extra set of bunks nearer the centerline of the boat that extend further forward than the short outer bunks, but I could be wrong about that one :)yikes::biggrin:)

I'm confident that you'll figure it all out on your own when you see it :biggrin: but the controversy keeps us busy until you do :laugh: . drive safe and keep the shiny side up! looking forward to hearing all the backstories from the current owner (I'll bet he has plenty). it looks like he enjoyed it and maintained it well.
 
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Jun 25, 2004
984
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
@John6275

Good luck! Hope the boat is really well maintained by a truly knowledgeable owner.

Be sure to “sound” the deck with a hammer to find any rotted core or delaminations. Hull too. Make sure the light is good and look for any repairs at a flat angle to find anomalies in the surface. Look for any differences in gelcoat color, like you would see on a car that’s been repainted. Make a note of the location and look inside for repairs. Repairs that are well done are fine, but cosmetic cover ups aren’t fine.

Ask the seller what he rebedded all the deck hardware with. And if he sealed the holes in the deck with epoxy to prevent water from getting into the core. If he says silicon, it’s not a deal killer, but it shows he’s not a skilled owner and all his work is suspect. 3M 5200 is a really bad choice, IMO; that would be a deal killer for me!. Home style caulks are a bad choice. Good choices would be Butyl or 3M 4200 or Lifecaulk or sikaflex 291 or 292.

If you don’t find any deal killers, it’s worth 300 - 500 dollars to hire a surveyor to look at the boat, IMO. Put a deposit down so the seller knows you are serious.

If the trailer looks like it has been recently painted, look at it at a flat angle with a flashlight to reveal rust the has been painted over. tap it with a light weight sounding hammer to find any loose rust covered with new paint.


 
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Jun 25, 2004
984
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Photo Comparisons of the trailer that is "For Sale" to the others. I photoshopped the photos to see the bunks and the keel more easily

The side bunks that support the hull are significantly shorter than the others

There is a long center keel guide on the trailer that's for sale, maybe with a hull supporting bunk (?) in the center of the for-sale trailer. It's hard to see it.
I don't see a center support bunk in the pics of the others, but maybe there's one there. Center bunks that support the hull aren't common.

The boat sits higher on its trailer than the others. You will need to back the trailer in further to float the boat off. I assume that's why the tongue extension was added to it.

The trailer is longer overall, with the boat further aft.

The front axle of the trailer is under the middle of the keel, the rear axle further aft. I don't know for sure what this does to tongue weight, but I assume it's easily adjusted by moving the axles if needed.
The single axle on the other trailers is centered under the keel.


for sale.jpg


mac25-manual.jpg


Untitled-4.jpg


Untitled-3.jpg
 
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Oct 18, 2019
124
Johnson 18 Weekender 4 corners marina
wow, that's awesome Dr. B
I actually have a center keel guide on my little 18.5 Johnson Weekender.
I hope to get some good pics Sat.
 
Apr 26, 2015
514
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
The trailer in the ad is more than likely a converted powerboat trailer where the weight is in the stern (engine). The bow of the boat is a long way from the hitch ball which is not common practice. There are also things that have been removed forward of the current bow roller, which was added after the original paint job. None of this is a deal killer IMO. Extending the trailer frame aft would be prudent for support and move the lights to a legal position. If you feel the boat has enough support at least build a removable light bar to hang on the stern. A good way to check support on the bunks is to use a thin (credit card thickness) flat flexible plastic ruler. I use a dress making ruler. Slide it between the bunk and boat at various points to see if the boat even touches the bunk. A really bright flashlight held against the hull around the bunks, and other spots, will show convex areas. A good way to find blisters also. Another thing people with swing keel boats tend not to do is support the keel at both ends. This leaves 300# of weight, on this boat, hanging on the pivot pin and adds that weight to the bunks also. Just imagine the dynamic force on the pin when you hit a good bump. New keel bolts installed, great, but check around the installation for possible problems.

I also noted in the ad a new mast base plate. The only reason I've ever seen to replace this is when the mast was dropped or went askew while raising, (maybe the reason for the new mast raising system) so check the mast for straightness, including sail track, and and the base of the mast for deformation. 2 new bilge pumps hummm why? New rigging that has not been put on boat, why, maybe it does not fit.

Any boat of this vintage, and I love classic plastic (out of 7 trailer sailors, I've never had anything newer than an '83, currently a '75) the first thing I would do is take a stroll on the foredeck. That might make you want to run back to your car. Good Luck
 
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Oct 18, 2019
124
Johnson 18 Weekender 4 corners marina
Ok, back from inspection.
Starting with the trailer. It is as expected not the original trailer. Current owner has had boat about 4 years. PO had this trailer customized for thos boat. CO added extension to front to help with on and off loading at shallow ramps. Hopefully pics will show enough for everyone to see and give input.
CO was going to get bottom redone but was told by marina that he should leave until old was mostly gone. Current coating not correct for trailer sailer according the them according to PO.
Other than terrible flaking , the hull looked and sounded good except for one spot at lower bow. CO was in process of completing. Looks, feels and sounds solid but needs more sanding at the least. However , I'm not experienced in this area, yet.
Top side, no soft spots noted walking around. Sounding seemed good as well. Hardware was removed, epoxied , drilled and reattached with top side sealant according to CO. Just for info, saw pics of a peer boat he just restored and while he might not be great, it does appear ge tries to do things well. That being said , open to opinions and experience.
He repaired deck at bow where a limb had punctured it as well.
Very few cracks noted anywhere , most at floor of deck in cockpit where it curves up from floor to lockers.
Mast looked straight and I did not see any deformities in it. New halyards. Wenches spun well.
Interior looked good.
Campaign way cover could use some work and a new seal.
Clean, no signs of leakes at exterior connection points or windows. Bilge clean and dry. Wiring in new panel looks good but could use a little tidying but clean and not a mess.
No sign of stress or separation at bulkhead that I could see.
It started to rain so we did not get to do sail inspection.
Next step, if we proceed will be a water trail ,which include , of course, the sail inspection and motor test.
I'm sure I forgot to mention a few things but I'm sure you guys will catch them for me.
now let's see if I can get some pics uploaded to go with this.
 

RussC

.
Sep 11, 2015
1,448
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Isn't it strange how NONE of that damage or repairs was shown or mentioned in the CL ad :huh:. that just aggravates the ^%$@^&*% out of me when people misrepresent like that. after seeing your photos I would strongly advise that you should just say "no thank you" and walk away. The Mac 25 is a great all around boat, but not that one. you can easily do a LOT better for that kind of money, even with the new sail and motor. just my humble opinion.
 
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