I have a 2007 B323 with the standard 116% genoa and would like to get something bigger. I see some posts from back in 2007 regarding the issue with the shrouds attaching at the toe rail and the inboard track limiting the genoa size ( 165-170 Genoa ). Has anyone found a solution or has positive experience with a bigger genoa, maybe 135%? I am looking to reduce the weather helm, closer haul, and get better performance. Thank you.
Larger genoa for B323
- Thread starter Barnabas
- Start date
I don’t think that design gives you too many options there. The only way to run a bigger genoa would be to sheet outside the shrouds. Doing that will really hurt you sheeting angle, making it harder to point upwind. The extra sail area will also pull the center of effort backwards, which will only increase weather helm. The extra sail area probably wouldn’t be worth those compromises, especially because most of the forward pull upwind comes from the leading edge of the sail, not the back portion. A larger headsail can be a help downwind, but an asymmetrical spinnaker or Code 0 is the better way of making gains there anyway.
I presume the need for a larger genoa is for reaching and downwind conditions. Your Assy kite can handle the downwind but a Code 0 is probably the best solution for reaching, especially in lighter conditions. I had a B-323 and certainly would gladly have added a C0 but I sold her first. Nice boat to spend time on.
Barnabas,
I have a Beneteau 311 that has a very similar sail plan and rigging to the 323. It has a 116% jib that sheets inside the shrouds, so a larger headsail would have to go around the shrouds at a wider angle. The boat needs more sail area in light winds, but is fully powered up at 12 kn apparent upwind.
I don't have a problem with the weather helm you mention. My helm is very balanced. If I find that I need more than one spoke of helm (or 2/3) due to heeling, or I am healing more than 14 deg, I let the traveler down to leeward. I make much less leeway with less heel, especially double and singlehanded, so VMG is better. If the traveller is down most of the time, I take in a reef. Going to windward, I'll get down to 2 reefs before, I start rolling up the jib. My boat is much happier going to windward with a full jib and 1 or 2 reefs in the main. Off the wind the jib and main can be reefed together if desired.
The keel on a 311 is heavy enough, but doesn't have that much lateral area, so it slips to leeward pretty easily if heeled over. Presumably the 323 is similar.
I worked out a plan with a sailmaker that would fit a 165% jib that with the sheet lead going to the back of the inboard sail track, on the side deck, near the back of the cabin top. (It is odd that the Beneteau installed a genoa track that runs back that far.) But what I actually bought was an A1.5 asymmetrical spinnaker from Doyle, as seen in the thumbnail to the left. It is a light reaching spinnaker, 621 sq. ft, 17% bigger than the standard main and jib together, but less that maximum spinnaker size allowed by PHRF rules. It is a great sail for up to 12 kn apparent. I bought it to keep the boat moving on 4 kn days, rather than run the engine, but it has made me more competitive in distance races also. In lighter winds I can sometimes sail as high as 55 deg apparent. I can sail downwind up to 135-140 apparent, but lower than that the sail just dies and I have to head up to get moving again. Theoretically I could sail straight downwind wing and wing in drifting conditions with a whisker pole, but I seem to keep up to other boats by sailing the gybe angles.
For the readers not that familiar with the Beneteau 311 and 323, the normal sails for the 311 are a main of 277 sq. ft, and a 116% jib of 255 sq. ft, on a fractional rig (but more like a 9/10 fractional rig). So the main and jib are of similar size. These proportions can be compared to boats from a decade or two earlier that had 155% genoas to take advantage of the racing handicap rules, so that the genoa was roughly twice the size of the main.
Later I also bought a Code 0 for sailing on a close reach, 439 sq. ft. It is roughly equivalent in area to a 200% jib. This sail also helps me to keep the boat moving on light air days, but is a better sail for sailing above a reach than the Code 0.
Good luck.
I have a Beneteau 311 that has a very similar sail plan and rigging to the 323. It has a 116% jib that sheets inside the shrouds, so a larger headsail would have to go around the shrouds at a wider angle. The boat needs more sail area in light winds, but is fully powered up at 12 kn apparent upwind.
I don't have a problem with the weather helm you mention. My helm is very balanced. If I find that I need more than one spoke of helm (or 2/3) due to heeling, or I am healing more than 14 deg, I let the traveler down to leeward. I make much less leeway with less heel, especially double and singlehanded, so VMG is better. If the traveller is down most of the time, I take in a reef. Going to windward, I'll get down to 2 reefs before, I start rolling up the jib. My boat is much happier going to windward with a full jib and 1 or 2 reefs in the main. Off the wind the jib and main can be reefed together if desired.
The keel on a 311 is heavy enough, but doesn't have that much lateral area, so it slips to leeward pretty easily if heeled over. Presumably the 323 is similar.
I worked out a plan with a sailmaker that would fit a 165% jib that with the sheet lead going to the back of the inboard sail track, on the side deck, near the back of the cabin top. (It is odd that the Beneteau installed a genoa track that runs back that far.) But what I actually bought was an A1.5 asymmetrical spinnaker from Doyle, as seen in the thumbnail to the left. It is a light reaching spinnaker, 621 sq. ft, 17% bigger than the standard main and jib together, but less that maximum spinnaker size allowed by PHRF rules. It is a great sail for up to 12 kn apparent. I bought it to keep the boat moving on 4 kn days, rather than run the engine, but it has made me more competitive in distance races also. In lighter winds I can sometimes sail as high as 55 deg apparent. I can sail downwind up to 135-140 apparent, but lower than that the sail just dies and I have to head up to get moving again. Theoretically I could sail straight downwind wing and wing in drifting conditions with a whisker pole, but I seem to keep up to other boats by sailing the gybe angles.
For the readers not that familiar with the Beneteau 311 and 323, the normal sails for the 311 are a main of 277 sq. ft, and a 116% jib of 255 sq. ft, on a fractional rig (but more like a 9/10 fractional rig). So the main and jib are of similar size. These proportions can be compared to boats from a decade or two earlier that had 155% genoas to take advantage of the racing handicap rules, so that the genoa was roughly twice the size of the main.
Later I also bought a Code 0 for sailing on a close reach, 439 sq. ft. It is roughly equivalent in area to a 200% jib. This sail also helps me to keep the boat moving on light air days, but is a better sail for sailing above a reach than the Code 0.
Good luck.
Mayhem,
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that. My furler is full now when the 116% jib is unfurled.
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that. My furler is full now when the 116% jib is unfurled.
You can remove the core from 10-15 feet of the furling line to get more line on the drum, i.e., a longer furling line.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,768
A 165 is too big and heavy for the rig ( in my opinion.) your creating drag as the wind separates halfway back from the luff. Look for a light Mylar “tape sail” in about a 135. It still has the Genoa shape yet is usable on those Zephyr days when the wind needs gossamer cloth to inflate the sail.
Be ready to switch the sail if the breeze freshens. The sails are for light conditions. Delay on a sail change and you’ll experience a blowout.
Be ready to switch the sail if the breeze freshens. The sails are for light conditions. Delay on a sail change and you’ll experience a blowout.