I'm strugging with a decision that sometimes I think is a no-brainer one way and other times a no-brainer the other way. I currently have a 1978 O'Day 23 (2 seasons now with my first boat) which I am generally happy with. I co-worker/friend of mine is selling his 1975? Catalina 27. Basically he will sell me th Cat for whatever I can get for the O'Day. Both boats are similarly accessorized, and both have fairly new outboards. I'm getting the O'Day back in shape from the P.O. (electrical system a disaster, still rebedding deck hardware). The O'Day has a brand new jib and newer main and standing rigging. The Cat has old (original?) sails and oldish standing rigging. So far, I generally day sail Narragansett Bay with an overnight or two with the wife and 3 year old, but would like to do more overnighters down the road and maybe a several-day trip to Block Island or overnight with another couple and kid. I don't want to buy a bigger boat for the sake of a bigger boat if that bigger boat is of lower quality. In my mind, the benifits of the Cat are the larger size (another couple and kid on an overnight) and the real fin keel (stiffness) as opposed to the stub keel/centerboard on the O'Day. The disadvantage is the older sails/standing rigging, beat cushions etc. I don't know enough about these boats to say if the construction of one is better than the other. The Cat has a bunch of parallel gelcoat cracks that run athwarship in the cockpit footwell that suggest to me that the aft end of the boat has flexed (though the hull looks OK. I don't have a trailer for the trailerable O'Day and don't have a place to put it at my house anyway. Those are the thoughts running around my head at 2:30 AM. Thank you all for your time reading and responding to this long post. This site is an incredible resource for a newbie like myself.
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My Perspective
Scott, This decision has a different answer for each person. I'll give you my perspective. I have an H23 (23ft '85 Hunter) that I keep out at Port Jefferson on LI. I mostly day sail with a weekend 1-2 night stay about 2X a year. I have a wife and 2 Kids that sail with me. I considered upgrading to a larger boat more than once. I stayed with the Hunter 23 mostly because: 1) A boat this size is less complicated (Port-a-potty / outboard). The saying goes that big problems on a little boat are small problems on a big boat. 2) Cheaper: I have a trailer so I launch and retrive myself saving about $300/yr) 3) Less upkeep (bottom painting/brightwork/waxing all less time) 4) Easy to handle: (getting in and out of marinas very easy. This works for me because we've adapted to the constraints of a small boat. We don't go out in rough weather and we watch the forcast when on our overnighters. The disadvantages are that we have less room, our cruising grounds are limited (but we can trailer anywhere we want!)and we don't do any substantial ocean cruising. For you, the issues to think about are: What unknown problems could the Cat 27 have? You'll have more expensive components to replace when the time comes. This balances with: how much time do you plan on cruising overnight and how much open water sailing you want to do. Hope this helps, /Chuck S/V Windsongs '85 H23
Scott, This decision has a different answer for each person. I'll give you my perspective. I have an H23 (23ft '85 Hunter) that I keep out at Port Jefferson on LI. I mostly day sail with a weekend 1-2 night stay about 2X a year. I have a wife and 2 Kids that sail with me. I considered upgrading to a larger boat more than once. I stayed with the Hunter 23 mostly because: 1) A boat this size is less complicated (Port-a-potty / outboard). The saying goes that big problems on a little boat are small problems on a big boat. 2) Cheaper: I have a trailer so I launch and retrive myself saving about $300/yr) 3) Less upkeep (bottom painting/brightwork/waxing all less time) 4) Easy to handle: (getting in and out of marinas very easy. This works for me because we've adapted to the constraints of a small boat. We don't go out in rough weather and we watch the forcast when on our overnighters. The disadvantages are that we have less room, our cruising grounds are limited (but we can trailer anywhere we want!)and we don't do any substantial ocean cruising. For you, the issues to think about are: What unknown problems could the Cat 27 have? You'll have more expensive components to replace when the time comes. This balances with: how much time do you plan on cruising overnight and how much open water sailing you want to do. Hope this helps, /Chuck S/V Windsongs '85 H23
get the cat 27
Hi Scott, I have three buddies out here in San Diego with Catalina 27's and they love them. I went out cruising this past Sunday on one of them and it was great. One buddy had an O'day 23 prior and it was fine for single handing, but add a wife, child and maybe friends and it gets real cramped. The 27 is just as easy to single hand and way more comfortable.(I have a Catalina 36 that I single hand all the time.) The 27 is a great sailboat. Make the move up and you won't regret it. Tom M.
Hi Scott, I have three buddies out here in San Diego with Catalina 27's and they love them. I went out cruising this past Sunday on one of them and it was great. One buddy had an O'day 23 prior and it was fine for single handing, but add a wife, child and maybe friends and it gets real cramped. The 27 is just as easy to single hand and way more comfortable.(I have a Catalina 36 that I single hand all the time.) The 27 is a great sailboat. Make the move up and you won't regret it. Tom M.
Tradeoffs
As Scott said, the answer is different for everyone. There are some things you can count on as your boat size goes up. I started out with a 16 foot trailerable Oday. Fun little boat but when tried to get wife and two kids on it just did not work. Had good days on it, strictly limited to day sailing. Very easy to launch and retrieve and stored in my driveway. I moved up to a Venture 22 with a small cabin which would technically sleep four although I don't see how this would work for real humans. More room though than the 16 and much more stable with a weighted swing up keel. Again had many good days sailing on it. My daughter and I did one overnight and cramped was an understatement. While the boat was trailerable I gave up some independence as launch and retrieval now needed an extra hand to raise and lower mast. Ended up mooring it so we could get out sailing faster but could still haul myself every year and store in my yard. This past year I moved up to an Ericson 29. Again, tons more room, much more stable with a fixed keel and a lot more nice features like a galley, sit down head, actual sleeping room, etc. The tradeoffs are just more and more costly maintenance etc. Bottom paint takes more time every year, the hull is way bigger than you would think. The boat can't stay in the water year round so I now need to pay a yard to haul and store it. Forget raising the mast yourself so the yard does this too, all at a cost. Is it worth it? For me it is. It is a 1971 so I did not pay that much to begin with and the extended cruising range and comfort it provides are considerable. I am now planning a passage to Bermuda from Maine, something I could not consider before. Would I go any bigger, I don't know. I say no now but I can't rule it out, there was a day I said the 22 was big enough.
As Scott said, the answer is different for everyone. There are some things you can count on as your boat size goes up. I started out with a 16 foot trailerable Oday. Fun little boat but when tried to get wife and two kids on it just did not work. Had good days on it, strictly limited to day sailing. Very easy to launch and retrieve and stored in my driveway. I moved up to a Venture 22 with a small cabin which would technically sleep four although I don't see how this would work for real humans. More room though than the 16 and much more stable with a weighted swing up keel. Again had many good days sailing on it. My daughter and I did one overnight and cramped was an understatement. While the boat was trailerable I gave up some independence as launch and retrieval now needed an extra hand to raise and lower mast. Ended up mooring it so we could get out sailing faster but could still haul myself every year and store in my yard. This past year I moved up to an Ericson 29. Again, tons more room, much more stable with a fixed keel and a lot more nice features like a galley, sit down head, actual sleeping room, etc. The tradeoffs are just more and more costly maintenance etc. Bottom paint takes more time every year, the hull is way bigger than you would think. The boat can't stay in the water year round so I now need to pay a yard to haul and store it. Forget raising the mast yourself so the yard does this too, all at a cost. Is it worth it? For me it is. It is a 1971 so I did not pay that much to begin with and the extended cruising range and comfort it provides are considerable. I am now planning a passage to Bermuda from Maine, something I could not consider before. Would I go any bigger, I don't know. I say no now but I can't rule it out, there was a day I said the 22 was big enough.
Not trailering your trailerable boat?
It sounds like you don't mind a little bit of a project and you don't make the cracks in the cockpit much of an issue. It's a 30-year old boat, it can't be perfect. So if you are not trailering your current boat, which means that the advantage of the smaller size is moot, and your goal is to expand your cruising horizons, what is the question? Duh ... trade up! The boats are basically the same age and the Catalina must be at least the same quality as an O'Day (not a knock, I am sure that I would be happy to own a boat from either manufacturer). What great cruising grounds you have where you live ... take greater advantage of it. BTW, we have a 27' boat and I can't imagine spending a weekend on anything smaller.
It sounds like you don't mind a little bit of a project and you don't make the cracks in the cockpit much of an issue. It's a 30-year old boat, it can't be perfect. So if you are not trailering your current boat, which means that the advantage of the smaller size is moot, and your goal is to expand your cruising horizons, what is the question? Duh ... trade up! The boats are basically the same age and the Catalina must be at least the same quality as an O'Day (not a knock, I am sure that I would be happy to own a boat from either manufacturer). What great cruising grounds you have where you live ... take greater advantage of it. BTW, we have a 27' boat and I can't imagine spending a weekend on anything smaller.
sea trial
Scott, Have you sailed the cat 27? If not you should try and take it out for a trial and then take your Oday 23 out the same afternoon. I have never sailed the Oday but I have sailed the Cat 27 and like the boat. They are well balanced and nimble. I personally like the feel of a little heavier boat than a 23. I own a 33 foot sloop. I started with a 16 footer, moved to 24 footer, moved to 30 footer, then to 33 foot. A major difference once you get up to the 27-28 foot size is standing headroom. I will never own another boat that I can not stand up in. Good luck with your decision.
Scott, Have you sailed the cat 27? If not you should try and take it out for a trial and then take your Oday 23 out the same afternoon. I have never sailed the Oday but I have sailed the Cat 27 and like the boat. They are well balanced and nimble. I personally like the feel of a little heavier boat than a 23. I own a 33 foot sloop. I started with a 16 footer, moved to 24 footer, moved to 30 footer, then to 33 foot. A major difference once you get up to the 27-28 foot size is standing headroom. I will never own another boat that I can not stand up in. Good luck with your decision.
And they say size does not matter!!!
The Oday and the Catalina are both production sailboats of similar quality. The advantage of the O-Day is that you can trailer it to different venues. Other than that the bigger Catalina wins hands down. Standing room, enclosed head, galley and all the other niceties of a bigger boat. But the largest positive feature will be about 1 more knot of hull speed. This will expand your sailing grounds as in a 10 hours period you could be 11.5 miles farther up ahead than with the O-Day.
The Oday and the Catalina are both production sailboats of similar quality. The advantage of the O-Day is that you can trailer it to different venues. Other than that the bigger Catalina wins hands down. Standing room, enclosed head, galley and all the other niceties of a bigger boat. But the largest positive feature will be about 1 more knot of hull speed. This will expand your sailing grounds as in a 10 hours period you could be 11.5 miles farther up ahead than with the O-Day.
SIZE DOES MATTER
In a 2005, 20/20 program which addressed the top 10 or 20 myths, SIZE does matter. Happy sailing to all! (I could not resist)
In a 2005, 20/20 program which addressed the top 10 or 20 myths, SIZE does matter. Happy sailing to all! (I could not resist)
Have you considered a catalina 25?
We used to have a catalina 25, and before the fight on here starts, try this your self: Go into the "V" berth of both the Cat 25 and 27 and you will find that the Cat 25 has a bigger "V" berth, and feels roomier than the 27. We are of average height and could not fit comfortably in a 27 berth but could in a 25. The 25 is a fun boat to sail and can handle quite a bit more than you would suspect. Get the fin keel, DO NOT get the swing keel. Also the Catalina 25 has a poptop roof. We had a piece made (matched the bimini) to fit over the top and had screening for windows and velcro up flaps. It snapped down along the edge. It went on and off in literally seconds and really kept things cool inside. A Cat 25 can be had in VERY good condition with a good outboard for about $5,000.00.We have had many 2 week vacations in it and eventually lived on it for 2 years. we loved it. Also, buying a boat with 'shot' cushions, older sails, and worn rigging can be an expensive mistake. If you can afford it, it is always worth spending more money on a boat in better condition, or atleast wait until you can afford it. Take it from a guy that spent several non-sailing years working on fixer uppers. Not only did they keep me out of the water, but they were NOT cheap in the long run. Remember that you can easily spend more money on a project boat than you will ever recover from it. Good luck in whatever you do.
We used to have a catalina 25, and before the fight on here starts, try this your self: Go into the "V" berth of both the Cat 25 and 27 and you will find that the Cat 25 has a bigger "V" berth, and feels roomier than the 27. We are of average height and could not fit comfortably in a 27 berth but could in a 25. The 25 is a fun boat to sail and can handle quite a bit more than you would suspect. Get the fin keel, DO NOT get the swing keel. Also the Catalina 25 has a poptop roof. We had a piece made (matched the bimini) to fit over the top and had screening for windows and velcro up flaps. It snapped down along the edge. It went on and off in literally seconds and really kept things cool inside. A Cat 25 can be had in VERY good condition with a good outboard for about $5,000.00.We have had many 2 week vacations in it and eventually lived on it for 2 years. we loved it. Also, buying a boat with 'shot' cushions, older sails, and worn rigging can be an expensive mistake. If you can afford it, it is always worth spending more money on a boat in better condition, or atleast wait until you can afford it. Take it from a guy that spent several non-sailing years working on fixer uppers. Not only did they keep me out of the water, but they were NOT cheap in the long run. Remember that you can easily spend more money on a project boat than you will ever recover from it. Good luck in whatever you do.
Go for the Cat 27
A friend has a Catalina 27 and loves the boat. He often sails single handed, cruise through out Lake Michigan, and races the boat. The boat is easy to handle. He even flys his spinaker when sailing w/ one other person on board to handle the helm. The Cat 27 is a very seaworthy craft.
A friend has a Catalina 27 and loves the boat. He often sails single handed, cruise through out Lake Michigan, and races the boat. The boat is easy to handle. He even flys his spinaker when sailing w/ one other person on board to handle the helm. The Cat 27 is a very seaworthy craft.
Scott, I have a 10 year old 270, the current
version of the 27, it is an absolute piece of cake to single hand, if you got things balanced it will steer itself. My dockmate has an almost new 250 wingkeel that does seem as big or bigger in the cabin but is much more "tender" in the chop than my boat with a fin keel. I want a bigger boat in the near future & 2 people with 25's have expressed interest in my 27 when I sell. Bigger is better to the point where you have the time and resources to maintain, hopefully you want to spend more time sailing the boat than working on it's systems. It's a balance you gotta find that fits you.
version of the 27, it is an absolute piece of cake to single hand, if you got things balanced it will steer itself. My dockmate has an almost new 250 wingkeel that does seem as big or bigger in the cabin but is much more "tender" in the chop than my boat with a fin keel. I want a bigger boat in the near future & 2 people with 25's have expressed interest in my 27 when I sell. Bigger is better to the point where you have the time and resources to maintain, hopefully you want to spend more time sailing the boat than working on it's systems. It's a balance you gotta find that fits you.
No question go for it!
If you think a O'Day is sailing in comparison to a Cat 27 you wow, really need to get out there and crew! There is no comparison, as far as stability, safety, over nites, and seaworthiness. Unless you are a day sailor inland there is and can't be any comparison to a Catamaran on any issue. The 27 is the best sailing Cat made and that's a direct quote from many Cat sailors.The O'Day is only a day sailing craft the 27 can take you out to sea and coastal sailing is better and safer because of the extra weight, and stability. Good luck on your trade!
If you think a O'Day is sailing in comparison to a Cat 27 you wow, really need to get out there and crew! There is no comparison, as far as stability, safety, over nites, and seaworthiness. Unless you are a day sailor inland there is and can't be any comparison to a Catamaran on any issue. The 27 is the best sailing Cat made and that's a direct quote from many Cat sailors.The O'Day is only a day sailing craft the 27 can take you out to sea and coastal sailing is better and safer because of the extra weight, and stability. Good luck on your trade!
Catalina or catamaran
Danny, I have read your response several times and I am very confused. Are you refering to the Cat 27 as being a catamaran? I think what is being referred to as a Cat 27 is a Catalina, which is a monohull.
Danny, I have read your response several times and I am very confused. Are you refering to the Cat 27 as being a catamaran? I think what is being referred to as a Cat 27 is a Catalina, which is a monohull.
Upgrade?
Going to a Catalina 27 is an upgrade in the general sense, BUT, in this case, with this particular Catalina 27, it may not be. If you buy a boat in the VALUE range of a Cat 27 and it needs rigging, sails,cushions, gelcoat repair and a general face lift, to "upgrade" it to something you could be proud of could cost more than the boat is worth. A nicer smaller boat is a better value than a larger garbage barge.
Going to a Catalina 27 is an upgrade in the general sense, BUT, in this case, with this particular Catalina 27, it may not be. If you buy a boat in the VALUE range of a Cat 27 and it needs rigging, sails,cushions, gelcoat repair and a general face lift, to "upgrade" it to something you could be proud of could cost more than the boat is worth. A nicer smaller boat is a better value than a larger garbage barge.
I agree, go for the 27
Scott, I had a 1978 O'Day 23 for 10+ years and had a lot of fun with it but my wife is not into camping and it was a lot like that. You also need A/C down her if you want to use your boat in the summer. We had a friend that had a Cat 27 and it was a big difference. One of the first things I noticed was the 27 didn't heel over as quickly as the 23 did. The 27 was just enough bigger to give you a more solid feel and of cource there's the space in the cabin. Have you looked at any O'Day 28's? We don't have that many down here but I would think there would be a lot more up there in the NE. I looked at one several years ago and liked it better than the Cat 27. Just a thought. Tom s/v At Last
Scott, I had a 1978 O'Day 23 for 10+ years and had a lot of fun with it but my wife is not into camping and it was a lot like that. You also need A/C down her if you want to use your boat in the summer. We had a friend that had a Cat 27 and it was a big difference. One of the first things I noticed was the 27 didn't heel over as quickly as the 23 did. The 27 was just enough bigger to give you a more solid feel and of cource there's the space in the cabin. Have you looked at any O'Day 28's? We don't have that many down here but I would think there would be a lot more up there in the NE. I looked at one several years ago and liked it better than the Cat 27. Just a thought. Tom s/v At Last
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