My 33 will not go to port in reverse, prop walk is to starboard and the rudder can't overcome and go to port. Is this normal or is this a symptom of a rudder problem or some other condition? Operator error is always a possibility.
Lack of control in reverse
- Thread starter Keith M. Knight
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Until you get some speed on, you will get walk. The technique is to start with that expectation, apply plenty of power to get the boat moving and then throttle way down. My 32 was in a slip near a bulkhead so I always had to back out the fairway. Got pretty familiar with the process.
Very few sailboats behave well in reverse. Prop walk is greater than rudder force at slow speeds. Try going straight in reverse until you have a knot or two of boatspeed, then cut back the engine revs and steer to port. With enough water going by your rudder, you should be able to steer in reverse. Of course, this can be tricky in tight quarters....
Keep in mind that when you go in reverse, you need to turn the wheel in the other direction. Seems self-evident, but guys are forever banging into pilings because they forgot to switch directions of the wheel as well as the direction.
When the boat is in neutral, there is no prop walk. Just apply reverse until you get the boat moving and then shift into neutral and control direction of drift with rudder. Now more than likely if there is any kind of wind or current from your portside you may not be able to back into it on neutral, in that case your options may be to use a spring line to turn the boat, to back out to starboard and then gain way forward to do a 180 degree turn or continue to back the boat at slow speed until you are clear. Do not load the rudder by trying to back up at high speed. Just make sure when asking for available slips at home or transient marinas that you get one that facilitates backing to starboard or if unavailable then consider backing the boat into the slip. The best time to plan your departure is at arrival.
I am surprised it "walks" to starboard. What motor and with what prop? My old slip on Lake Erie required a starboard walk, we could have traded. My original prop was so bad that I would walk the dock with the boat, jump on at the last second, goose it to get headway, then go to neutral to steer it. Never yet have I ever backed into a slip.
Probably never told you guys the story of backing out on a holiday with lots of river traffic. The river is kind of narrow and I did as above, really had her moving in reverse to get out of everyone's way. There was one large power boat bearing down too fast in a no wake zone. I couldn't get it out of neutral and stuck the rudder in the mud on the opposite side. The power boat knew he was partially the cause and came to my rescue.
Probably never told you guys the story of backing out on a holiday with lots of river traffic. The river is kind of narrow and I did as above, really had her moving in reverse to get out of everyone's way. There was one large power boat bearing down too fast in a no wake zone. I couldn't get it out of neutral and stuck the rudder in the mud on the opposite side. The power boat knew he was partially the cause and came to my rescue.
I am with Ed on this one. Every yanmar will back hard to port. Makes you look like a hero unless you are trying to go the other way. On Midnight Sun, if I want to back to stb, I have to be going at least two knots for the rudder to overcome the prop torque. And I have a folding prop. I think it would be worse with a fixed prop.
My 1979 Hunter 30 "Summer's Glory" has a Yanmar YSM12 and very significant prop walk to starboard when in reverse.
One thing to mention that hasn't been yet. When in reverse be cautious not to apply too much rudder deflection. I normally spin the helm 180 degrees to turn to port, which is probably about 40 degrees of rudder deflection.
Apply more and you think you would turn faster, but in reality the control surface stalls, slows the boat in reverse and is counterproductive to maintaining control.
Cheers,
Bob
One thing to mention that hasn't been yet. When in reverse be cautious not to apply too much rudder deflection. I normally spin the helm 180 degrees to turn to port, which is probably about 40 degrees of rudder deflection.
Apply more and you think you would turn faster, but in reality the control surface stalls, slows the boat in reverse and is counterproductive to maintaining control.
Cheers,
Bob
Thanks for responding - all good counsel. Going to neutral once underway should work in light conditions and a spring line under tide and wind conditions. Smooth sailing.
H33 in reverse
The H33 take a little practice to move astern and all you need to do is to acknowledge it and embrace it. At the dock, I'll put the helm hard to stbd, put her in reverse and then hope she will back out straight. Any breeze on the stbd beam and will make it another issue. By contrast, if you put the helm hard to port she will pivot spritely. When moving to a new dock I make sure that the backing out manouver will put me in the direction I want to travel. e.g out of the dockage is to stbd.
My boat has the stock 2 blade propeller. It may behave differently with a different prop. I use the behavior to my advantage and use the prop walk to pull my aft into a dock (like a bow thruster except it is in the stern and pulling not thrusting). It allows me to approach the dock with at a slightly higher angle and then put it into reverse to pull the stern to port. Try approaching high and come to a near stop, put you bow in, then back down using your helm to amplify the stern crawl in.
In addition, I've pivoted my 33 boat in a very narrow waterway in Key Largo by knowing this behavior. Knowing that she would crab to port I 1) went (very slowly) from straight to a hard to stbd; I nearly kissed the seawall, 2) hard astern and threw the helm to port, 3) pivoted around, 4) forward, hard to stbd and then out. Just like a 5 point turn on a pickup with an 8ft bed at the grocery store. The best thing about knowing this is that all of the hairy boaters at 5pm on a Friday came out to watch this manouver and then raised their beers to me.
The H33 take a little practice to move astern and all you need to do is to acknowledge it and embrace it. At the dock, I'll put the helm hard to stbd, put her in reverse and then hope she will back out straight. Any breeze on the stbd beam and will make it another issue. By contrast, if you put the helm hard to port she will pivot spritely. When moving to a new dock I make sure that the backing out manouver will put me in the direction I want to travel. e.g out of the dockage is to stbd.
My boat has the stock 2 blade propeller. It may behave differently with a different prop. I use the behavior to my advantage and use the prop walk to pull my aft into a dock (like a bow thruster except it is in the stern and pulling not thrusting). It allows me to approach the dock with at a slightly higher angle and then put it into reverse to pull the stern to port. Try approaching high and come to a near stop, put you bow in, then back down using your helm to amplify the stern crawl in.
In addition, I've pivoted my 33 boat in a very narrow waterway in Key Largo by knowing this behavior. Knowing that she would crab to port I 1) went (very slowly) from straight to a hard to stbd; I nearly kissed the seawall, 2) hard astern and threw the helm to port, 3) pivoted around, 4) forward, hard to stbd and then out. Just like a 5 point turn on a pickup with an 8ft bed at the grocery store. The best thing about knowing this is that all of the hairy boaters at 5pm on a Friday came out to watch this manouver and then raised their beers to me.
So am I seeing here that there are at least two H33s that "walk" to starboard? Still would like to know what engine / transmission combination that you both have. As I alluded to earlier and Blaise mentioned also Yanmars with their RH rotation walk to port.
My 30 with a YSB 12 walks to starboard badly enough if there is any current or wind its time for the boat hook and crew to fend off as we back into our slip.
A trick I learned about the need to turn left to go right etc, is to stand in front of the pedestal rather than behind as is normal and then left is left and right is right. It also helps provide a clear view of where your going and you don't have to steer behind your back.
A trick I learned about the need to turn left to go right etc, is to stand in front of the pedestal rather than behind as is normal and then left is left and right is right. It also helps provide a clear view of where your going and you don't have to steer behind your back.
My 1981 Hunter 33 has a very strong propwalk to port. I had read about it on this forum and was prepared. The first time I tried to dock it stern-first into the slip, I pulled just past the slip in forward (still at a 90 degree angle to the slip with the slip on my port side) and then put her into reverse. She pivoted herself around and went right in; the owners of the boat in the next slip over were nervously watching the newbie and stated "very impressive" as I secured the docking lines. It felt great to pass the test.
I have learned to walk my 27 in either direction, her natural tendancy with the rudder straight is hard to port. I can walk her to starboard by turning the rudder 180 to starboard although the walk to starboard is not as pronounced as the port walk is.
Direction of prop walk is dependant on the direction of the props rotation.
So some go to starboard some to port, I got a deal on a left hand set up for my powerboat. So it just backs different than it used to. If you think its hard to back yours come play with mine for a while and jump in and try yours. Damn, I cant ever get it right. one backs right one left.
So some go to starboard some to port, I got a deal on a left hand set up for my powerboat. So it just backs different than it used to. If you think its hard to back yours come play with mine for a while and jump in and try yours. Damn, I cant ever get it right. one backs right one left.
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Remember that all Yanmars use the same reduction ratio in forward and in reverse, rather like a railway locomotive; so with an application of a left-hand prop the 'forward' gear position may be hooked up to the transmission in reverse and vice versa. Look at the gearbox (I forget which is which) and you may find that's the case.
Props
DianaOfBurlington, are you saying that you can either use a left hand or right hand prop, the only difference would be the shift linkage?
So, if I use a Left-hand prop on an engine that would normally have a Right-hand prop, and put it in 'reverse' it move forward and would be ok?
DianaOfBurlington, are you saying that you can either use a left hand or right hand prop, the only difference would be the shift linkage?
So, if I use a Left-hand prop on an engine that would normally have a Right-hand prop, and put it in 'reverse' it move forward and would be ok?
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