Labor Lament!

[capta]

I had to replace my starter that burned up last year (a DIM job). A)

Can't assume that the yard guys have seen and solved every boat problem that comes to them; some are new-like yours. It's better for them to take time and care on diagnostics rather than to f-up the owner's boat or engine. Anything they break they get to fix for "free." This is not necessarily incompetence--it might be "learning curve."

A) Easy way to test a starter is to buy a starter switch (see pic below) that attaches to the leads in the back and bypasses all but the power leads. Always good to have one aboard anyway in case your starter switch fails. This will isolate the outside problems and then it's either the motor or solenoid or electric feed. If you remove the starter and hook it up to positive and negative (laying it on a towel or such to keep it from moving if you don't have someone to hold it) and this switch, you can see the Bendix gear snap forward as you push the button. That means the solenoid is OK. The motor will turn with a lot of force (which is why it should be held, etc) after the Bendix gear has thrust forward if you have A) good electricity and/or B) it is OK. If it turns slowly or not at all, you either have a bad connection to it, bad/low batteries or it needs to be rebuilt. You shouldn't need any professional help to go through this process if you are a DIY person. If the motor does not do as above, take it to a shop and they will handle the rebuild.

B) I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this statement. If someone is charging me money and saying they are professionals, they had better NOT be charging me $80 an hour for their education. It is their expertise and knowledge that I am paying THEM for (any $15.00 an hour kid can turn wrenches) and if they aren't able to do the diagnostics, then they either shouldn't charge me for their ineptitude, or bring in a professional who knows his stuff and charge me accordingly.
Way too many "marine professionals" are just parts changers these days, changing parts until they finally get the right one, and it costs the customer a great deal of unnecessary money.
I'm sure Mainesail could weigh in on this one with many many tales of what he's had to do to clean up the messes other "professionals" have made before him, not to mention boat owners out of their depth.

 

[Kings Gambit]

B) I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this statement. If someone is charging me money and saying they are professionals, they had better NOT be charging me $80 an hour for their education. It is their expertise and knowledge that I am paying THEM for (any $15.00 an hour kid can turn wrenches) and if they aren't able to do the diagnostics, then they either shouldn't charge me for their ineptitude, or bring in a professional who knows his stuff and charge me accordingly. Way too many "marine professionals" are just parts changers these days, changing parts until they finally get the right one, and it costs the customer a great deal of unnecessary money.

So, let's see...."I've not seen this kind of problem before today. Could be this, or it could be that, etc." (Somebody pays for these guys to get experience somewhere along the way!) You could get: "Sorry, I don't know how to fix this right away-- please take it somewhere else. There's another yard about 50 n. mi. from here you could try. They charge more b/c they have the higher volume." Maybe a kid could turn a wrench @ $15/hr, if s/he knows which one to use.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I'd much rather pay a skilled tradesman $200 an hour to do the job PROPERLY in an hour than an incompetent $25 an hour and 5 days later still have the problem.

If it goes to the best yard in Long Beach you'll pay minimally $125/man-hr regardless of how long it takes to fix it! Very professional!

 

[capta]

So, let's see...."I've not seen this kind of problem before today. Could be this, or it could be that, etc." (Somebody pays for these guys to get experience somewhere along the way!) You could get: "Sorry, I don't know how to fix this right away-- please take it somewhere else. There's another yard about 50 n. mi. from here you could try. They charge more b/c they have the higher volume." Maybe a kid could turn a wrench @ $15/hr, if s/he knows which one to use.

Of course nobody can know everything, but a good service department has experts (specialists) on speed dial as does any other business. Normally yards charge a surcharge on outside contractors so they would have made money, learned a bit AND satisfied the customer. Instead, they have proved themselves to be incompetent, greedy and lost at least this one customer. Waterfront real estate is a bit pricey for this sort of business practice to be advantageous, IMO.
50 miles to a qualified, reputable yard? Did you miss the post above where I mentioned that I used to fly a refer tech from the states to St Thomas and in the end it was cheaper than having lousy work done locally?
When I was between boats in Liquordale, I worked on small sailboats to mega-yachts under a no cure/no pay policy. Being an individual without a shop at my disposal, there were jobs I just could not do, so I have some first hand knowledge of that side of the trade, too. I was booked solid by the brokers, big name and small, and never once had anyone feel that I had taken advantage of them.
By the way, would you pay an auto mechanic to learn his trade on your car? A contractor on your house? Why is it OK on your boat?

 

[capta]

If it goes to the best yard in Long Beach you'll pay minimally $125/man-hr regardless of how long it takes to fix it! Very professional!

And I bet the job gets done right the first time and if there is a problem that they will stand behind their work.

 

[MitchM]

"- Replace engine kill line/switch on M12 Universal engine.
-- if this is a morse cable to a stop solenoid on the diesel engine -- not an unreasonable charge. steps: figure out why engine won't stop with 'kill line.' loose connection at engine end? lack of grease on cable ends? check all along cable length, any sign of heat damage / kinks/ wear on outer shroud? work along cable up into binnacle or cockpit stop assemby-- probably can't see connection between cable and stop without taking apart something-- binnacle? pull switch? take apart check that connection -- good, bad ? does he need new cable, new pull stop? ? if so check size and length stamp on cable, get the correct length, fish new one through, reattach at both ends, check play at stop end and engine end, run engine, be sure stop cable works, reassemble parts, clean up. . five hours, pretty reasonable. engine running badly when in gear -- how old ? how many hrs since exhaust el was changed? -- check off a list from any good diesel book (or ask this board--) rx to replace exhaust el , maybe 10 hrs tops 1 man only once that's diagnosed. that el replacement charge seems very high.(NB i have done both of these jobs solo.i did not add stupid mistakes or beer.

- Reason for boat in the shop was lack of power and engine dying when placed in gear.