Kra-Kem for Recirculating Head

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jun 25, 2011
17
Ericson 36C Milwaukee
I learned today that my 1978 Ericson 36C has a Raritan/Kracor recirculating head system. From what I've read on this forum this is not an ideal situation. However, I'm not in a position to replace anything at this time, so I have to live with what I've got. Can anyone tell me where I get the proper chemicals to flush and charge this system? The holding tank specifies 5 ounces of "Kra-Kem" but a Google search turns up nothing. Any help is appreciated.
Joe
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,918
- - LIttle Rock
There are solutions that are more affordable than you think

That chemical hasn't been available for 25 years. The Thetford Electra-magic is the only recirculator made today...their instructions for it say to fill with water to the fill line, then add their Aqua Chem liquid--available from any RV supply, most boat stores and even Walmart--according to directions on the bottle. (Fwiw, formaldehyde and methanol are the active ingredients in AquaChem. See MSDS here: http://www.thetford.com/Portals/0/pdf/50001.pdf)

However...You will HATE that thing! It only holds about 10 flushes and unless it's pumped out--the only legal way to empty it now--EVERY day, it will STINK...and I mean REALLY stink in the summer heat!

Your recirculating nighmare is simply a Raritan manual toilet (regrettably certain to be completely worn out after 30+ years) and a plastic holding tank like any other plastic holding tank. Rerouting the toilet intake hose to bring in sea water instead of recycling waste from the tank is about all it would take to turn it into a "normal" toilet and holding tank. All the seals, o-rings, gaskets etc in the toilet have to be toast, so you'll also need to put a rebuild kit in it...and in a toilet that old, there's no guarantee that something will break that isn't in the kit--and is no longer available (Raritan discontinued the Compact in favor of the Compact II around 20 years ago, kits are the only parts still available except for any that are also used in toilet still in production), making the $50 cost for the kit a waste of money 'cuz now you'll need a new toilet. Cost: about $100 for hose and kit.

Plan B (I like this one MUCH better): Pull the whole thing out and replace it with a self-contained system...i.e. an "MSD" portapotty. A 5--6 gallon model holds 50-60 flushes--about 3x as many as your recirculator--and doesn't require a toxic chemical soup nor treat you to repeated views of your previous "deposits." Cost: about $150. Check out the Thetford 365MSD.

Plan C: A camping portapotty from Sears or Walmart for about $50 to tide you over till your budget recovers enough to let you do it right. Even that holds more flushes than your recirculator, also without the need for any toxic chemicals...only downsiide: you'll have to carry it off the boat to empty it. It's not elegant, but it IS cheap...maybe even cheaper than the recirculator 'cuz you'd spend that much on AquaKem and pumpouts before the season is over if you keep it. And at least you'll have a legal toilet that won't drive everyone off the boat and/or gas everyone within 50 downwind yards of you.
 
Jun 25, 2011
17
Ericson 36C Milwaukee
Peggy,
Thanks for the quick response. I'm sorry to hear the effectiveness of the recirculating head system is so poor. A friend has suggested that I simply re-plumb the system so that I take lake water in from a through-hull rather than from the hold tank during a flush cycle. It sounds reasonable to me. Any thoughts on that approach?
Joe
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,183
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
You don't have enough capacity. Stick with what Peggie recommended.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,918
- - LIttle Rock
Peggy,
Thanks for the quick response. I'm sorry to hear the effectiveness of the recirculating head system is so poor.
There were several recirculating systems in the late 70s and early 80s as builders and equipment mfrs tried to find cost effective ways to comply with the (then) new marine sanitation laws...not a single one was still being made by 1985. They're that bad. The tanks only hold about 5 gallons, 3 of which are filled up with the initial chemical and water "charge." And there's the odor issue.

A friend has suggested that I simply re-plumb the system so that I take lake water in from a through-hull rather than from the hold tank during a flush cycle. It sounds reasonable to me. Any thoughts on that approach? Joe
That was my first suggestion: "Rerouting the toilet intake hose to bring in sea water instead of recycling waste from the tank is about all it would take to turn it into a "normal" toilet and holding tank. But I also questioned the wisdom of it because of the age of the toilet. Even the best compact manual toilets only have a productive life expectancy of about 10 years...yours is more than THIRTY years old. As I've already said, at the very least it needs a rebuild kit...that's about $50...with no guarantee that the pump cylinder won't crack or something else won't fall apart, and NO parts except a kit are still available for it. Putting ANY money into keeping that toilet is highly risky.

Then there's the matter of the thru-hull for the intake, which I forgot to mention...it's highly unlikely that one was ever installed, 'cuz one of the alleged "advantages" to a recirculating toilet was that it eliminated a hole in the boat (translation: saved the boat builder the cost of a thru-hull and seacock). However, that can prob'ly be overcome by teeing the head intake line into the head sink drain line. If not, a thru-hull, seacock and a vented loop (anti siphon device) for the intake , plus labor, will cost you more than my Plan B above...with no guarantee that you won't also be spending a couple hundred $$ for a new toilet so you can use 'em.

And finally, your holding tank, even if you don't have to half fill it with a chemical "charge" only holds about 10-12 flushes--barely enough to last two people 24 hours aboard.

My "Plan B"--a 5-6 gallon MSD portapotty that's permanently installed and fitted for pumpout--holds 50-60 flushes (you'd need at least a 25-30 gallon tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet) and doesn't require ANY plumbing except a pumpout line and a vent line. The online store here has the Thetford 365 MSD for $163...a few feet of 1.5" and 5/8" sanitation hose is the only other thing you'd need.. $200, you're good to go, all brand new and RELIABLE.

That plan is a bit marginal for a 36' boat...but IMO the perfect interim solution for a cash strapped owner, 'cuz it provides everything that a top of the line toilet and tank would give you, but for VERY little money...you can "upgrade" it after you've managed some economic recovery...meanwhile, you won't be under any pressure to do anything more.

That's my $.02 worth...but it's YOUR boat. You have a bunch of choices: 1. Keep the existing recirculating system...follow the directions to use Thetford AquaKem. 2. Keep the tank and toilet, but replumb it to use raw water to flush the toilet. 3. A NEW self-contained system (MSD portapotty)...and 4. A really cheap portable camper toilet to tide you over through the rest of this season.

Good luck!
 
Jun 25, 2011
17
Ericson 36C Milwaukee
Peggy,
A very detailed response. Thank you. I've already rebuilt the head (an original Raritan PH) and it seems to work well. I will probably try to use the through-hull for the head sink and see if I can get that working as an interim plan since I've already spent my $50 on the rebuild kit. I think my holding tank is closer to 15 gallons, so I will have to see how long that would last. But it looks like your suggestion of the MSD toilet will have to be the end plan.

Thanks!
Joe
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,918
- - LIttle Rock
Thought your toilet was original Raritan Compact...

Or maybe I just jumped to that conclusion 'cuz that's what what was almost always used when they cobbled up a recirculator using a Kracor tank. The original PH was a MUCH better "full size" manual toilet with a productive life expectancy of about 20 years...so if yours saw light use AND you've rebuilt it, there could be a few useful years left in it if you're scrupulous about keeping it lubricated...although you're highly likely to need an air valve for it (a pricy li'l rubber dodad that's not in the kit).

Plus, you have a decent size tank, also unusual for a recirculator 'cuz 5 gallons was commonly used.

Soooo.... 2000 words later (it's SO helpful to finally have ALL the info!), you may actually be able to turn what you have into a decent system after all by just re-routing some plumbing. It's certainly worth going for anyway.
 
Oct 2, 2007
131
- - Millville, NJ
Rebuild Kit for Raritan Original series "Compact" toilets

Peggie and everyone:

The rebuild kits for the original series Raritan "Compact" manual toilets are no longer available. The first of this year, they were flagged for "existing stock only" - meaning that when those that were on hand were gone, there wouldn't be any more made (due to very low demand). As of a couple weeks ago, they're all gone.

The original series Raritan "Compact" manual toilet (manufactured between 1970 and 1994) was identified by a round black knob that pumped it straight up and down, and a little stainless steel flip lever in the front, that was a water shutoff valve.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,918
- - LIttle Rock
Thank you, dear...

I'll make note of it. What's the status of kits availability for the original PH? He just bought one, so they're obviously still available...but are they also consigned to the "existing stock only" category?
 
Oct 2, 2007
131
- - Millville, NJ
Repair Kits for the original PH marine toilet are still available, and likely to remain available for the foreseeable future. I haven't heard any mention of Raritan considering dropping them any time soon. Keep in mind though, that these are only seal and gasket kits (plus joker and flapper valves) - they do not contain any of the "major parts" for the head.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,918
- - LIttle Rock
Be careful doing that...

FYI, I bought my kit from a vendor on e-bay.
Be 100% certain of the mfr's part # to make sure you get the right part when you order from eBay vendors. For instance, there are TWO Raritan PH II kits--one that fits toilets made before 6/92 and a very different one that fits toilets made after 6/92. And then there are the kits for the Raritan Crown Head. I think Vic will agree that naming a particular version of anything "Standard" was a dumb idea...'cuz almost all retailers think that the kit that fits only THAT version of the Crown is the "standard" kit that fits 'em all.

Those are only two examples of how you can end up tearing your hair out trying to make the wrong parts fit if you don't know exactly what to buy.

And btw...don't even THINK of buying a "previously owned" LectraSan, PuraSan or ElectroScan on eBay. You wouldn't believe how many 30 yr old "NIB" units I've seen there. And far too many that sellers have "bench tested" and claim it's working fine when it's only one of the motors that still runs...but actually might have been working before they destroyed the electrode pack by running it dry. Etc...
 
Jun 25, 2011
17
Ericson 36C Milwaukee
Wow, I guess I lucked out. I did get the correct PH rebuild kit for the pre-1982 model. I'll be shopping for hose parts tomorrow...
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,918
- - LIttle Rock
You misread it...

Wow, I guess I lucked out. I did get the correct PH rebuild kit for the pre-1982 model. I'll be shopping for hose parts tomorrow...
There's only one PH. It's the PH II, first introduced in 1981,that needs different kits for pre and post 6/92, versions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.