Knock down

[fred1diver]

hey everyone, I was wondering what does it take to knock down a sailboat?
I'm being overly cautious this year (not sure why) so I'm wondering what it takes to knock a 23 footer trailer sailer down
thanks in advance

 

[Tony_Furst]

Fred, when I had my Catalina 22 I could easily sail on a single reef up to about 27 knots with no big puffs, if we got big puffs it could lay me over if I wasn't really paying attention. My Hunter 23.5 has a lot more sail area and with the water ballast anything above 15-18 knots is starts to feel a bit like it would go in an instant so I usually drop the jib and just use the main. Hope this helps in what you're looking for.

 

[Head Sail]

There was a 22 ft sailboat in a race out here a few years ago. Squall came up with winds in the 20's. Boat was knocked down as I recall and one sailor lost.

 

[jssailem]

Fred. Wave and or wind that over powers the capacity of you boat sit up right on the water.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Head,

That sucks pal. No one should die while enjoying their sport.

Fred,
Knockdowns happen from a myriad of reasons and/or conditions.
The good news, they are few & far-in-between.

I got somewhat knocked down twice but, the difference was not from wind/waves but from two Microbursts.
These were discovered in the early Seventies with the advent of Doppler Radar. They then were able to determine why planes taking off & landing suddenly crashed. Now, airports check Doppler radar first.

Once while under sail & once while motor-sailing & a lone sailor, it happened to me but, there are no witnesses or documented proof that they ever happened but...............they did.

Both times, my boat was happy & moving forward albeit at an extreme angle. It was only when the rub rail & cockpit started flooding that really got my attention. When water rushes into your cockpit yea, it WILL get your attention.

As for knockdowns, stay away from them. When conditions get spirited & you first question your stability, first of all, shorten sail, maybe motor, maybe change course or, all of the above. Never get caught by surprise man. Remember the adage of the prudent navigator............

Boating is dynamic & in this sense, conditions forever change. Just make sure you also change in time.

CR

 

[LeslieTroyer]

When I had my Catalina 22 on the Columbia river - I've sailed reefed main and storm jib in 45+ the windows were under water, spreaders occasionally were dragging in the water, but didn't "knock down". Had to grind winches from the off side as the winches were usually underwater.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Only been knocked down once. In the 70's I had a San Juan 21, which had one of those dangerous pigtails clips mounted on the back stay to hold the boom up (instead of a proper topping lift) I left the slip, hoisted sail and a gust caught me from abeam. Laid the boat over to where water was pouring over the coamings, until finally the boat laid over far enough to lift the rudder out of the water, when the boat rounded up. You cannot pay out a mainsheet if the boom is held to the back stay!!!

I removed the stupid thing that day,, and rigged lift.

When I was a sailboat dealer, on used boats we we selling, we'd cut them off matter of course, and put on a topping lift

 

[Joe]

Only been knocked down once. In the 70's I had a San Juan 21, which had one of those dangerous pigtails clips mounted on the back stay to hold the boom up (instead of a proper topping lift) I left the slip, hoisted sail and a gust caught me from abeam. Laid the boat over to where water was pouring over the coamings, until finally the boat laid over far enough to lift the rudder out of the water, when the boat rounded up. You cannot pay out a mainsheet if the boom is held to the back stay!!!

I removed the stupid thing that day,, and rigged lift.

When I was a sailboat dealer, on used boats we we selling, we'd cut them off matter of course, and put on a topping lift

The pig tail was never intended to be used with the mainsail up. Too bad you learned the hard way. It's just a convenient way of storing the boom when the sail isn't up.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

The pig tail was never intended to be used with the mainsail up. Too bad you learned the hard way. It's just a convenient way of storing the boom when the sail isn't up.

RIGHT!! until you forget to unhook it. But still, once unhooked, sail down, the boom is then dragging down into the cockpit. and in the way. And when you drop msail, it's all over the cockpit again.

A boomkicker, or topping lift is a much more seamanlike arrangement.

 

[capta]

My first thought was, "an inattentive crew". If you are in conditions where you fear a knockdown, someone should have the sheet in hand, not secured to a cleat.
Also, local knowledge is very helpful in avoiding situations like this. Anytime you have a valley coming out of mountains you have a potential for a downdraft which can easily knockdown a sailing vessel. We had one where I grew up. As you sailed from Sausalito towards the Golden Gate, there was a valley that was called 'Hurricane Gulch' by sailors. When the wind was 15 or less everywhere else, one would be rail well underwater as you sailed through the gulch. But you knew it was there and you were therefore prepared for it, so it wasn't a big deal. Anyway, the spreader tips need a good washing every now and then.

 

[Gunni]

...and not having that centerboard down and locked.

 

[druid]

In a small, light boat, things happen FAST. I heard the definition of "knockdown" was having the boom in the water, and if that's the case, I was knocked down a few times in my Venture 22 (similar to Catalina 22). Boom in the water, water coming in the cockpit... but I released the mainsheet and rounded up and popped back up (ALWAYS had the keel bolted down!). Getting knocked down while flying a chute is a different matter: trip the spin halyard, but you'll have a sail in the water being a sea anchor while you're main's flying around... Bad News.
In a boat with little ballast (I include water ballast in here: I just don't LIKE it...), you can be knocked down with as little as 15 knots wind, especially a gust.

druid

 

[RussC]

hey everyone, I was wondering what does it take to knock down a sailboat?
I'm being overly cautious this year (not sure why) so I'm wondering what it takes to knock a 23 footer trailer sailer down
thanks in advance

Sailing downwind through a canyon, with a huge smile because we're really flying, then turning back upwind to head home and BAM. or should I say BAM - BAM - BAM as the side-wires alternately snap like a whip as the mast is tossed from one side to the other as if trying to rip itself off the hull. alternate side rails washed many times over in the process.
I'm not sure how we survived that day, and kept the boat upright wile we made our way to the ramp, but it was a lesson not soon forgotten to always be aware that going down-wind can easily lull you into a false sense of security. the only reason we didn't go over that day was pure and simple dumb luck.