Ok, so I don't know if it was technically a knock down... where is that line anyway? All I know is that it was that my little sloop was wayyyy far over, rail was fully buried and water was inching towards the cockpit. It was a thrilling experience and has given me more faith in the strength and forgiveness of my 22. We were on Jordan Lake here in NC on a windy day with the threat of thunderstorms and I had taken two folks out who had never sailed. Everything was going great and we had all of the 155 out and a full main hoisted. We were close hauled and making good speed when all of a sudden the wind shifted to our beam and kicked up really strong. The lake went from ripples to large waves and I could see the trees on the bank in violent motion. The boat heeled over immediately and for some reason I couldn't head up, perhaps the wind was pushing the hull too strongly? In any case, when I saw that I wouldn't be heading up I loosed the mainsheet and genoa sheets and the boat slowly came back up. It seemed like we were on our side for an eternity though it was probably more like one to two minutes. I was positive at one moment that it was going over but it held at a pretty steep angle for as long as I was comfortable. So, couple of things: 1) As the helmsman I should've paid closer attention to the approaching weather and acted sooner to head up and reef. 2) the little shoal keel 22 is hard to push over! 3) I feel much more comfortable in the boat now knowing that it will take much more to make a big mess. Just thought you guys might want to hear the story. I'm very new to sailing and this was a great experience for me. Don't they say that you don't get experience until after you need it? Oh well, I'll have it next time! Yeah I know, reef before you need it... but honestly, the conditions went from light to pounding in a matter of seconds. Cheers,
Knock Down in my 22
- Thread starter JoshGray
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Lake sailing
Something to consider when lake sailing is that climate and land features around the lake can cause disturbances in the air which result in the wind not flowing parallel to the water. When you mentioned that you couldn't steer out of trouble I immediately thought that perhaps you were pinned down by a downdraft. If the wind is coming from above, it doesn't matter which way you are pointing, the only effective response is to release the sheets. Some people, with more savvy than me, say they can identify a downdraft by the pattern it makes on the water but that is beyond my abilities to describe.
Something to consider when lake sailing is that climate and land features around the lake can cause disturbances in the air which result in the wind not flowing parallel to the water. When you mentioned that you couldn't steer out of trouble I immediately thought that perhaps you were pinned down by a downdraft. If the wind is coming from above, it doesn't matter which way you are pointing, the only effective response is to release the sheets. Some people, with more savvy than me, say they can identify a downdraft by the pattern it makes on the water but that is beyond my abilities to describe.
rudder out of the water
Josh, I sail an O'day 25 on a lake in tennessee. When my boat gets on its ear like that I don'thave much rudder in the water. Its damned near parrell to the water and thus provides little steerage. The comforting the about all that is that when the rudder comes out of the water the boat TENDS to round up on its own. The hardest thing I've tried to do is teach my s/o that when this happens and she gets spooked and climbs up higher toward the coaming with the tiller in her hand she is making things worse! These O'Day's are tough boats. Enjoy! Mike
Josh, I sail an O'day 25 on a lake in tennessee. When my boat gets on its ear like that I don'thave much rudder in the water. Its damned near parrell to the water and thus provides little steerage. The comforting the about all that is that when the rudder comes out of the water the boat TENDS to round up on its own. The hardest thing I've tried to do is teach my s/o that when this happens and she gets spooked and climbs up higher toward the coaming with the tiller in her hand she is making things worse! These O'Day's are tough boats. Enjoy! Mike
You're not there yet
I have the same boat and if you didn't get water flowing in the cockpit then you haven't reached your limit yet. The first time I took my son sailing we had the same experience you did except we had water pouring into the cockpit and the cabin. He loved it! DC
I have the same boat and if you didn't get water flowing in the cockpit then you haven't reached your limit yet. The first time I took my son sailing we had the same experience you did except we had water pouring into the cockpit and the cabin. He loved it! DC
Thanks
Thanks for the kind words. It was really nice to see that it could go that far over without adverse effects. I will feel much more comfortable when this happens next time. I've read that these boats sail best with moderate to no heel. What's the word on this? Thanks,
Thanks for the kind words. It was really nice to see that it could go that far over without adverse effects. I will feel much more comfortable when this happens next time. I've read that these boats sail best with moderate to no heel. What's the word on this? Thanks,
When the winds pick up---
you need to reef your Mainsail, and don't even bother with the Jib or Jennie unless you have roller reefing. The 222 can maneuver very well under a full Mainsail, but may not come about under a reefed Main unless you have "Way On" which is nothing more than inertia and speed forward. Today, I was coming up the river on a run with a 20 knot wind and a reefed Main. Whenever the wind is that strong, you should never try to jibe. There is another way to do it that will get your boom on the other side and it's called "Wearing Ship." It's a term that goes all the way back to the square riggers. To do this, just head up into the wind until you are on a beat and then come about and fall off on the other tack down wind. Make sure that you have plenty of room do do this maneuver just in case she doesn't come about. This happened to me today. She wouldn't come about, but luckily I was able to back-wind my Mainsail by letting off the Main sheet and pushing my boom to Starboard with my left hand. She finally tacked and I was able to go downwind in the direction that I needed to go on the river. Later on I tried to take her into a controlled Jibe by holding on to the Main sheet, and that sail liked to have pulled me overboard as I was trying to let the boom swing over easy. Another thing to keep in mind is that these 222s don't maneuver too well with just the Gennie. They will sail downwind OK, but don't try to come up to a dock under a Gennie. It could be disastrous. Joe
you need to reef your Mainsail, and don't even bother with the Jib or Jennie unless you have roller reefing. The 222 can maneuver very well under a full Mainsail, but may not come about under a reefed Main unless you have "Way On" which is nothing more than inertia and speed forward. Today, I was coming up the river on a run with a 20 knot wind and a reefed Main. Whenever the wind is that strong, you should never try to jibe. There is another way to do it that will get your boom on the other side and it's called "Wearing Ship." It's a term that goes all the way back to the square riggers. To do this, just head up into the wind until you are on a beat and then come about and fall off on the other tack down wind. Make sure that you have plenty of room do do this maneuver just in case she doesn't come about. This happened to me today. She wouldn't come about, but luckily I was able to back-wind my Mainsail by letting off the Main sheet and pushing my boom to Starboard with my left hand. She finally tacked and I was able to go downwind in the direction that I needed to go on the river. Later on I tried to take her into a controlled Jibe by holding on to the Main sheet, and that sail liked to have pulled me overboard as I was trying to let the boom swing over easy. Another thing to keep in mind is that these 222s don't maneuver too well with just the Gennie. They will sail downwind OK, but don't try to come up to a dock under a Gennie. It could be disastrous. Joe
Reefing and Downwind Sailing
Joe, I read your latest post with great interest, since I have been wondering about both sailing with a reefed main and sailing downwind in my Oday 23. This is only my third season, so I haven't yet had a lot of experience in varied conditions. But I have noticed that when I reef the main, she doesn't want to round up in a puff. I have a working jib that can't be reefed or furled (it's hanked on), so when I've sailed in stiff winds, sometimes I've reefed the main and kept the full jib hoisted. I was able to keep relatively good control with this set-up, but her reluctance to round up was very noticeable, since under full sail she rounds up quite readily. I've also sailed with only the main, and I found that I had much less control. I'm guessing you will suggest (as you have in the past!) that I get a roller furler. My question is whether you think I'd notice a big difference in handling with both a reefed main and reefed jib. (I know some furlers aren't designed for reefing, but I'm assuming I'd get one that could be reefed. Maybe that's a poor assumption.) That brings me to my second point. I seem to be having some trouble making good headway when sailing downwind in light or moderate air. Last week I was out in 10-12 knot winds and she was rather spry when we were close-hauled (which was the only point of sail that would get us out of the bay where we moor the boat, since the wind was blowing straight into the bay). But when we fell off the wind for our return, she seemed slow, no matter how I trimmed the sails. The wind did diminish somewhat, but I felt we still should have kept better speed. So I'm wondering whether I'm missing something when sailing off the wind in lighter air. I've played with sail shape and sailed wing-and-wing. But she still seems quite slow when sailing downwind in light winds. Maybe I need a larger headsail for that sort of condition. Any thoughts? Bob
Joe, I read your latest post with great interest, since I have been wondering about both sailing with a reefed main and sailing downwind in my Oday 23. This is only my third season, so I haven't yet had a lot of experience in varied conditions. But I have noticed that when I reef the main, she doesn't want to round up in a puff. I have a working jib that can't be reefed or furled (it's hanked on), so when I've sailed in stiff winds, sometimes I've reefed the main and kept the full jib hoisted. I was able to keep relatively good control with this set-up, but her reluctance to round up was very noticeable, since under full sail she rounds up quite readily. I've also sailed with only the main, and I found that I had much less control. I'm guessing you will suggest (as you have in the past!) that I get a roller furler. My question is whether you think I'd notice a big difference in handling with both a reefed main and reefed jib. (I know some furlers aren't designed for reefing, but I'm assuming I'd get one that could be reefed. Maybe that's a poor assumption.) That brings me to my second point. I seem to be having some trouble making good headway when sailing downwind in light or moderate air. Last week I was out in 10-12 knot winds and she was rather spry when we were close-hauled (which was the only point of sail that would get us out of the bay where we moor the boat, since the wind was blowing straight into the bay). But when we fell off the wind for our return, she seemed slow, no matter how I trimmed the sails. The wind did diminish somewhat, but I felt we still should have kept better speed. So I'm wondering whether I'm missing something when sailing off the wind in lighter air. I've played with sail shape and sailed wing-and-wing. But she still seems quite slow when sailing downwind in light winds. Maybe I need a larger headsail for that sort of condition. Any thoughts? Bob
Reefing and downwind sailing reply
Hi Bob! Some of those are kind of tough to answer because I've never sailed an O'Day 23 so I'm not too familiar with how it can handle under certain conditions and sail configurations. Yesterday, I even forgot that my boat could stall in a crucial tack with a reefed Main that almost landed me on some rocks. I tried to "Wear" her, and come up into the wind, and she went into stays. Then I tried to get her to fall off back on to a run, and she wouldn't do it. Maybe it was because I was towing my kayak and it was acting as a brake. She started heading for shore---toward ROCKS!!! Fortunately, I have this uncanny knack for never losing my head in an emergency. So I headed up into the wind, but this time I let the main sheet off and pushed the boom with my hand to Starboard and she came around to Port. It's like back winding a Jib, only you do it with the Main by pushing against the boom. So try that little trick and it might work for you. Only, always make sure that you have plenty of room when you "Wear Ship". It can be a hair raising experience. The CDI Roller Furlers can be reefed but when the wind picks up I don't even use it for downwind sailing if I'm using my Main Sail. I love the roller furler because it's so easy to operate from the cockpit, and a heck of a lot safer. Going downwind in light airs; Try raising your centerboard. That will get you more speed. Also, try to get more of a pocket in the Main sail to catch the wind. Sailing in tidal areas like the Taunton River, the current is always the strongest right around the third and forth hours of the tide, and even stronger during Spring Tides. Consequently, if your trying to stem a foul current with the wind behind you, it can really slow you down. All I can tell you Bob is, try to experiment and find out what works best for your boat, because they all sail different. Chuck R. may have some thoughts on this. He's been sailing a lot longer than I have. Smooth Sailing! Joe
Hi Bob! Some of those are kind of tough to answer because I've never sailed an O'Day 23 so I'm not too familiar with how it can handle under certain conditions and sail configurations. Yesterday, I even forgot that my boat could stall in a crucial tack with a reefed Main that almost landed me on some rocks. I tried to "Wear" her, and come up into the wind, and she went into stays. Then I tried to get her to fall off back on to a run, and she wouldn't do it. Maybe it was because I was towing my kayak and it was acting as a brake. She started heading for shore---toward ROCKS!!! Fortunately, I have this uncanny knack for never losing my head in an emergency. So I headed up into the wind, but this time I let the main sheet off and pushed the boom with my hand to Starboard and she came around to Port. It's like back winding a Jib, only you do it with the Main by pushing against the boom. So try that little trick and it might work for you. Only, always make sure that you have plenty of room when you "Wear Ship". It can be a hair raising experience. The CDI Roller Furlers can be reefed but when the wind picks up I don't even use it for downwind sailing if I'm using my Main Sail. I love the roller furler because it's so easy to operate from the cockpit, and a heck of a lot safer. Going downwind in light airs; Try raising your centerboard. That will get you more speed. Also, try to get more of a pocket in the Main sail to catch the wind. Sailing in tidal areas like the Taunton River, the current is always the strongest right around the third and forth hours of the tide, and even stronger during Spring Tides. Consequently, if your trying to stem a foul current with the wind behind you, it can really slow you down. All I can tell you Bob is, try to experiment and find out what works best for your boat, because they all sail different. Chuck R. may have some thoughts on this. He's been sailing a lot longer than I have. Smooth Sailing! Joe
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