Kitchen sink drain

[guidera48]

Installing the new sole in the galley I disasembled the sink cabinet. I figured this would be a good time to take a look at the sink drain seacock. I would never be able to get to it again.
Mine looks original and very corroded. The handle just spins whithout any opening or closing effect.
Do I replace it with another bronze gate valve or a ball valve. It seems that a ball valve would allow the flow of sink drainage, however the original is a gate valve and used for 30 years.
What are the chances or unscrewing this valve from it's treaded stem. Slim to none?? I am rounding up my biggest pipe wrench, BFH and sawzall. Will see who wins.
Looking for advise that would make this job easier from experienced boat plumbers, apart from a cold Heineken.

Thanks

 

[Andy1237]

If it were me, I would replace with ball valve. Do a search for "gate valve(s) and look at all the post!

 

[Nelsonhow]

Ball valves are the was to go. I just did the on my 1983 H-30. This is a boat yard project. My trick was to remove the hoses and shoot the thread with HD-40 each week or so since the fall. If the thru hills are no good cut the whole mess off from the top, use a dremmel tool to cit the nut and pop them out. They are probably beddes with 5200 so work carefully so you dont mess up the glass. My thru hills were in good shape so:
1) Have a bucked of water near by and wet down the wood base of the thru hill
2) Get a medium sized monkey wrench and adjust it to fit the base of the valve
3) put on a pair of workers gloves
4) heat the base of the fitting with a plumbers torch till the fitting just start to smoke. (Not red hot, just to warm to touch)
5) You should then be able to spin off the fitting. IF THE thru hull spins the seal with the hull is broken and you'll need to remove it and replace it.
6) Gloves prevent getting burned on the hot pipe.

I just did this on the two 1 1/2" valves (sink and head) and the two 1/2" valves (motor supply and head supply) and it worked great. Keep the hull and the base plate wetted down and keep the water near by. A little heat really works but don;'t go overboard

Don't be fooled into using the ball valves in home dept which are less than 1/2 the price of marine ones. Home Depot valves are brass and a no no for a marine use. I also suggest using heavy duty teflon pipe tape on the threads when you put the new ones on so the valves can come off in the future. Also for the 1/2" valves is was necessary to remove the top of the old gate valves because there was no room to spin them off with the valve stems in place..... good luck

 

[Benny]

Jose that is a job to be done with the boat out of the water. Trying to unscrew the valve will likely break the water seal on the through the hull. I would urge you to replace it as soon as possible and replace it with a ball type valve. I once had one of those sink drain gate valves just break in my hand as I tried closing it and it is not fun. Also replacing the through the hull may be necessary. A good practice which I took up after that incident was to tie a properly sized wooden plug to each through the hull. Use only marine rated valves. Good luck.

 

[sandpiper10471]

Absolutely - go for the ball valve. I really like the delrin ones as they last for years and don't corrode. However, you cannot tie them into a grounding system. That can be either good or bad depending on how you see stray current and lightning. When you do the rest of the renovation, make sure you allow easy access to that valve. You never know when you might need to close it! And as mentioned, tie on a tapered plug.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Good advice above Jose. Are you in the water? Agree with Benny, do the job on the hard. I have looked at that so many times. Fortunately my gate valve still looks like new and works well. But I have always wanted something else there. The problem is the size, can you even get a ball-valve that big? I would opt for a new thru-hull with a seacock. But it would be expensive.

What is that second hose going up to the deck? Nothing like that on my '79. Be sure to put in a nice new sink faucet while you have her opened up like that. We had to do mine while on the Ohio to Florida cruise. Tough getting that sink out and the nuts off of the faucet bottom.

 

[rardiH36]

Interesting on my 1980 H36 is that the head sink thru hull is just above the water line.
The kitchen sink drain instead exits the boat well under the water line only about 2 ft away from the center line. The kitchen sink's valve is a 1.5" marelon ball type which I presume was installed by a P.O. I'm hauling my boat next week. One item on the out-of-the-water list is to pull the handle stem from this marelon valve and replace the o-ring which I hope will stop the slow drip through the handle stem when the valve is the open position. (Doesn't drip when closed.)

 

[Ed Schenck]

Our H37Cs are the same Rardi. The vanity sink exits the middle of the bootstripe on my boat. And it should have a shutoff valve but does not. Lots of gurgling if you forget to put the stopper in.

Our galley sinks might be 1.5" but seems bigger. Never measured it. I guess Jose will let us know. And I think I mistook a handle or something in the picture, there is only one hose going to the deck(water fill for starboard tank).

 

[rardiH36]

Ed:

Also, as yours is, when I bought my boat (gosh its been almost three years already!), the head sink drain hose exited the boat in a straight shot with no shut-off valve. Thanks your comment that this was the original design. I had figured the OEM shut-off valve had corroded shut at some point and a PO simply affixed the drain hose directly to the thru-hull threads and never got around to replacing the valve. Although above the water line, and the sink level maybe 1.5-20. higher than that, I wondered if in high seas and heavy heel conditions, sea water could push its way up into the sink and then slosh around. Also, no safety if the hose came loose. Probably wouldn't sink the boat, but one could wake up with water sloshing around on the floor. The existing thru hull was threaded bronze still in very good condition. So it was a simple matter, and not too expensive, to buy a bronze shut-off valve and install. Being mostly a day sailor that doesn't use the head sink very often, I have the valve is shut all the time.

My wife and I ventured out on the SF Bay yesterday earlier than usual to watch the Plastiki set sail for its trans-pacific voyage to Sydney. Here's a couple of links for pictures and description:

http://news.cnet.com/2300-11386_3-10002869-3.html?tag=mncol
http://www.theplastiki.com/

 

[guidera48]

Thank you all for your imput.
Well, it looks like I will be a plumber for the next week. I checked the water inlet for the comode, tried to unscrew the street elbow affixed to the thru hull and it snapped. So it looks like they are all coming out. I have a 1 1/2 for the galley, 3/4 for the head intake and 3/4 for the motor intake. The head sink drain is plumbed with a 1 1/4 P trap and hose to a thru hull with no valve above the water line.
I also questioned in my mind why the galley does not exit above the waterline?? I do plan to replace the engine intake to a 1" since I plan to add A/C in the future and will need a water supply. Might as well put a T and a second valve there for the future needs.
I did research on the valve on thru hulll set up (as the factory used)VS flanged seacock issues. The NPS vs the NPT issues. Maine sail has a great write up on it. I am going to have to use some of my instruments budget and break down and purchase all new flanged seacocks.
For those of you wondering, I am on the hard. As a matter of fact I parked the boat in my business warehouse parking lot and use a work trailer to store all my tools. This way, I can sneek out after work every day and put in a couple of hours on the boat. I have a sign that says: Don't knock on this hull unless your ears are bleeding. My employees have learned that when I am out, I am realy out. I was able to borrow a rolling ladder from my neighbour, a major lumber retailer that uses them to stock shelves. With this set up, I am able to go up and down with arms full of tools without risking my life.
By the way, I just realised that a major valve manufacturer, Combraco, is located 2 stop lights from my business. I always new they were there, just did not know what they made. I have a friend that works there and I will see if I can get a homie hookup from him on these valves and seacoks..
By the way, Ed. The hoses you see are the water tank intake, water tank vent and bilge drain.
Thank you all

 

[Jim Legere]

Don't make mistakes with thru hulls!

The original gate valves on the 37C should most certainly be replaced. Gate valves are no longer considered adequate by most insurance companies and ABYC. As Ed S. said, this is a job to be done on the hard. Excellent how-to articles here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects. I changed all mine out with Apollo bronze ball valve style thru hull on the advice of my surveyor. Less than $500 for peace of mind. Do it! And if you are just replacing the gate valves with ball valves, MAKE SURE THE VALVES ARE BRONZE (not Brass).

 

[Ed Schenck]

This is my 3/4" thru-hull and seacock replacement for the original 1/2"(picture). I don't have a picture of the installation but there is a T-valve on top that supplies the engine and the A/C. Since you only run one at a time the 3/4" is plenty of supply for my 3YM30 and Mermaid 12K reverse-cycle A/C.